'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts

[tom66]

The film "Get Out" is a good commentary on the "white liberal who just wants to help" and how transparent it truly is.  (The creepy family, well, I won't spoil the film, but they are of this type.)

The ones who say "I voted for Obama twice, I did my part!" without actually understanding the genuine struggles that someone who is black goes through.  They are almost more dangerous than actual racists who are generally obvious and avoidable.  They can be dangerous because they believe that all they need is token gestures rather than, say, donating to charities to improve the situations for children of single parents or mentoring someone from an underprivileged background who wants to get into the industry but maybe lacks the exact skills.

[Simon]

The problem with the left is that think every is intelligent and will listen to reason, the right realize that there are not very many intelligent people and so pander to the ignorant masses and win elections.

You are fitting quite all off the stereotypes as an ex-green party member saying that the left assumes everyone is Intelligent and listens to reason and ending the same sentence with that the masses are Ignorant and vote for the pandering Right without realizing the Irony in that.

Are you by any chance also driving a Porsche?

No i don't drive a Porsche. In an ideal world you could explain facts to people and they would understand what you are trying to tell them, agree and behave accordingly. But people have ego's and don't like to be wrong. I don't mind being wrong, i will work with the information I have until I am given better information and will be happy to change based on that. Bu most people won't change which is why society changes so slowly and why new things do not take off quickly.

Typical example is electric cars. Petrol heads poo poo them as being low performance, but if they actually drive one many are convinced by their obvious superior performance. Just telling them is not enough. But that sort of quick demo of look how much better "this" way of doing it works is not possible in most other things and people cling on to the past and what they know as they fear change, not because of the change but it challenges their current ideas and this is stupid.

[tggzzz]

Before anybody thinks of making a substantive response to this post of magics, consider Dave's point in
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/master-and-slave-tech-terms-face-scrutiny-amid-anti-racism-efforts/msg3104760/#msg3104760

Open Sores is a cult
And it's mostly a left-leaning cult, so no surprise.
<snip>

[donotdespisethesnake]

Before anybody thinks of making a substantive response to this post of magics, consider Dave's point in
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/master-and-slave-tech-terms-face-scrutiny-amid-anti-racism-efforts/msg3104760/#msg3104760

Open Sores is a cult
And it's mostly a left-leaning cult, so no surprise.
<snip>

Yeah, magic is obviously here for the trollz, not worth replying to.

[donotdespisethesnake]

The problem with the left is that think every is intelligent and will listen to reason, the right realize that there are not very many intelligent people and so pander to the ignorant masses and win elections.

You are fitting quite all off the stereotypes as an ex-green party member saying that the left assumes everyone is Intelligent and listens to reason and ending the same sentence with that the masses are Ignorant and vote for the pandering Right without realizing the Irony in that.

Politics but... there is a general opinion that if people don't appreciate a "rational" argument then they must be stupid. I think all sides have that. However, parties which don't label voters as stupid have generally been more successful.

[EEVblog]

It has become a "loyalty test", people are forced to take sides. Either you swallow the kool-aid, or be branded the "enemy".

As a high profile person who has been on the receiving end of attempted "cancel culture" I can assure everyone it is 100% correct, even in the electronics industry. The only way to avoid it is to have zero opinion on anything, ever, on any platform.
No nuance of opinion is allowed.
Context does not matter.
Rational discussion and debate is not allowed.
Jokes and taking the piss out of identity politics is not allowed.
You are either stridently for "the cause" or you are literally branded the enemy.

And the funny thing is they they will turn on each other without a moment's hesitation. You can be the most outspoken and strident modern SJW with all the right talking points for years. But dare to have one nuanced opinion that "they" don't like, and you are forced to grovel and appologise under threat of "cancellation".
Dare to have a friend or colleague that is against modern identity politics? They'll attack and harraess you to end your relationship/partnership/electronics podcast with that person.
It is straight out bullying and intimidation to appease them and shut up. The entire system is toxic to the core.
A certain electronics podcast that many people have loved for the last decade was almost destroyed because of this culture. But I won't discuss that here.

It is predominately centered around Twitter and Americans though. Avoid Twitter and you avoid 90% of it all.
But now you get organisations that should have no place getting involved in politics feel they have to virtue signal and take action, thus bombarding people who ordinarily didn't care for any of this, into being exposed to this rubbish.

