Lab NBN Installed!

[ANSASERVERS]

So Dave..... (Took me ages to find your name - Thanks Twitter hehe) Why is your website hosting in the USA and hiding behind Crapflare... oops i meant CloudFlare

[SeanB]

Simple, cheaper hosting, faster response to the majority of the users ( USA and EU for the most part) and low latency, plus the Cloudflare is there to do caching of the most intensive data blocks.

[X]

With FFTN we urge any customer when they get connected to get a tech out to make sure their line is in the best shape before they take up the service.

This is the problem I've been having with NBN Co. since I got connected a year ago. The copper between me and the node is old, crusty and has issues. It's been better over the last month, but you wouldn't believe the pain I've had to go through just to get them to agree to network remediation. The joints in the cables were so corroded, I would drop line sync constantly, sometimes for a few minutes, sometimes for hours, a few times it just dropped and never came back.

Since replacing the joints, the service has been relatively stable, however there is 800 metres of poor quality copper between me and the node and I can't achieve any better than 30 Mbps downstream line sync. If the lines were of decent quality, it's not out of the realm to expect double what I'm getting now.

But NBN Co. aren't interested. They seem to think a minimum service of 12 Mbps is enough to consider the connection as adequate. My complaint even went all the way up to Brad Whitcomb (NBN Chief Customer Officer - Residential) and the response I got from them when I said 30 Mbps was the best I could get: "That's great news!".

As I mentioned in another thread, if Telstra offered reasonable 4G data pricing, I would disconnect from the NBN tomorrow. Even with marginal reception on my phone (around -105 dBm), I can still pull 33 Mbps down and 40 Mbps up.

 

Expect the NBN uptime (FTTN/FTTC) to be a lot worse than a comparable ADSL2+ connection as well. If the local power goes, so does the power to the cabinet. Unlike ADSL2+ where you can route your own battery backup to the modem to provide enough backup time for your application, you now have to rely on the cabinet to provide the backup for you. This already farcical situation is made even worse by the way they've disconnected all analog phone systems and routed it through a single point of failure.

It is also a shame for all those on cable connections, who already get more than the current dogs breakfast edition NBN.

[ANSASERVERS]

Simple, cheaper hosting, faster response to the majority of the users ( USA and EU for the most part) and low latency, plus the Cloudflare is there to do caching of the most intensive data blocks.

For starters, cloud flare does not make hosting cheaper, if anything it creates more problems then its worth, Their CDN which is why most people use them is outdated and the implications to the SEO side of your side is scary to say the least

With FFTN we urge any customer when they get connected to get a tech out to make sure their line is in the best shape before they take up the service.

This is the problem I've been having with NBN Co. since I got connected a year ago. The copper between me and the node is old, crusty and has issues. It's been better over the last month, but you wouldn't believe the pain I've had to go through just to get them to agree to network remediation. The joints in the cables were so corroded, I would drop line sync constantly, sometimes for a few minutes, sometimes for hours, a few times it just dropped and never came back.

Since replacing the joints, the service has been relatively stable, however there is 800 metres of poor quality copper between me and the node and I can't achieve any better than 30 Mbps downstream line sync. If the lines were of decent quality, it's not out of the realm to expect double what I'm getting now.

But NBN Co. aren't interested. They seem to think a minimum service of 12 Mbps is enough to consider the connection as adequate. My complaint even went all the way up to Brad Whitcomb (NBN Chief Customer Officer - Residential) and the response I got from them when I said 30 Mbps was the best I could get: "That's great news!".

As I mentioned in another thread, if Telstra offered reasonable 4G data pricing, I would disconnect from the NBN tomorrow. Even with marginal reception on my phone (around -105 dBm), I can still pull 33 Mbps down and 40 Mbps up.

 

Expect the NBN uptime (FTTN/FTTC) to be a lot worse than a comparable ADSL2+ connection as well. If the local power goes, so does the power to the cabinet.

