New Miami Foot Bridge Collapse Bad Engineering?

[orion242]

Ouch.

Lawyers, ready, set, go!

Hate to be that engineer or the one that did the independent review.

[TerraHertz]

Wow. What a cluster f*ck.
Not one party involved in the design, review and construction did their job competently.

One thing missing from the report recommendations is a final paragraph: "The following people should be arrested and charged with manslaughter... "   I guess that would be too simple, and the lawyers wouldn't have as much billing fun.


I'm amazed that a structure with zero load-bearing redundancy was even proposed, let alone approved and built. With design errors that guaranteed failure. Then the highly visible progression towards failure sent everyone into denial, no road closure etc.

Personally I think this is all very consistent with the philosophical insanity of designing a bridge with literally fake 'suspension stays' that were actually just visual adornments to be added after the bridge was in place.

Also maybe unrelated according to some, but my final comment is - Liberalism, it's a mental disorder.

[orion242]

Donno about everyone in denial.

Seems everyone was well aware of the cracking and it was documented.  The construction team raised it and was told its a non-issue.

Sound to me like an arrogant / ignorant engineer getting annoyed and snapping back everything is OK, I did the design dammit!  Concrete cracks, everyone knows that!

Granted the construction team could have halted things, though they are going to rely on the guy with PE after their name for assurance things are safe or any modifications required to be so.

[coppice]

Personally I think this is all very consistent with the philosophical insanity of designing a bridge with literally fake 'suspension stays' that were actually just visual adornments to be added after the bridge was in place.

There is nothing inherently wrong with visual adornments. If they are genuinely adornments, they are harmless by definition. There are some fun ones around the world, which the world would be a sadder place without. For example, in St Paul's Cathedral in London, Sir Christopher Wren designed the roof and dome to be self supporting. Others insisted the dome needed a ring of supporting columns. He built it self supporting, but with a ring of columns just slightly too short to support anything. 

[Marco]

Ignoring everything else, I still think the concept of actively supporting a hydraulic jack with a crane for tensioning is batshit insane

[floobydust]

... Also maybe unrelated according to some, but my final comment is - Liberalism, it's a mental disorder.

It's just insane- the hype and buildup around a simple pedestrian bridge marketed as being a deity - magically attract students to FIU, be an engineering legend in bridge technology, and have unicorns and rainbows, SJW properties - save us from global warming and pollution.

This is some new mental illness, also seen with solar roadways, Theranos etc. - where the hard reality is ignored, all the while non-technical people fantasize about the greatness.

The massive cracking after installation spoke volumes but nobody was willing to hit the brakes, especially the lead engineer.  They are still looking at laying criminal charges. All five parties involved were faulted for not reacting properly to the bridge cracking. I have seen many doomed big projects roll like a freight train, as everyone goes along with it.

[Marco]

I think the company was probably more excited about being able to shave a couple of percent off material costs for construction compared to concrete slab steel web truss bridges, so they could get more design wins, than social justice.

[tooki]

Also maybe unrelated according to some, but my final comment is - Liberalism, it's a mental disorder.

Do you mean the US meaning of "liberal" (left-leaning, pro-regulation, socially progressive.), or the Euro, etc. meaning (laissez-faire economics, minimal regulation, more right-leaning)?

(It's kinda insane how the word "liberal" has come to mean just about the polar opposite, depending on where you are...)

[floobydust]

From the 173 page proposal:

"Bridges designed by FIGG are purposeful works of art, functional sculptures within the landscape, that are created through a careful analysis of the site, contextual and environmental sensitivity, and a regional approach that encompasses a community’s particular needs, as well as the realities of funding and maintenance."

"This design approach is inspired by the values and vision of FIU and this theme. Archetypal design principles of blending shapes, creating shadows, selecting textures, choosing pleasing colors, opening new vistas, using native materials, creating feature lighting and incorporating landscaping were combined to create a bridge that celebrates and is inspired by FIU. Design and construction inspiration came from FIU’s innovative research and technology, educational excellence, and commitment to sustainability.

