I think the ideas was to use the cavity from the convex shape of the clamshell chassis as an air current rectifier, and suck air from one side, through the fins, to the other side where the fan's inlet plane is located, then blow the air through the outlet port.
I'm pretty sure Apple did the simulation, and it works
However even if it's made so, it's a very crappy cooling nonetheless. No way it can even remotely perform as a heatpipe and proper heatsink behind the blower fan.
It is not a crappy design based on your (or my) impression. It will perform or not based on real data, steady state and transient temperature profiles.
Judging a cooling system by its looks its worse than judging a circuit by its looks, you need measurements.
But still, wouldn't a properly piped fan design mean the fan would not have to work as hard?
More efficient meaning a slower fan, saving battery power and lower RPM means lower noise...
The CPU on the MacBook and MacBook Air is supposed to only operate when you open a program. Otherwise, it is supposed to stay idle.
That's why we have hardware video decoder, hardware encryption coprocessor and hardware {put_function_in_there}.
It is not a number crunching machine. If you need a transcoding warrior or a simulation powerhouse, you are buying the wrong computer.
It is not a crappy design based on your (or my) impression. It will perform or not based on real data, steady state and transient temperature profiles.
Judging a cooling system by its looks its worse than judging a circuit by its looks, you need measurements.But still, wouldn't a properly piped fan design mean the fan would not have to work as hard?
More efficient meaning a slower fan, saving battery power and lower RPM means lower noise...
That is still poor design then if the cooling is the limiting factor of PC performance.If you can find a single thin and light high performance computer (gaming laptop with dGPU and i7/i9-HQ/HK under 20mm thickness) without thermal throttling during CPU+GPU dual stress testing, I'd like to hear about it.
That's like shipping a car with a tiny radiator and saying "don't expect to rally with it".
But still, wouldn't a properly piped fan design mean the fan would not have to work as hard?
More efficient meaning a slower fan, saving battery power and lower RPM means lower noise...
The CPU on the MacBook and MacBook Air is supposed to only operate when you open a program. Otherwise, it is supposed to stay idle.
That's why we have hardware video decoder, hardware encryption coprocessor and hardware {put_function_in_there}.
It is not a number crunching machine. If you need a transcoding warrior or a simulation powerhouse, you are buying the wrong computer.
That is still poor design then if the cooling is the limiting factor of PC performance. That's like shipping a car with a tiny radiator and saying "don't expect to rally with it".
If you can find a single thin and light high performance computer (gaming laptop with dGPU and i7/i9-HQ/HK under 20mm thickness) without thermal throttling during CPU+GPU dual stress testing, I'd like to hear about it.
QuoteI'm pretty sure Apple did the simulation, and it worksI'm pretty sure they placed temp probes inside
It might cool the CPU at the other end of the heat pipe better, but what about all the other parts on the PCB? Having the airflow across almost the entire motherboard cools those parts better than the plastic enclosed laptops that carry all the heat around in pipes.
If you can find a single thin and light high performance computer (gaming laptop with dGPU and i7/i9-HQ/HK under 20mm thickness) without thermal throttling during CPU+GPU dual stress testing, I'd like to hear about it.That's irrelevant. If something thermal throttles because the cooling solution when it would have been easy to do better without drawbacks then it's stupid design.
You're welcome to design better within Apple's constraints (size, weight, noise) and submit that to them
- I'm sure they'd be happy to hire you.
It might cool the CPU at the other end of the heat pipe better, but what about all the other parts on the PCB? Having the airflow across almost the entire motherboard cools those parts better than the plastic enclosed laptops that carry all the heat around in pipes.Adding heatpipe with a heatsink behind the blower fan does nothing to prevent fan from moving air across the PCB from intake side .
You're welcome to design better within Apple's constraints (size, weight, noise) and submit that to themAdding a heatpipe in the free space we see would not make more noise, make the machine any bigger or weigh significantly more.
- I'm sure they'd be happy to hire you.The constraints they set for themselves and the compromises that result of it are not ones I would agree to work towards.
You're welcome to design better within Apple's constraints (size, weight, noise) and submit that to them - I'm sure they'd be happy to hire you.
There isn't space for a heat pipe and associated heatsink in that layout.
