LED bulbs experience? Do they last as declared?

[nardev]

I came across this article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2546363/The-great-LED-lightbulb-rip-One-four-expensive-long-life-bulbs-doesnt-like-long-makers-claim.html

Basically saying what i felt for a long time. LED bulbs is not as good as marketed.

1. i have feeling that intensity is decreasing over the time
2. i still couldn't find any LED bulb that gives as pleasant light as halogen bulbs.

Halogen bulbs maybe spend the most energy in average but i would rather save energy in heating and cooling than my eyes.

What is your experience, opinion with lights and what kind of bulb do you prefer ?

[Fsck]

isn't it more of the case of manufacturers cheaping out like they usually do?

[NiHaoMike]

Go with good quality LEDs. Granted, "cheap" LEDs do last if you derate them, but they do sometimes have issues with poor spectrum.

[nardev]

isn't it more of the case of manufacturers cheaping out like they usually do?

probably..

i love my eyes a lot... so i keep looking for the artificial light closest to natural...?? so far, only halogen bulbs.

[cimmo]

I buy cheap eBay sourced Chinese LED lamps, 240v B22 (or E27 with adaptors) and 12V MR16 fittings. Almost the entire house is lit this way. No single lamp has cost me more that about $9AUD total.

For general room lighting the cool white are very harsh looking and avoided, warm is better. OTOH, cool/pure white in a focused fitting is good for detail work. Unfortunately it seems that the production process resulting in 'binning' of the ideal colour temperature (~4500K) means that the cheaper LED lamps do not have chips of this colour temperature. You can get a good light quality by using an E27 double adaptor with a mix of one cool (~6000K) LED lamp and one warm (~3500K) lamp. This also goes a long way to filling the gap in spectral response of the phosphors and means that the heat dissipation for the same equivalent light level is split over two lower rated lamps.
And it makes an interesting looking chandelier.

The higher power LED lamps (>~7 watts?) seem  to be less reliable because of heat related issues. I had one 9W (3x3W) focused LED lamp fail because the manufacturer cheaped out and omitted the screws holding the LED package to the heatsink. It was only held in place by the plastic lens assembly and over time it melted this plastic, opening a gap between the LED plate and the heatsink. Anyway, it only cost about $6 and it is repairable for a cost of $2.

But I have had several in normal intermittent service for 3+ years with no failures or degradation. One is on permanently (I have a kitchen with one very small window) and has been running for nearly 2 years now and at 3W it costs nearly nothing.

[Fsck]

they usually use cheapest possible LEDs and the cheapest possible driver circuit as well as the bare amount of heatsinking required.

[David_AVD]

I've started replacing the lamps at home with LED types.  It's taken a while to find suitable units for downlights, ceiling fans and range hood.

As for colour temperature, I hated the look of the 4000K types.  The 2700K ones are a little too yellow for my liking so I settled on 3000K units and am happy with them.

I plan to keep track of any failures as part of a blog page I'm going.

[nardev]

So far it seems like nobody is using halogen bulbs? I simply can't make any combination to replace my 300W lamp, reflecting light from ceiling.

[cimmo]

So far it seems like nobody is using halogen bulbs? I simply can't make any combination to replace my 300W lamp, reflecting light from ceiling.

What about this?
In the second very stopped down image you can see the colour temperature mix.

[JonnyBoats]

From what I understand a major contributor to shortened service life is heat. Generally the screw-in LED bulbs sold here in the USA as replacements for traditional bulbs are designed to operate with their base down and in free air.

If you operate them otherwise, life may be greatly diminished.

[CaptnYellowShirt]

From what I understand a major contributor to shortened service life is heat. Generally the screw-in LED bulbs sold here in the USA as replacements for traditional bulbs are designed to operate with their base down and in free air.

If you operate them otherwise, life may be greatly diminished.

That's what I've heard too. Heat kills.

[Fsck]

From what I understand a major contributor to shortened service life is heat. Generally the screw-in LED bulbs sold here in the USA as replacements for traditional bulbs are designed to operate with their base down and in free air.

If you operate them otherwise, life may be greatly diminished.

That's what I've heard too. Heat kills.

correct. it's their failure of enough heatsinking. It's the cause of their crappy service life.

