Model Trains

[andy3055]

Ha Ha!

[MarkF]

Nice. I wish I had a farm... but with others to work there! Meaning a rich farmer 

The stairs are a little steep...

[andy3055]

That reminds me of old buildings in London and back east, with no elevators!

[SteveThackery]

Re the cow video: the sound effects are hilarious! What a pleasure to watch.

[tggzzz]

That reminds me of old buildings in London and back east, with no elevators!

Which is preferable: those stairs or paternoster lifts/elevators?

[dave j]

That reminds me of old buildings in London and back east, with no elevators!

Which is preferable: those stairs or paternoster lifts/elevators?

Paternosters are fun. The secret is to be bold and don't hesitate.

[andy3055]

It is like walking on to an elevator. Timing is the key.

[MarkF]

Layout update:

I'm realizing that speed changes at the high end are not very noticeable (i.e. the 9v to 12v range).  I have re-visited my speed profile for the throttles and have reduced my speed steps to 34 (green).  I have condensed the expential response for greater voltage changes at the high end.  The first 16 steps are a PWM waveform and the last 18 steps are a constant DC voltage.  This is my fourth iteration from 100 to 64 to 50 to 34 steps now.  As a comparison, DCC systems commonly can be setup for 14, 28, or 128 step mode. 

The peak voltage for the PWM waveform is around 8V.  This level seems to work well for both my new locomotives as well as for my Athearn Blue Box locos from the 80s.

This change has reduced the needed spinning of the throttle encoder with little, if any, noticeable change in speed responsiveness.  As I've known for awhile, control at slow speeds is the most desirable.  Most prototype operation would be in and around a yard setting where you would be dropping off or picking up cars.  You don't get much satisfaction of seeing trains at high speeds around in an oval.

Here is a new graph of my last three iterations:
I did some actual voltage measurements (right vertical scale) and found that 1V steps don't line up linearly with the index value I send to the DACs.  I'm not concerned by it.  Just surprised.

EDIT:  Extended speed profile analysis to include delta_change/speed_step plot for exponential progressions.  I also tailored the 3X and 4X profiles for smoother step change rates.  I've currently settled on the 3X zoom with 34 steps of which 16 are PWM (green plots).  The discontinuity in the delta plots are caused by the switch from PWM output to a DC voltage output.




I have also been updating the software.  Primarily adding control for signals (stop sign like icons) and zoom of the throttle bargraphs to reflect the new 34 step maximum.  Track blocks are drawn in white when occupancy is detected.



I bought 3 two aspect (red/green) signals from Evemodel for testing.




I also added some new photos of the layout to the photo montage back in Reply #3.


On a side note, the "ProtoThrottle from Iowa Scaled Engineering" is very interesting for prototype operations.



ProtoThrottle operation at the Seaboard Central:

 

[MarkF]

It's about time I presented a detailed description of my custom throttle.

It has a 128x96 color OLED, a pic18f2620, a nRF24L01+ transceiver, an encoder, and two switches.
There are a maximum of five throttles that can be used at one time on the layout.  However, I only built two.

There are four areas that are selectable by pushing the encoder knob:  throttle position, cab number, turnout/light number, or straight/thrown/Off/On state.  The Cab names and Turnout/Light names are downloaded from the laptop at Power On.  There are a total of 30 each.  The 30 Cab names are divided into 15 power blocks and 15 pre-programmed routes.  There are 16 turnouts on the layout (AA through PP) where the name is engraved on the dummy switch motors I 3D printed for easy identification.  That leaves 14 lights controllable from the throttle.

The laptop checks for conflicts in the operator selection of Cab and Turnout/Lights by multiple throttles.  If a conflict is found, both offending throttles are locked out until it is resolved and a conflict indication is displayed on both.

Since the layout is DC power (non-DCC), the throttles display green for CW (clockwise) movement of the trains and red for CCW movement.  Irrespective of the direction that the locomotive is pointing on the layout.  With the 3x zoom of the speed bargraph and the new 34 step speed profile, the bargraph gives a better indication of the actual loco speed.  Prior to the speed profile changes, only about 25% of the bargraph was ever used in normal operation.  Since the changes, most of the bargraph is used in operation and the switch between PWM and pure DC is in the center of the graph.  Overall a much better indication and usage of the throttle position.

[andy3055]

You have spent a lot of time doing this. Amaszing! Have you thought about going commercial?

I got in to a fit and ordered 2 more of the LocoFi units. Now I have four! Then, got into a major fit. Bought 8 Kato locos!!! All this blew me by a little over 1k  . Luckily for me, the better half does not ask questions because she knows that I am not a careless spender. He, heh! The NOS Katos run very smooth.  They have a lot of details and lovely to look at. Now I have to find a way to expand the layout. This is where I might get killed or divorced. 