If you're convinced its so easy, make a cooling package for some of these laptops and sell it to all these people who want better cooling, [sarcasm]it'll be a huge market and you'll be rich[\sarcasm]
You're welcome to design better within Apple's constraints (size, weight, noise) and submit that to them - I'm sure they'd be happy to hire you.Easy way to get better cooling is to add thermal pads to use the aluminum case as part of the heatsink. The problem is that the thermal pads, while cheap, do cost something and they try to cut every last fraction of a cent they can get away with.
It might cool the CPU at the other end of the heat pipe better, but what about all the other parts on the PCB? Having the airflow across almost the entire motherboard cools those parts better than the plastic enclosed laptops that carry all the heat around in pipes.Adding heatpipe with a heatsink behind the blower fan does nothing to prevent fan from moving air across the PCB from intake side .
It might cool the CPU at the other end of the heat pipe better, but what about all the other parts on the PCB? Having the airflow across almost the entire motherboard cools those parts better than the plastic enclosed laptops that carry all the heat around in pipes.Adding heatpipe with a heatsink behind the blower fan does nothing to prevent fan from moving air across the PCB from intake side .
why use a heat pipe to move heat to a heatsink in the fan output when you can use a heatsink directly mounted and in the
fan intake air?
There isn't space for a heat pipe and associated heatsink in that layout.Really. If there is enough space for that heatsink, sure there is enough space over PCB for a flat heatpipe. Heatsink adds like 1 centimeter behind the fan, with the same thickness as fan itself.QuoteIf you're convinced its so easy, make a cooling package for some of these laptops and sell it to all these people who want better cooling, [sarcasm]it'll be a huge market and you'll be rich[\sarcasm]One of stupidest arguments. It's not easy to add something to completed design. You cannot simply shrink the fan or cut a hole behind it. Not to say it's a custom fan. But at design stage it wasn't hard to do at all.
It might cool the CPU at the other end of the heat pipe better, but what about all the other parts on the PCB? Having the airflow across almost the entire motherboard cools those parts better than the plastic enclosed laptops that carry all the heat around in pipes.Adding heatpipe with a heatsink behind the blower fan does nothing to prevent fan from moving air across the PCB from intake side .why use a heat pipe to move heat to a heatsink in the fan output when you can use a heatsink directly mounted and in the
fan intake air?The idea here is that the current fan design doesn't even try to move air anywhere in the design, that just a smidge of effort could have improved the situation without added cost, maybe even saving apple money in the long run.
why use a heat pipe to move heat to a heatsink in the fan output when you can use a heatsink directly mounted and in the
fan intake air?
It might cool the CPU at the other end of the heat pipe better, but what about all the other parts on the PCB? Having the airflow across almost the entire motherboard cools those parts better than the plastic enclosed laptops that carry all the heat around in pipes.Adding heatpipe with a heatsink behind the blower fan does nothing to prevent fan from moving air across the PCB from intake side .
why use a heat pipe to move heat to a heatsink in the fan output when you can use a heatsink directly mounted and in the
fan intake air?The idea here is that the current fan design doesn't even try to move air anywhere in the design, that just a smidge of effort could have improved the situation without added cost, maybe even saving apple money in the long run.
why use a heat pipe to move heat to a heatsink in the fan output when you can use a heatsink directly mounted and in the
fan intake air?Because area of that heatsink is very small.
why use a heat pipe to move heat to a heatsink in the fan output when you can use a heatsink directly mounted and in the
fan intake air?Because area of that heatsink is very small.look like a heat sink in the fan exhaust would be of similar size
You're welcome to design better within Apple's constraints (size, weight, noise) and submit that to them - I'm sure they'd be happy to hire you.Easy way to get better cooling is to add thermal pads to use the aluminum case as part of the heatsink. The problem is that the thermal pads, while cheap, do cost something and they try to cut every last fraction of a cent they can get away with.Easy, but then instead of burning itself, CPU will burn your lap because enclosure will become hot.
Easy, but then instead of burning itself, CPU will burn your lap because enclosure will become hot.
In the end, the design choice justification doesn't really matter. What matters is that apparently the CPU keeps burning out on these macbooks, and that's pretty unacceptable for a (iirc) 2 year old model.
Easy, but then instead of burning itself, CPU will burn your lap because enclosure will become hot.Done right, the bottom of the case will get very warm but not too hot to touch. Or design it to mostly use the top of the case as the heatsink, the part above the keyboard that is rarely touched in actual usage.
In the end, the design choice justification doesn't really matter. What matters is that apparently the CPU keeps burning out on these macbooks, and that's pretty unacceptable for a (iirc) 2 year old model.