[madires]

I've been trawling through comments trying to find out if POC have ever expressed discomfort with the terms master/slave. The two I found both said it is stupid and insulting to their intelligence. It really seems to be a campaign by white allies presuming to know what POC think. It has become a "loyalty test", people are forced to take sides. Either you swallow the kool-aid, or be branded the "enemy".

You can call "white allies presuming to know what POC think" white supremacists. And they also associate slaves with black people, which is racist. May we conclude that the OSHWA is promoting racism and white supremacy?

[SerieZ]

The problem with the left is that think every is intelligent and will listen to reason, the right realize that there are not very many intelligent people and so pander to the ignorant masses and win elections.

You are fitting quite all off the stereotypes as an ex-green party member saying that the left assumes everyone is Intelligent and listens to reason and ending the same sentence with that the masses are Ignorant and vote for the pandering Right without realizing the Irony in that.

Politics but... there is a general opinion that if people don't appreciate a "rational" argument then they must be stupid. I think all sides have that. However, parties which don't label voters as stupid have generally been more successful.

It is dogmatic thinking and the root of many evil.
I wish people could just stop throwing blanket statements around like that, especially people who are decent otherwise.

It is not only "Right Bad Left Good" statements - Same goes for statements like "Open Source is a leftist Cult" btw - Decent people need to open their mouth and tell the loonies to fuck off or else you will go the way of the Pirate Party in Germany.

Ignoring the Issue wont make it go away.

[John B]

Apropos:

As a high profile person who has been on the receiving end of attempted "cancel culture" I can assure everyone it is 100% correct....

What/when/how did this happen? Mind you I'm not on twitter or basically any other social media, so it's quite likely this went totally under my radar.

[EEVblog]

In an ideal world you could explain facts to people and they would understand what you are trying to tell them, agree and behave accordingly. But people have ego's and don't like to be wrong. I don't mind being wrong, i will work with the information I have until I am given better information and will be happy to change based on that. Bu most people won't change which is why society changes so slowly and why new things do not take off quickly.

Unless there is political or social power as the prize and then people and ideas can indeed change very quickly!
It usually doesn't take people long to learn there is social currency and power in appearing to be virtuous and support causes and jumping on bandwagons. In the case of modern identity politics, these people usually don't learn they are right, they don't take the time to reason it out, they simply feel they are right. When you get that dopamine hit and instant reward for virtue signalling, people can change on a dime and be taken advantage of by groups, often to their eventual detriment.

[EEVblog]

Decent people need to open their mouth and tell the loonies to fuck off or else you will go the way of the Pirate Party in Germany.
Ignoring the Issue wont make it go away.

Unfortunately decent and rational people with any sort of power or reach risk being "cancelled" if they do that. So it's easier to either capitulate or say nothing.

[donotdespisethesnake]

More irony...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53245501

The head of human resources at sportswear giant Adidas has resigned amid a row over the firm's corporate culture and lack of diversity.

Karen Parkin is a British citizen who had worked at Adidas for more than 20 years.

Her exit follows protests by Adidas staff over a comment she reportedly made at an internal meeting last year.
...
Ms Parkin, who is leaving the role with immediate effect, was the only woman on the company's board.

Her resignation means that the company's executive board is now made up entirely of white men. Adidas has previously said that it would take action to address issues of diversity and inclusion.

Shoot the messenger, but still no real change.

[EEVblog]

What/when/how did this happen? Mind you I'm not on twitter or basically any other social media, so it's quite likely this went totally under my radar.

I don't want to dredge it up. But yes, it's a Twitter thing.
The interesting thing is, not one person, not a single one, of the outraged twitter mob ever contacted me and asked for clarification.
They don't want your explanation, they have instantly made up their mind you are *insert ism's here*.
I was branded enemy of the state based on out-of-context or simply misinterpreted tweets that were shared by several high profile electronics people and that was that, it was cool to pile on and attack me and get me cancelled.
I simply ignored them and told them to bugger off until they started attacking and harassing people I knew. Twitter is toxic to the core.

Interestingly, the exact same tweet that sparked it all, on Instagram was met with zero outrage.

Please don't anyone derail this thread with talk of that here, I probably shouldn't have bought it up. But it is important to know that cancel culture exists in the electronics industry.
BTW, not that it worked on me, you can revel in the fact that it was a complete failure
Unfortunately there was some collateral damage to other people associated with me.