[SeanB]

For a long time i have been using a 160W mercury blended lamp for lighting, and changed over to 70W metal halide lighting as an alternative. Then bought some 7/9W Chinese LED lamps, and threw the casing away and used a bigger heatsink ( old Intel P4 stock circular coolers without the fan) to build them into a lamp housing. That now runs at barely above body temperature, as opposed to the original running at 90C.

I have some 5mm near UV leds running at 10mA, and after 6 months of running 24/7 they are barely illuminating, really bad lumen degradation. Now looking for some 3W single chip dies, I need to make a decent UV torch. I am modifying some old Surefire torches ( anybody want the incandescent lamp blocks out of them, still work as the battery dies) to fit the LED pucks in when I find some, along with the 18650 cell and a protection circuit and led driver.

[miguelvp]

The problem is not the LEDs, it's the circuitry they use to drive it. Same thing as the cold cathode CFLs, something in the board gives before the actual cold cathode tube. (I have a night stand lamp running on batteries with spare CFL tubes sans the circuit board).

[Kjelt]

Each led bulb/fixture should have a decent spec with it not only x hours but also how many times switching on/off (capacitor issue) and the statistical values which look something like in the quote below. All reputable led firms have these numbers on their product, in the catalogue or box. If a led seller does not have these numbers you can already know they have no quality dept. or any quality testing/assurance.

I can tell from experience that good leds with proper electronics and fixture (cooling) can easily do 25000 hours. The pro led lighting for offices sold today in 60cmx60cm tiles as for instance could be seen in the Light and Building in Frankfurt use low/medium power leds mounted on a normal pcb (not aluminium pcb) and do not even have to be cooled that much more then a simple thin alu fixture plate.

So to be short it is the same as with all other stuff Garbage In Garbage Out.

Life time, lumen maintenance and failure rate

The L value: the light output of an LED Module decreases over the lifetime, this is characterized with the L value. L70 means that the LED module will give 70 % of its initial luminous flux. This value is always related to the number of operation hours and therefore defines the lifetime of an LED module.
As the L value is a statistical value and the lumen maintenace may vary over the delivered LED modules.

The B value defines the amount of modules which are below the specific L value, e.g. L70B10 means 10 % of the LED modules are below 70 % of the inital luminous flux, respectivly 90 % will be above 70 % of the initial value.

The C valueThe percentage of failed modules (fatal failure).

The F value is the combination of the B and C value. That means for F degradation complete failures are considered, e.g. L70F10 means 10 % of the LED modules may fail or be below 70 % of the initial luminous flux.

[EEVblog]

Halogens have an ideal CRI (Colour Rendering Index) because of the black body radiation due to the heating of an element. LEDs will never match this, but the good ones can come close.
But this is usually only an issue in very specific studio photography or such work.

[brabus]

So far it seems like nobody is using halogen bulbs? I simply can't make any combination to replace my 300W lamp, reflecting light from ceiling.

Here I am!
In my house you can find only halogen bulbs (excluding a neon in the flat bathroom light), including a dimmable 300W light in my room.

You know what? I think it is more ecological -at the moment- to keep using normal bulbs, than buying cheap LEDs that will become dangerous trash in matter of months (if not weeks).

A bulb is... a bulb. When it dies, it's plainly glass and a bit of metal -> almost no hazard for the environment.
Do we want to consider also the production costs (in terms of energy)? I think that normal bulbs are still invincible also regarding this aspect.

So, in my properties: beware of LEDs! The only one you can see are on the standby light of my TV and stereo.

[Fsck]

So far it seems like nobody is using halogen bulbs? I simply can't make any combination to replace my 300W lamp, reflecting light from ceiling.

Here I am!
In my house you can find only halogen bulbs (excluding a neon in the flat bathroom light), including a dimmable 300W light in my room.

You know what? I think it is more ecological -at the moment- to keep using normal bulbs, than buying cheap LEDs that will become dangerous trash in matter of months (if not weeks).

A bulb is... a bulb. When it dies, it's plainly glass and a bit of metal -> almost no hazard for the environment.
Do we want to consider also the production costs (in terms of energy)? I think that normal bulbs are still invincible also regarding this aspect.

So, in my properties: beware of LEDs! The only one you can see are on the standby light of my TV and stereo.

ecological? probably.
economical? not for me. so much power wasted as heat, which requires me to pay to cool for ~5 months of the year. I'm a cold guy, about 20C is the perfect room temperature for me.