In the end, the design choice justification doesn't really matter. What matters is that apparently the CPU keeps burning out on these macbooks, and that's pretty unacceptable for a (iirc) 2 year old model.What is the rate of incidence? Is it known/proven to be thermally caused? Seems like a massive overreaction and lots of guessing around some insignificant number of failures.
why use a heat pipe to move heat to a heatsink in the fan output when you can use a heatsink directly mounted and in the
fan intake air?The idea here is that the current fan design doesn't even try to move air anywhere in the design, that just a smidge of effort could have improved the situation without added cost, maybe even saving apple money in the long run.
And the reason people don't like/want to put (much) copper in the laptops is that it's very heavy!
It's also quite expensive compared to aluminium.
Apple has made enough money. I've seen PCs using full magnesium construction at similar or even slightly lower price.
But I don't believe that 7W figure. It surely eats much more than that in turbo boost and there are other chips there it's not just the CPU.
nothing added to commit but untracked files present (use "git add" to track)
10-YOSEMITE:cosas_iot admin$ cat /dev/zero > /dev/null &
[1] 87342
10-YOSEMITE:cosas_iot admin$ cat /dev/zero > /dev/null &
[2] 87343
10-YOSEMITE:cosas_iot admin$ cat /dev/zero > /dev/null &
[3] 87344
10-YOSEMITE:cosas_iot admin$ cat /dev/zero > /dev/null &
[4] 87345
10-YOSEMITE:cosas_iot admin$ cat /dev/zero > /dev/null &
[5] 87359
10-YOSEMITE:cosas_iot admin$ cat /dev/zero > /dev/null &
[6] 87360
10-YOSEMITE:cosas_iot admin$ cat /dev/zero > /dev/null &
[7] 87361
10-YOSEMITE:cosas_iot admin$ cat /dev/zero > /dev/null &
[8] 87362
10-YOSEMITE:cosas_iot admin$ sudo kilall cat
Password:
sudo: kilall: command not found
10-YOSEMITE:cosas_iot admin$ sudo killall cat
[1] Terminated: 15 cat /dev/zero > /dev/null
[2] Terminated: 15 cat /dev/zero > /dev/null
[3] Terminated: 15 cat /dev/zero > /dev/null
[4] Terminated: 15 cat /dev/zero > /dev/null
[5] Terminated: 15 cat /dev/zero > /dev/null
[6] Terminated: 15 cat /dev/zero > /dev/null
[7]- Terminated: 15 cat /dev/zero > /dev/null
[8]+ Terminated: 15 cat /dev/zero > /dev/null
10-YOSEMITE:cosas_iot admin$
One other idea is to put the CPU behind the display and use the entire back of the display as a heatsink, with basically a large, flat heatpipe to spread the heat. But unlike a tablet, the battery is still in the keyboard part.
But I don't believe that 7W figure. It surely eats much more than that in turbo boost and there are other chips there it's not just the CPU.
I think TDP is the power the cooling system has to be able to dissipate, isn't it? And a MacBook just like that one sitting doing nothing consumes almost 6W already and +16W with the CPU doing something.
The TDP is typically not the largest amount of heat the CPU could ever generate (peak power), such as by running a power virus, but rather the maximum amount of heat that it would generate when running "real applications". This ensures the computer will be able to handle essentially all applications without exceeding its thermal envelope, or requiring a cooling system for the maximum theoretical power (which would cost more but in favor of extra headroom for processing power).
One thing Louis doesn't mention in the video is that the heat pipes' radiator always ends up clogged with debris in the fins, sooner or later. The other design is more resistant in that respect. How many Macs die because of that? Millions I'm sure, because most people don't even know there's a radiator there that needs to be serviced every so often. Not only the laptops, the iMacs too.
One thing Louis doesn't mention in the video is that the heat pipes' radiator always ends up clogged with debris in the fins, sooner or later. The other design is more resistant in that respect. How many Macs die because of that? Millions I'm sure, because most people don't even know there's a radiator there that needs to be serviced every so often. Not only the laptops, the iMacs too.
The reliability stats for Apple computers do not in any way support your absurd claim that millions of them die due to dust-related overheating (or, indeed, due to overheating of any description).
Remember: Louis is in the business of repairing broken devices. For each broken one he sees, he doesn’t see the hundreds that never failed. It’s not a representative sample. And he has a vested interest in making it out as though Apple devices fail left and right, when they don’t.