Look i don't like the FTTN or FTTC, but there is little both as a user or an ISP that i can do about it. However i do need to correct you that the nodes have batteries in the bottom of them to continue providing connectivity for emergency purposes for up to 12 hours

http://blog.jxeeno.com/wp-content/uploads/fttn_umina_insidenode.jpg

Those orange units are Batteries, the amount of batteries depends on the size of the unit and amount of homes its providing power for

[X]

Look i don't like the FTTN or FTTC, but there is little both as a user or an ISP that i can do about it.

Yes, and the post wasn't directed at you specifically. Just one of my gripes with the NBN.

However i do need to correct you that the nodes have batteries in the bottom of them to continue providing connectivity for emergency purposes for up to 12 hours

http://blog.jxeeno.com/wp-content/uploads/fttn_umina_insidenode.jpg

Those orange units are Batteries, the amount of batteries depends on the size of the unit and amount of homes its providing power for

I am well aware of the battery backups inside the cabinets, but my own battery backup can keep my connection (router, modem, switch, and some local systems that may be on at the time) alive for 35-50 hours (load dependent, and so long as the exchange is operational during the blackout, which most of the time it is). If you can beat that with the orange batteries (especially after they have suffered from degradation by heat from equipment and weather conditions) then I will be impressed.

I also have complete control over the backup system, and the batteries are stored in a more suitable environment than inside a cabinet outside with what appears to be no thermal insulation from the outside world. And, unlike the government agency or contractor tasked to maintain these things, I can maintain my own backup properly. Would have been less of an issue if they went to the original optical splitters.

That's also just the internet connection. I still have phones that are powered from the phone line itself. So long as the exchange is up, the phones still work during the blackout.

[ANSASERVERS]

Look i don't like the FTTN or FTTC, but there is little both as a user or an ISP that i can do about it.

Yes, and the post wasn't directed at you specifically. Just one of my gripes with the NBN.

However i do need to correct you that the nodes have batteries in the bottom of them to continue providing connectivity for emergency purposes for up to 12 hours

http://blog.jxeeno.com/wp-content/uploads/fttn_umina_insidenode.jpg

Those orange units are Batteries, the amount of batteries depends on the size of the unit and amount of homes its providing power for

I am well aware of the battery backups inside the cabinets, but my own battery backup can keep my connection (router, modem, switch, and some local systems that may be on at the time) alive for 35-50 hours (load dependent, and so long as the exchange is operational during the blackout, which most of the time it is). If you can beat that with the orange batteries (especially after they have suffered from degradation by heat from equipment and weather conditions) then I will be impressed.

I also have complete control over the backup system, and the batteries are stored in a more suitable environment than inside a cabinet outside with what appears to be no thermal insulation from the outside world. And, unlike the government agency or contractor tasked to maintain these things, I can maintain my own backup properly. Would have been less of an issue if they went to the original optical splitters.

That's also just the internet connection. I still have phones that are powered from the phone line itself. So long as the exchange is up, the phones still work during the blackout.

Dude this isnt a competition of who has better batteries.... I corrected an incorrect statement where you posted that during a black out there would be no power which is totally incorrect. The implications of if the government did that would be mind boggling. 

[madires]

Deutsche Telekom skimped on battery backup in their outdoor cabinets. And they're migrating all customers from the ISDN based telephone network to SIP at the moment, i.e. they're installing MSANs with FXO cards for those who have POTS only. Everyone else with internet access simply gets SIP directly (VoIP router). During a power outage nobody will be able to use their landline anymore. As an early adopter I had the pleasure to experience that several times already. Minimize costs and maximize profits, as always.

The issue with youtube Dave showed in his video isn't suprising. The ISPs/telcos down under are used to exorbitant tarifs and with the NBN  they have to compete with themselves. The solution is to create a two class internet access to keep traffic costs low for NBN and to give customers an incentive to upgrade to the more expensive first class.