[MarkF]

I understand the problem...
I just bought 4 boxcars and 2 tank cars last month.
No more of the $5 Blue Box kits.
If you count all my old locos, I have 11 total now.
The new ones run so much better than my ones from the 80's.
They seem to be pretty well speed matched too.  So, I run them in pairs.
Looks more prototypical on the layout.
I thought I saw that you can setup consists of multiple locos with your system?

If you're seriously going to expand your track, I highly recommend AnyRail.
It's pretty easy to learn and the free version limits you to 50 pieces of track.
It has most manufactures sectional and flex track to choose from.
I'm running version 6.58.2 which is the last version for Windows 7.

My track layout you see from my laptop screen captures was generated from AnyRail.
It can export a Trainplayer XML file which I wrote a program to post process and
create graphic drawing commands for my main layout control program.  I then overlaid
touch inputs to allow turnout switching and lighting control. 
It also highlights occupied track blocks in white (never captured a screen sample).

Again, give AnyRail a try (Windows only).

[MarkF]

It feels like I'm spending all of my time trying to prevent short circuits.
Being able to predict and eliminate shorts at each and every turnout and then to program
the logic for them is turning out to be a monumental task.

All these recent changes to the speed profile and throttle display come from just operating the layout.  Getting the scaling right and being able to have a meaningful throttle display has been a bit of trial-and-error.  One piece of advice for anyone setting up their throttles (even the DCC profiles) is to concentrate on the slow speed end.  Like that last video of the ProtoThrottle a few days ago, it's all about the 0 to 10mph prototypical speed control.  If you notice he setup his 8 speed notches so that 10mph is in the middle (notch 4) position.  To me most modelers will quickly tire of proto speeds of 20 to 80mph and it looks toyish to me.  In each of my updates, I've been phasing out detailed control of the high speed range. 

The slower I get the trains to run, the more I enjoy the layout.

[MarkF]

I spent a little time this morning making a short operational video.

 

[andy3055]

Yes, this app has the consist function but, I have not tried it yet. Consisting will let me run more locos on the two tracks. Good idea.
I agree with the slow running of the trains. It is much better as you can see the action unlike when things just whizzing past you.
Your layout is coming along nicely.  I am eager to see some scenery..
In my case, I cannot do much of expansion with the existing space. I had a lot of track with the sets that bought in the 70s Hornby lot and added some Ni/silver curves and flex track. So far no major issues. Like you say, sometimes the turnouts create problems with shorts. Just installed a LocoFi thingy in one of my new Kato locos.

[MarkF]

Can you not make a L-shape extension along one of the side walls?
It would be straight dead-end track with a few turnouts for a
small staging yard.  It would only need to be 1 ft wide.

[andy3055]

Ah! I do have it already 

[andy3055]

Note the small airplane flying over!

[MarkF]

Nice.
If you could extend each line to 3' or 4', you could hold three complete trains that you could switch out one at a time and run through the layout.  It would make the layout seem bigger if you don't see the same train each time.  And it would also add a switching operation that would make it more interesting for the operator.

Even better if you have enough length, would be to have a turnout at the very end with just enough length beyond for one or two (i.e. a consist) engine(s).  That way you could pull a train in, disconnect the engine(s), run around on the adjacent track and connect back to the other end of the train for the return trip.

[andy3055]

Great suggestion. I was thining what I should do to make this a more interesting layout in the limited space I have. Time to get to work! Thanks, Mark.

[MarkF]

I've spent two days of quality time on my back under the layout.
Changed all the current limit resistors on the track driver PCBs to
lower the current limit to 1.5A.
I still have more work underneath to add wiring for more lights and
track signals.  Oh joy!

I also finalized the locations for all the farm buildings.

I still need to buy some static grass and buy/build a bunch of trees.

Made a second night video to show building lights.
Eventually, I will add the street lights.

 

[andy3055]

Think about doing any landscape related lighting after the landscaping is done. That gives time to observe the layout in low light to make a better decision.
Working under the layout is the hardest of all.

[MarkF]

Think about doing any landscape related lighting after the landscaping is done. That gives time to observe the layout in low light to make a better decision.
Working under the layout is the hardest of all.

Yes. I plan on adding street lighting for streets and parking lots.
I 3D printed several light versions (see Reply #211).  I'll probably go with version #A.

Didn't think of small landscape/accent lights.  I need to keep that in mind.

[andy3055]

That looks good. I guess you are planning on increasing the height of the lamp post so that it looks proportionate to the horizontal section holding the lamp itself.

As for the landscape lights, what I did was install some lights along the track sides which looks nice in subdued room lighting.

[MarkF]

Two new structures.  The automobile shed for the farm and
an elevated diesel fuel tank for the engine house.

[andy3055]

I am feeling very jealous already!