Model Trains

[TomKatt]

The problem with most of us that we put things away for " when we have time or retired." In my case, as I retired in late 2017, I had a major surgery and am still not in good shape. Limited movement,  continued aches and pains below the knees keep me withdrawn most of the time. I started recently as I was inspired by an old friend with whom I lost contact for 40 odd years! Hopefully,  my granddaughters will enjoy this. Too bad no grandsons.

Thankfully, our society seems to be breaking down the gender barriers for science / tech interests.   There are no girls in our family (other than mom lol), but I have a suspicion that tech interests flow through our dna no matter X or Y chromosomes 

Certainly, these are the types of things that are great to share with younger generations   

[MarkF]

Gee Andy.  I'm pretty much in the same situation.  I retired in 2016 when I found out that I had cancer.  Surgery and chemo have left me with having a difficult time getting around and neuropathy in my hands and feet.  When doing the wiring under the layout, I barely was able to crawl out from underneath and get back on my feet.  Doing anything with small things, tweezers and shaky hands takes forever.

Just two old timers here, swapping lies and comparing canes!   

[pcprogrammer]

Just two old timers here, swapping lies and comparing canes!   

There are many old timers here on the forum. 
Not that I'm that old (59) but having fibromyalgia (also known under Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) sometimes makes me feel very old. Today I had to put some firewood into the basement. After 6 wheelbarrows I was exhausted and sore all over.

So I can certainly relate with you guys.

[andy3055]

Mark,
I hope your cancer is in remission. I had a fistula inside the spinal tube. It was pressing against the spinal cord and I was almost getting paralyzed. If only it was detected earlier it would have been much better.  Now I have also pneuropathy in my feet due to nerve damage! At least now I can still get about. But achiy lower extremes are so depressing.
 
PCP, I know a family friend who has the same and she is constantly in pain.

I believe in karma ant I am paying for something I have done in the past for sure. 

Anyway, how does one operate or automate signals on a dc system?

[andy3055]

Just noted that I hit 1k posts!

[EEVblog]

Are there any model train enthusiasts on here who model on mostly HO and/or N scale?

I have an N scale layout here in the lab


and of course the famous Indiana Jones HO layout:

[pcprogrammer]

Just noted that I hit 1k posts!

Now you can participate in the lounge conversations 

PCP, I know a family friend who has the same and she is constantly in pain.

Hope she can still manage like I do. The pain is there, but shallow enough to not be a problem. It is a shitty disease though.

But this is about trains, so I pulled the box with my stuff out and made some pictures. Most of the stuff is disassembled, but one locomotive looks like it should. Only the motor is taken out of it.

[fourtytwo42]

Anyway, how does one operate or automate signals on a dc system?

There are so many ways of doing that you wouldn't believe!
Some sense resistance across the tracks easy up to 10K & beyond so not just loco's but also suitably modified trucks. These days it can be accomplished with two diodes & 3 transistors, decades ago i used high resistance relays and high voltage bias supplies (ouch).
Another method is reed switches/magnets or optical sensors and a latching circuit (relay or logic) BUT as not continuous things can get mixed up!
I guess those are the basic alternatives but I have heard of peeps using RFID for example.
I have had huge layouts where maintaining the electronics & software took all my time so I have retired into a strictly manual signal box, just one processor to do point servo's & signal interlocking).
Congrats on the 1000 posts 

[MarkF]

Adding signals to a model railroad has got to be the most difficult part of any layout. 
I found some good resources in the past to understand prototypical (i.e. real world railroad) signals are done:

 This first video is over 2 hours long but well worth wading through.
   

This second video has follow-up videos you can find yourself.
   

Andy, I don't know how you did you wiring, but if you want to run more than one locomotive at a time you need to break-up the track into blocks when doing DC operation (i.e. non-DCC).  On my layout, I divided the track between each turnout giving me 14 blocks.  Each power driver board has a current sense circuit and returns an occupancy signal when a locomotive is in that block.  The problem with this is that I can't tell where the end of the train is (but is fixable) and at first glance I should have more divisions.  There's no point going into more detail since your layout is not this complex.

   

There is an automatic signal system out there that does not require you to have divide the track into blocks.  It is independent of track power and is based on detection time.  This may be a 'good enough' simulation in order to provide a little eye-candy:

  https://blocksignalling.co.uk/Signal-Modules
 

There is also this manual cheapo approach which provides signals but requires the operator to manual change switches to operate the lights.  A full time job on its own, let alone operating the trains and turnouts.
   