[Kjelt]

@brabus
you would probably still use candles if you were living in the 1930's 

[leona912]

Some cheap really can not last as advertised. I bought some GU 10 bulbs from Amazon one month ago, and now they just burned out!!
But some quality LED lights from Philips and Cree are working so well, bought them like 15 months ago.
And Yesterday, I just bought a LED ceiling light here Link removed, anyone familiar with this seller, just my first try, will update will I received it!
My first post, so correct if I am wrong.

[eKretz]

I have just changed almost every light bulb in my house to Cree LED bulbs. The new ones are outstanding. I have several different power levels - and they also have one that has CRI of 93 IIRC called the TW.

[kripton2035]

I bought cheap gu10 3w leds (10€ for two) two years ago.
I bought some 30 of each to replace in the whole house
I still did not have any of them that failed.
the price I paid for them has been paid in the electricity bill in a year or so...
so far not any change in light intensity noticed.
I still have some big dimmable halogens (100W+) that I can't find any led that has the same amount of light at a reasonable price
I found a 20w philips dimmable that could fit, but at 50€ the light it will never pay itself back.

[Kjelt]

I still have some big dimmable halogens (100W+) that I can't find any led that has the same amount of light at a reasonable price

Retrofit ledlamps are for now going to be a problem for 100W and higher wattages.
If you look at complete fixtures there are several that equal and beat the required lumens using multiple ledlamps.
Also a lot of conventional lamps have a 360 degrees spread of their light which a lot of retro led lamps do not have. It is a question for yourself if you need that kind of light obfuscation or that you are better suited with less light but more focussed on an area where led really shines. I myself have added a room to my house and installed 12 times 7,5W led fixtures spread in the ceiling. It is enough light and there are no more shadows in that space. Just look at it from a fresh start with new ideas instead of looking back and finding something compatible with the older fixtures.

[grumpydoc]

I have quite a few 9W GU10 LEDs - generally the ones which are the same size as a normal GU10 halogen. These are a good replacement for a 50W halogen in terms of brightness but they are universally crap. It always seems to be the driver board but they just blow themselves up.

On the bright (sorry) side I do have a lot of high wattage LEDs mounted in threes on circular boards to do something with.

[bookaboo]

Good quality LED lighting pays back fairly quickly if you are using the light 4+ hours every day (the math isnt hard). As for the "oh my eyes like xyz....", I can't say I've ever noticed it myself, no doubt the spectral analysis does show a much better spread for incandescent but I've yet to hear anyone say anything less than positive about the installs we did. As with other new technologies (renewables, electric cars etc.) some people have decided they are against it just for the hell of it instead of making an objective analysis.

As with anything you get what you pay for, a lot of people seem to think that LED bulbs are just that... a big LED. LEDs are supposed to be great and last forever, then in come the wun hungs built down to the penny and ruining the reputation.
I've just installed a load of industrial lighting for two customers, so I've researched the subject in quite a bit of detail. It gets king of annoying when you hear someone spoof off "LED lights are crap, my friend had downlights that failed after 3 month", yeah they did because he sorted by price on ebay.
 
Firstly there's the LED chip itself, everyone knows to look for CREE, Philips, Samsung, Bridgelux (Epistar is actually very good as well). The problem is that it's very easy for a seller or manufacturer to just claim they are using CREE when really its some no-name junk.
Epistar have a service where you can send them LEDs and they will verify that they are genuine, CREE refuse to do this (very strange) and the others I haven't tried.
Crappy LEDs give a much lower lumens per watt, there was no comparison in the genuine Epistar floodlights that we got against the "cheaper" ones from both the local wholesaler and B&Q.

Next is the quality of the driver, I dont need to explain this to any of you but there are also safety considerations. Some of the cheaper lights are just plain dangerous. The only way to verify this is a teardown, even then you will always find no name components so are at the mercy of the manufacturer.

Finally the construction quality, there are hundreds of manufacturers of these bulbs all working off common designs. I've seen some incredibly shitty build quality and some that's quite impressive.



So avoid ebay and amazon altogether, do some math and stick to a reputable supplier that offers a 3-5 year warranty. You cant really go wrong from there.