[nctnico]

So long as the exchange is up, the phones still work during the blackout.

Forget about that. The telephone system will go down along with the electric grid if the shit hits the fan. But who are you going to call anyway? Emergency services will be too busy already. Over here they recommend to stock non-perishable food and water.

[Augustus]

Deutsche Telekom skimped on battery backup in their outdoor cabinets. And they're migrating all customers from the ISDN based telephone network to SIP at the moment, i.e. they're installing MSANs with FXO cards for those who have POTS only. Everyone else with internet access simply gets SIP directly (VoIP router). During a power outage nobody will be able to use their landline anymore. As an early adopter I had the pleasure to experience that several times already. Minimize costs and maximize profits, as always.

We've had three (3) power outages in the past 20 years, the last one, x-mas 2015, was the hardest, lasting almost one and a half hour. The other two maybe 10 minutes each... UPS systems are not selling very well... 

[ANSASERVERS]

So long as the exchange is up, the phones still work during the blackout.

Forget about that. The telephone system will go down along with the electric grid if the shit hits the fan. But who are you going to call anyway? Emergency services will be too busy already. Over here they recommend to stock non-perishable food and water.

My sentaments exactly. If you have no power you have much better things  to worry about then if you have a telephone or internet. Our depenace on technology is a joke

[Mr. Scram]

My sentaments exactly. If you have no power you have much better things  to worry about then if you have a telephone or internet. Our depenace on technology is a joke

Having a phone line is nice for emergencies. Something like a heart attack or frail people stuck in an elevator is what I would call a legitimate worry.

[ANSASERVERS]

My sentaments exactly. If you have no power you have much better things  to worry about then if you have a telephone or internet. Our depenace on technology is a joke

Having a phone line is nice for emergencies. Something like a heart attack or frail people stuck in an elevator is what I would call a legitimate worry.

Too true... however more and more of us are walking around with mobile phones. My grand parents even use mobiles rather then the landline now days

Some of the new Schneider electric elevators have pstn and mobile emergency call buttons... nifty as!

[Electro Detective]

If I'm going to be stuck in an elevator during a zombie apocalypse blackout, 

I'd prefer to have my crusty old toolbox with me (and a Fluke or two     hey, gotta look Pro, even when shtf ) 

and not rely on the phone 

I reckon the people stuck in there with me would soon agree with my 'self service'   

once they realize their phones have 'no service'   


FWIW I won't need to watch a Youtube video on the phone to sort out the stuck elevator,

it won't be pretty but we'll get out 

[EEVblog]

Maybe not entirely related, but I was wondering why Dave has the lab and a separate office. Wouldn't it be easier and more cost effective to consolidate the two into one?

It's complicated.

[coppice]

Nice!  We got FTTH here years back, was super excited.  Surprised we even got it here at all TBH.  Seems that often only the big cities get the good stuff.  Ours uses same/similar equipment, made by Alcatel-Lucent. In theory it should be able to do gigabit asymmetrical (as in, the equipment itself supports it).  My ISP provides up to 250mbps down, I'm on a 50/30 plan.  The way it was explained to me, they have about 64 customers on a single strand of fibre from the central office, then there is a neighborhood cabinet that splits it passively (like a prism of sorts) into different wavelengths going to different customers in that area. The ONT itself has no laser, it actually bounces back the light to the CO to transmit, this is part of why it's asymmetrical, I guess the way it works is there is a time slot for download and one for upload. But not 100% sure.  I was not involved in the setup but I kinda saw all the equipment go in as I work in the CO and I always like to poke my nose in that stuff and ask questions. 

The system itself isn't asymmetric. That's just the way the service was offered to you. We had the same system fro several years with a full 1Gbps in both directions, sustainable all day and night. Now I've just moved to the third world (the UK) and the best I can get is 1Mbps. Its awful.

[Cerebus]

The system itself isn't asymmetric.