[andy3055]

Thanks everyone. Dave should also clean the wheels so that they have good contacts with the track. Nice to know you do dabble in this. Sagen seems thrilled with it.
I also had everything boxed up and only now I got this going.
My layout hast 8 blocks. 4 on each track. Llike you say, I have to keep a close eye on where I stop them because they stop on their own only after over shooting to the next block.  I thought of putting some labels where the insulted joiners are. Thanks for the info on the signals. A lot to study.
Getting the track installed is one thing all these other stuff takes a lot of doing. I have to service all my locos as the Lubricants have dried out!

[MarkF]

I have 15 turnouts on my layout and needed a way to identify them via the wireless throttles.
At first a 3D printed little sign posts (they're about 1" tall) but couldn't see the id from all angles.
Now I printed little cubes (3/8" square) to put at each turnout blade to mimic the turnout motor mechanical box.

Maybe I should take the time to draw something more realistic to the mechanical mechanism.

I painted the letters on one to make it easier to read but I like the more subtle non-painted version.
What does everyone think?

I also printed some tunnel portals.
The stone one I downloaded from Thingiverse the others I designed from pictures.

[andy3055]

Those look great. I don't have a 3D printer and that is something I would not have much of a use for also. I am thinking of making some sort of inconspicuous things to indicate the position of the insulated joiners so that I can stop in advance without overshooting.

[MarkF]

Those look great. I don't have a 3D printer and that is something I would not have much of a use for also. I am thinking of making some sort of inconspicuous things to indicate the position of the insulated joiners so that I can stop in advance without overshooting.

I thought the same way before I got my printer.
You would be surprised what you can find to print.  I've found all kinds of things I never thought of from: mini-blind replacement parts to a rusted out coffee maker bottom to a tool holder for my desk to a cable hanger for all my bench hookup wires to enclosures for electronic projects plus much more.

[xrunner]

Those look great. I don't have a 3D printer and that is something I would not have much of a use for also. I am thinking of making some sort of inconspicuous things to indicate the position of the insulated joiners so that I can stop in advance without overshooting.

I got my 3D printer about halfway through this last layout. Now I would not even consider building a new layout without a 3D printer. There is so much you can find to print and save all that money on buying those expensive building kits plus designing your own simple things or complicated if you want. 

[tggzzz]

Those look great. I don't have a 3D printer and that is something I would not have much of a use for also.

Similar views here. 3D printing is a useful tool, but fettling with printers is not for me!

I use OpenSCAD since it suits my thinking and design processes.  I've had things made in PLA, nylon, SLA, and brass.

Use Shapeways web site to see the characteristics of many materials, and upload the .STL file to find the cost.

DirtyPCBS makes notably low-cost SLA prints.

[EEVblog]

Those look great. I don't have a 3D printer and that is something I would not have much of a use for also. I am thinking of making some sort of inconspicuous things to indicate the position of the insulated joiners so that I can stop in advance without overshooting.

I got my 3D printer about halfway through this last layout. Now I would not even consider building a new layout without a 3D printer. There is so much you can find to print and save all that money on buying those expensive building kits plus designing your own simple things or complicated if you want. 

Yes, I want to get back to my Indiana Jones train set and I think that 3D printing the stuff I need (and then painting) is the way forward.

[andy3055]

Stop it guys! Don't make me buy another piece of hardware 

By the time I get one of them and learn to use it properly,  it will be many moons. I also like making stuff with balsa wood for the scenery stuff. I can understand why you guys like it but I can't afford one at this juncture in my life. When you are on a fixed income,  lot of stuff has to be limited!

[andy3055]

I forgot about the turnouts. Why the hell can't these guys make decent turnouts? Everyone has to be individually tweaked by adjusting the moving parts and filing off the stationary parts. Some locos go through but others won't.  Especially steamers with little weight on the pony wheels in front tend to jump off the tracks within the turnouts.
What are your thoughts?

[fourtytwo42]

Well the problem is we have these fine scale people and then we have old timers like us with old stock and them and fine scale track don't play together well    So for me I make sure I use course scale track and check the back to back measurements of every bit of stock especially when first acquired as often it's completely wrong. If you happen across something like Bachmann split chassis steamers they have axle stubs pressed into plastic that are famous (to me at least) for being out of gauge and often need correcting.