[coppice]

And the funny thing is they they will turn on each other without a moment's hesitation. You can be the most outspoken and strident modern SJW with all the right talking points for years..

This is baked in. The "correct" thing changes week by week, the internet remembers forever, and forgiveness, tolerance, and nuance are not permitted. Every single person's history is going to be out of line with the right-think-de-jour at some point, and the only think separating them from cancellation is whether someone is scanning their history on that day. Eventually they'll have some fancy system, with a cute name like "Orwell", to do the scanning automatically.

But dare to have one nuanced opinion that "they" don't like, and you are forced to grovel and appologise under threat of "cancellation".

That's not right. Any hint of apology will sink you completely, as its an admission. The few people who survive are the ones bold enough to say grow up.

[SerieZ]

Decent people need to open their mouth and tell the loonies to fuck off or else you will go the way of the Pirate Party in Germany.
Ignoring the Issue wont make it go away.

Unfortunately decent and rational people with any sort of power or reach risk being "cancelled" if they do that. So it's easier to either capitulate or say nothing.

At which point being a Snitch/Informer became popular? Unless someone is a truly horrific person I do not believe many people think this "cancel culture" or outrage Mob is cool, justified or reasonable.
Also the new thing is now that being silent is not enough anymore either.
"Silence is Violence"
 

Scary

[langwadt]

And the funny thing is they they will turn on each other without a moment's hesitation. You can be the most outspoken and strident modern SJW with all the right talking points for years..

This is baked in. The "correct" thing changes week by week, the internet remembers forever, and forgiveness, tolerance, and nuance are not permitted. Every single person's history is going to be out of line with the right-think-de-jour at some point, and the only think separating them from cancellation is whether someone is scanning their history on that day. Eventually they'll have some fancy system, with a cute name like "Orwell", to do the scanning automatically.

But dare to have one nuanced opinion that "they" don't like, and you are forced to grovel and appologise under threat of "cancellation".

That's not right. Any hint of apology will sink you completely, as its an admission. The few people who survive are the ones bold enough to say grow up.

https://youtu.be/JuvGRnetAv0

[tggzzz]

Decent people need to open their mouth and tell the loonies to fuck off or else you will go the way of the Pirate Party in Germany.
Ignoring the Issue wont make it go away.

Unfortunately decent and rational people with any sort of power or reach risk being "cancelled" if they do that. So it's easier to either capitulate or say nothing.

At which point being a Snitch/Informer became popular? Unless someone is a truly horrific person I do not believe many people think this "cancel culture" or outrage Mob is cool, justified or reasonable.

Look at how teenagers manage to form cliques which are mainly defined by who they exclude.

Now transpose that to adult society, and remove personal interaction, and remove personal responsibility.

[PlainName]

Typical example is electric cars. Petrol heads poo poo them as being low performance

As a keen driver I poo poo electric cars, but for lack of distance and not poor performance. And Teslas for being fugly.

Sometimes the stereotypes assigned to people are the wrong ones, but if one isn't of their mindset it might never be realised.

[edit: damned apostrophe sneaked in]

[EEVblog]

That's not right. Any hint of apology will sink you completely, as its an admission. The few people who survive are the ones bold enough to say grow up.

And that's my response to this whole master/slave thing. Grow up.

[pardo-bsso]

During my first years of university I worked part-time as a taxi dancer (among other related nightly jobs). I grew a very thick skin but which kind of stuff can I claim as offensive to my very own little subculture?

What's a taxi dancer? Is that an autocorrect of "driver"?

Fortunately not.

In a nutshell you go to ballrooms and people pay so that you dance with them all the night, laugh at their jokes and show them around other places that a tourist might enjoy.

But sadly, we also had many very well instructed taxi drivers too.

[EEVblog]

Also from:
https://www.oshwa.org/a-resolution-to-redefine-spi-signal-names

Why are we changing from MOSI/MISO/SS to SDO/SIO/CS?
The electronics industry in particular has been using Master and Slave terminology unabashedly and it needs to stop. It’s unfortunate and embarrassing that our community has gone this long without acknowledging the need to treat all humans with respect. Thankfully, the industry is already making this shift. While many microcontroller and processor manufacturers lag behind, the SDO/SDI terminology is already widely adopted by peripheral manufacturers. Companies like Infineon, Analog Devices, Bosch, TDK, ST, AKM IXYS, Melexis, ROHM and industry groups like the SD Association use the SDO/SDI nomenclature. Additionally, companies like TE.