You can't say that without knowing exactly which transmission standard is being talked about. Some of them are inherently asymmetric, some aren't.

The first 1 Gb/s fibre to the home standard was multi-drop, I can't remember the standard number off the top of my head, and had an inherently asymmetric character - it was, rather foolishly IMHO, baked into the scheme used. It used a statistically multiplexed broadcast downstream (i.e. diversity) and a time division multiplexed upstream. So, if no one else was using it you could get the full 1 Gb/s downstream, but you were limited to your timeslot for the upstream, something like 10 - 25 Mb/s depending on quite how many stations were on a single fibre loop.

That standard didn't get much of an uptake and I suspect it was because even the telcos realised that it was a compromise too far and would be too limiting before its natural replacement time came around, even though it was comparatively cheap. The cost, after all, is in all the digging*, not the fibre itself, and it's foolish to go for a standard that has minimising fibre usage at its heart and encourages you to lay a very inflexible multi-drop fibre structure that won't likely be useful for future schemes.

Most of the FTTH/FTTP that's being rolled out now uses some form of passive optical network that's essentially a cut-down version of the wavelength division multiplexing that's been around on the 'big boy's kit' for more than 20 years.

*Back when I used to actually have to worry about paying for this stuff, it cost about £500 a metre to bury a duct under a metalled road, about £100 a metre in a soft verge. The few pounds a metre for the actual fibre is almost noise against those figures.

[madires]

We've had three (3) power outages in the past 20 years, the last one, x-mas 2015, was the hardest, lasting almost one and a half hour. The other two maybe 10 minutes each... UPS systems are not selling very well... 

Lucky you! In my area we have about 5 short outages during summer caused by thunderstorms. Most outages are just a few minutes, but the DSLAMs need 7 minutes to be operational again. We also have a few undervoltage events each year. Therefore I prefer to have a nice UPS for my SOHO data center.

[X]

So long as the exchange is up, the phones still work during the blackout.

Forget about that. The telephone system will go down along with the electric grid if the shit hits the fan. But who are you going to call anyway? Emergency services will be too busy already. Over here they recommend to stock non-perishable food and water.

My sentaments exactly. If you have no power you have much better things  to worry about then if you have a telephone or internet. Our depenace on technology is a joke

Upon reflection, I mostly agree with that sentiment. At least a phone line that is separate from the Internet would be handy, and those copper wires have been working well for this purpose for over a century. I would like to see a modern version of the old crank-the-magneto phones. Well, if need be there's always satellite phone.

I was mainly thinking about minor/localised blackouts though, not apocalypse-grade or flood conditions. I can see this affecting businesses or mission-critical systems that need to be online with a high uptime.
I agree our dependence on tech is a joke now, but let's be honest, we've been dependant on technology since before the invention of the wheel. Perhaps this NBN may not be so bad after all.

[Halcyon]

At least in Australia we can pretty much rely upon the mobile network to be available and most people have a mobile phone. Even during extended power outages, cell towers continue to function and if you're with Telstra and/or anywhere near civilisation, there is enough cell overlap so than even if one small one goes down, there are at least another 2 or 3 to cover the hole. Even if you don't have an active mobile service, any old phone provided it supports 3G or newer will be able to call emergency services without a SIM card.

Having had a digital mobile phone since around 1998, I can probably count in minutes the number of times the network has not been accessible due to congestion or outages. Even during new year's eve celebrations in the middle of Sydney, I can still make a call in/out using my phone.

I don't think losing the old copper network is as bad as people make it out to be. For several years, companies which service and maintain lifts (elevators) have been upgrading emergency phones from PSTN to mobile and/or VoIP services. Same goes with remotely monitored fire alarm and sprinkler systems. Even if there are systems out there that haven't been upgraded, will generally warn people with an alert that there is no longer an active telephone line connected.

Those in South Australia would probably know better than anyone when the entire state was blacked out. Did you guys lose mobile services?