[tszaboo]

I've been trying to get back into the hobby. My father had a TT size system when I was a kid (well ,he has it now but it's all rusted). And I've bought a bit of Piko H0 kit last year. I've also designed and built a Raspberry Pi Pico based DCC turnout controller, and designed a voice decoder based on the RP2040.
I kinda have a working software for it, it can decode DCC messages, but not interpret them yet. I'm also considering whether or not I have to rewrite the protocol reception from circuitpython to C because I have performance issues with it. But the proof of concept was able to play MP3 and wav, and turn a DC motor.

[MarkF]

I forgot about the turnouts. Why the hell can't these guys make decent turnouts? Everyone has to be individually tweaked by adjusting the moving parts and filing off the stationary parts. Some locos go through but others won't.  Especially steamers with little weight on the pony wheels in front tend to jump off the tracks within the turnouts.
What are your thoughts?

I've used Peco code 100 electro-frog turnouts and flex-track without much trouble.  I wired the frog through Tortoise Slow Motion Switch machines so I'm not relying solely on the blade contact.  I have not had to file or adjust the turnouts in any way.  Using the smaller code 83, 75 or 70 size would probably be more fiddly.  I don't like the height of the prefab cork roadbed so I bought 3mm cork sheets and cut it to fit.

You have to be careful with the smaller height rails (especially code 70) because the flanges on the wheels may be too large and actually hit the rail ties causing a derailment.

The only rolling stock I'm having problems with are some ore cars on Shinohara Wye's I bought years ago.  I think it's a problem with the cars and not the track because the rest of the 50+ rolling stock runs fine.

I also soldered the feeder wires onto the bottom of each rail before laying the track.  Pointing each wire to the center of the track only requires one hole to be drilled on the centerline of the track.  After ballasting, the wires will not be seen.  (Refer to Charlie's Chadwick Railway for this technique.  Also, how he wires his turnouts which is slightly different if you're not doing DCC.)

[MarkF]

I've been trying to get back into the hobby. My father had a TT size system when I was a kid (well ,he has it now but it's all rusted). And I've bought a bit of Piko H0 kit last year. I've also designed and built a Raspberry Pi Pico based DCC turnout controller, and designed a voice decoder based on the RP2040.
I kinda have a working software for it, it can decode DCC messages, but not interpret them yet. I'm also considering whether or not I have to rewrite the protocol reception from circuitpython to C because I have performance issues with it. But the proof of concept was able to play MP3 and wav, and turn a DC motor.

Very interesting concept.

You do know they now make slow motion turnout machines with DCC controllers built-in?
Cobalt:
  https://www.dccconcepts.com/product-category/the-cobalt-collection/cobalt-point-motors/cobalt-ip-digital/
Tortoise:
  http://www.circuitron.com/index_files/Smail.htm

[andy3055]

I use code 100 track and turnouts.  I try to use Peco flex track for longer curves and straights. Those are ok. The issue is on the turnouts. I have different brands of them and they all behave differently.
My locos are either Fleishmann or Hornby. In general the wheel spacing is ok but I need to check them anyway. They don't slip like Bachmann. I think those are the worst designs. I think it is a matter of testing each loco at each turnout. Painful thing to do.

[andy3055]

Yes, the slow "tortice" turnout motors are great to watch as they move the points. Only issue is you got to mount them under the table and that involves a bit of work.

Just finished most of the tweaking of my tracks. It is not perfect but usable in that two of the steam locos I have go through without de-railing. In the process, I have been servicing those locos as they are being tested. These have been in storage for 30+ years and need some lubrication. I need to do some buildings, stations etc. before the girls come on the 25th  Can't afford to disappoint them. Want to add some trees as well. Lot of stuff to do.

Please keep writing with ideas guys. Thanks.

[MarkF]

If you want to use slow motion switch machines, you really need to drill the hole for the wire to throw the switch BEFORE laying the turnout.  Don't know how you would drill it after.  And yes it's a bunch of work but you're layout looks small enough that you could turn it up on it's side to mount them.  Also, use one of the switch contacts to power the frog as a secondary power enforcement.


How to make trees and bushes....