Here they are making the mistake thinking that these companies are "making the shift" when in fact they likely aren't.
Take ST for example, they still use Master/Slave in microcontroller datasheets because these are specific SPI peripherals, and people expect that functionality and nomenclature on such a master device like a micro. But they use the more generic "SDO/SDI" on peripheral devices because they can be driven by anything, not just an SPI hardware block. This has been common in the industry for decades, nothing new there at all, and no change that I am aware of because of any movement to deliberately remove master/slave terminology. Happy to be corrected, show me an announcement from ST that says they are changing because of the current pressure.

As is common with these kinds of groups and thinking like this, they like to be deceitful (deliberately or innocently) and assert things as facts, and pretend to speak for the "community".

[bd139]

I doubt it'll even register on ST's list of priorities.

Agree with your point about deceit. As I mentioned before they use their marketing skills to look like they have a larger mindshare than they do. Realistically no one sitting there in some back office lab gives a fuck. If someone changes their #define's there will be backlash though.

[SilverSolder]

During my first years of university I worked part-time as a taxi dancer (among other related nightly jobs). I grew a very thick skin but which kind of stuff can I claim as offensive to my very own little subculture?

What's a taxi dancer? Is that an autocorrect of "driver"?

Fortunately not.

In a nutshell you go to ballrooms and people pay so that you dance with them all the night, laugh at their jokes and show them around other places that a tourist might enjoy.

But sadly, we also had many very well instructed taxi drivers too.

That sounds like a fun job.  Like an upscale tourist guide?

[magic]

I write a fair bit of OSS stuff but the GNU stuff is quite frankly mental. I build and contribute to stuff which might be useful to me. If someone else benefits from it then good for them.

Okay, I don't know the full extent of your involvement, but just writing some software which meets the definition doesn't already make you a cultist.

Do you write software or articles about the benefits of opening one's sores?
Do you have the OSI logo prominently on your website?
Are your projects certified by the FSF?
Do you believe that all proprietary software is obsolete because Internet randos will inevitably create a better replacement?
Do you need to convince me of that?
How many people have you convinced to open their projects because "enough eyes makes all bugs shallow"?

Imagine I knew people with whom most answers would be 'yes'.

the GNU stuff is quite frankly mental

But it's a different kind of mental. They do it because they want more free software for themselves, versus brainwashing oneself and then trying to brainwash others that you have the key to solving all the industry's problems.

[bd139]

I write a fair bit of OSS stuff but the GNU stuff is quite frankly mental. I build and contribute to stuff which might be useful to me. If someone else benefits from it then good for them.

Okay, I don't know the full extent of your involvement, but just writing some software which meets the definition doesn't already make you a cultist.

Do you write software or articles about the benefits of opening one's sores?
Do you have the OSI logo prominently on your website?
Are your projects certified by the FSF?
Do you believe that all proprietary software is obsolete because Internet randos will inevitably create a better replacement?
Do you need to convince me of that?
How many people have you convinced to open their projects because "enough eyes makes all bugs shallow"?

Imagine I knew people with whom most answers would be 'yes'.

the GNU stuff is quite frankly mental

But it's a different kind of mental. They do it because they want more free software for themselves, versus brainwashing oneself and then trying to brainwash others that you have the key to solving all the industry's problems.

I simply take what I’ve written and chuck the Apache 2 license on it and sling it out to the world. I’m not a cultist but a pragmatist for sure. I get called all sorts of shit on Reddit regularly by Linux users despite actually using Linux more than them and actually contributing more to numerous projects  . It’s a hobby of mine pissing off some maintainers as well (Poettering) but that’s purely on technical merit.

The irony of this is I probably do more for race relations or whatever it is called these days by employing people on merit (don’t care past that if you’re a smurf or a furry) than some jumped up dick does waving a bit of cardboard around during BLM and coughing on everyone. This is exactly what the open source community should be doing but they prefer waving bits of cardboard around and coughing on everyone while telling everyone how superior their model is.

The extremists have unconvinced me pretty hard . As they always do in every area like master slave terminology.

Be excellent to each other and stamp out all extremism.