The project had a "Visual Quality Designer and Sustainability Manager" 

[Quarlo Klobrigney]

Just a bunch of Commie-Pinko words that added up to disaster and death.
Colonel Sam Flagg agrees. Don't look for him to ask his opinion though, because he is invisible and was never there.

[magic]

Do you mean the US meaning or the Euro?

If there is a difference I haven't seen it

The project had a "Visual Quality Designer and Sustainability Manager" 

Not even sure if you are joking.
But I know some building engineers who absolutely detest modern architects.
Not only have they little regard for practicality ("we just design, engineering will figure out how to build it") but they even consider it a badge of honor to be clueless about technical matters.

[tooki]

Do you mean the US meaning or the Euro?

If there is a difference I haven't seen it

I summarized it in my comment. The two meanings are literally polar opposites, so it kinda matters.

[floobydust]

Not even sure if you are joking.

Sustainability Manager on a bridge design having no redundancy? I didn't know if I should laugh or cry.

[rsjsouza]

The project had a "Visual Quality Designer and Sustainability Manager" 

You really can't make that stuff up! Seeing how the electronics industry is affected by a subpar material (lead free) due to environmental impact, I wonder how much that was a factor on this project.

And that is coming from someone that was born in a city where several buildings were designed by one of Le Corbusier's pupils (Oscar Niemeyer) where form absolutely predominated over function - they are extremely impractical and with very high maintenance costs. But at that time these projects had unlimited funds (government) and materials were chosen by their fit, not by their pollutant/toxic/environmental impact.

[coppice]

The NTSB put a 6 minute video describing this bridge incident on YouTube
.
They also put a 3 hour 18 minute video of the hearings on YouTube

[orion242]

The project had a "Visual Quality Designer and Sustainability Manager" 

You really can't make that stuff up! Seeing how the electronics industry is affected by a subpar material (lead free) due to environmental impact, I wonder how much that was a factor on this project.

And that is coming from someone that was born in a city where several buildings were designed by one of Le Corbusier's pupils (Oscar Niemeyer) where form absolutely predominated over function - they are extremely impractical and with very high maintenance costs. But at that time these projects had unlimited funds (government) and materials were chosen by their fit, not by their pollutant/toxic/environmental impact.

The PE of record failing to dig in faced with that cracking, seems either clueless or in denial.  That should have been an hmmm moment they quietly go back to the bat cave and recheck everything.

All those pictures documenting the cracks, and they are not minor yet somehow they thought things where ok?  That member was crumbling in front of them.

[coppice]

All those pictures documenting the cracks, and they are not minor yet somehow they thought things where ok?  That member was crumbling in front of them.

Reports say the cracks were visibly growing day by day, yet on the day of the collapse the designers were still suggesting grouting up the cracks and carrying on.

[orion242]

suggesting grouting up the cracks and carrying on.

Arrogant ahole IMO and a construction team that should have known better but lapped up PE of record ahole decision in spite of common sense to meet deadlines I assume.

[Quarlo Klobrigney]

Quote from: coppice on Today at 12:17:45

Reports say the cracks were visibly growing day by day, yet on the day of the collapse the designers were still suggesting grouting up the cracks and carrying on.

[thm_w]

Not even sure if you are joking.
But I know some building engineers who absolutely detest modern architects.
Not only have they little regard for practicality ("we just design, engineering will figure out how to build it") but they even consider it a badge of honor to be clueless about technical matters.

Then you go back to them and say its not possible to make this design in a safe manner for the costs given.
100% blame here is on whoever signed off and built this as they were responsible for ensuring it met the safety criteria. As they are legally required to have technical knowledge.

Would you shit on the artistic designer of a Disney castle if it collapsed?

[orion242]

designers were still suggesting grouting up the cracks and carrying on

Comical.  Cracking to that degree is a red flag.  Grouting is a cosmetic bandaid, not structural fix for that.  Slow motion train wreck seeing those photos.  All documented no less.  This PE not doubling back faced with this, arrogant ahole IMO.  Guessing attitude adjustment is coming hard and fast.

[floobydust]

The cracks were huge! "40 times as large as the maximum considered acceptable in a reinforced concrete bridge"

“Further contributing to the collapse was the failure of the FIGG engineer of record to identify the significance of the structural cracking observed in this node before the collapse and to obtain an independent peer review of the remedial plan to address the cracking,” the NTSB wrote in its probable cause finding. “Contributing to the severity of the collapse outcome was the failure of [general contractor] MCM; FIGG; [inspectors] Bolton, Perez and Associates Consulting Engineers; FIU; and the Florida Department of Transportation to cease bridge work when the structure cracking reached unacceptable levels and to take appropriate action to close SW 8th Street as necessary to protect public safety.”

Federal prosecutors are deciding if the accident crossed the line into criminal negligence. Apparently that would be a tough case under Florida laws:
"Bureaucrats, contractors, engineers, inspectors all rely on each other’s professional judgments, he [prosecutor Gilbert] said, and under the law, you can’t hold one criminally responsible for another’s failing. “Everything becomes a contest of experts, and that’s always going to be difficult,” Gilbert said. “Just proving they made an error doesn’t mean it was a grossly negligent error.”

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article236597488.html

[soldar]

“Just proving they made an error doesn’t mean it was a grossly negligent error.”

Res ipsa loquitur.

[coppice]

“Just proving they made an error doesn’t mean it was a grossly negligent error.”

Res ipsa loquitur.

One error does not imply negligence, but ignoring inputs on multiple occasions, from the paper design stage to the final inspection before the collapse, seems to.

What I find interesting is that nobody wanted to step up and say "shut the road down before people get hurt". Doesn't Florida or US law properly define who is the arbiter of safety in this kind of work? Decades of psychological research shows that if people can assign blame for consequences to someone else, they are prepared to do terrible things. Without clear deliniation of where the buck stops, you really aren't going to get good engineering decisions.

[soldar]

“Just proving they made an error doesn’t mean it was a grossly negligent error.”

Res ipsa loquitur.

One error does not imply negligence,

I disagree. Building bridges like that is something that can be done routinely with no risk of it collapsing. The fact that it did collapse is enough to put the responsibility on the designers/builders without need to prove negligence because the negligence was built into the bridge. It is up to the individuals concerned to prove they are NOT responsible. What happened speaks for itself.

What I find interesting is that nobody wanted to step up and say "shut the road down before people get hurt". Doesn't Florida or US law properly define who is the arbiter of safety in this kind of work? Decades of psychological research shows that if people can assign blame for consequences to someone else, they are prepared to do terrible things. Without clear deliniation of where the buck stops, you really aren't going to get good engineering decisions.

The phenomenon where subordinates will not question the obviously bad decisions of their superiors is well-known and has been studied.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crew_resource_management

Cockpit voice recordings of various air disasters tragically reveal first officers and flight engineers attempting to bring critical information to the captain's attention in an indirect and ineffective way. By the time the captain understood what was being said, it was too late to avert the disaster. A CRM expert named Todd Bishop developed a five-step assertive statement process that encompasses inquiry and advocacy steps:[13]

    Opening or attention getter - Address the individual: "Hey Chief," or "Captain Smith," or "Bob," or whatever name or title will get the person's attention.
    State your concern - Express your analysis of the situation in a direct manner while owning your emotions about it. "I'm concerned that we may not have enough fuel to fly around this storm system," or "I'm worried that the roof might collapse."
    State the problem as you see it - "We're showing only 40 minutes of fuel left," or "This building has a lightweight steel truss roof, and we may have fire extension into the roof structure."
    State a solution - "Let's divert to another airport and refuel," or "I think we should pull some tiles and take a look with the thermal imaging camera before we commit crews inside."
    Obtain agreement (or buy-in) - "Does that sound good to you, Captain?"

These are often difficult skills to master, as they may require significant changes in personal habits, interpersonal dynamics, and organizational culture.