OT: KosherSwitch - Control Electricity on Shabbat!

[phamuc]

What  some creative engineering and inbreeding will produce. 

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/kosherswitch-control-electricity-on-shabbat#home


Hey Dave, if you convert to Judaism, you would be forced to take one day a week off. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_on_Shabbat

[corrado33]

Can someone explain to me why normal switches aren't "kosher"? I thought kosher just referred to food? <- Obviously ignorant of this religion's traditions/(ridiculous) rules.

Ok, just googled their rules. I'm sorry. I'm normally tolerant of religions, but this IS ridiculous.

One rule is this "You are not allowed to extinguish a fire, even if it means great property damage will result." 

[kolonelkadat]

Can someone explain to me why normal switches aren't "kosher"?

because you cant cause or cause to be caused a light to turn on or off. whether it's opening a refrigerator, or walking past a house with motion detecting lights, or flipping a light switch, it is forbidden.

which really begs the question, how is this device not forbidden? Regardless of the mechanism, you are flipping a switch with the full intent to defy god's law and change the state of an electrical device.

[corrado33]

which really begs the question, how is this device not forbidden? Regardless of the mechanism, you are flipping a switch with the full intent to defy god's law and change the state of an electrical device.

Oh, you should google a lot of the ways that people get AROUND these rules, because obviously that's what was intended when (probably) god made these rules?

I want to be religious, but I want to go behind the back of every rule laid out in front of me by my god. 

Oh, but this switch still causes a light to be turned on, regardless of how it's done. If a motion sensing light is illegal, how the heck is this legal?

[suicidaleggroll]

WTF?

So in "Super Sabbath Mode", flicking the switch simply starts a random timer which turns on the light somewhere between tens of seconds and two minutes later?  How is that not direct causation again?

[German_EE]

Orthodox Jews don't work on the Sabbath, at all, if you have a cold then even walking around with a handkerchief in your pocket is considered work (so you tie it around your waist). Using any sort of electrically powered items is a big no no hence the messing around with timers and special switches. The oven thing comes from the great long list of prohibited activities where they took the ban on making a fire and distorted it somewhat

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Activities_prohibited_on_Shabbat

Tradition is a big thing in Jewish life but sometimes I wish that they could be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st Century.

[Red Squirrel]

Haha this is hilarious.  Basically the sabbath prevents you from doing work.  Pushing a button is work.  It's silliness though considering even Jesus himself found it ridiculous and disobeyed it on several occasions such as when he healed people.  The rabis were not happy but he basically told them to screw off.   

Also I just realized, my thermostat system is probably kosher.  I input my work schedule and don't have to touch it after that, typically.  Of course I still do because I can but I don't have to. 

[corrado33]

Tradition is a big thing in Jewish life but sometimes I wish that they could be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st Century.

The funny thing is, if I was banned from doing any sort of work on sunday, I'd just get REALLY FREAKING GOOD at electronics then program everything to turn on when I wanted it to and program everything to happen simply by me walking in one direction or something. Maybe after standing up from prayers it'd turn on my TV to cinemax.  I mean, I have to stand up from prayers so it's not like I can avoid doing it. I didn't read anything about viewing... explicit material on sunday. That's not work is it?

[suicidaleggroll]

program everything to happen simply by me walking in one direction or something.

Except motion sensors still break the rule.  Unless, apparently, you stick a random number generator and timer on there so it waits a few seconds before it reacts...   

[phamuc]

Hey this thing could be made better. Why the need for a Sabbath mode switch. It should automatic switch to Sabbath mode, a little pic chip running a clock should know when it is the sabbath.
I am tempted to buy one and sent it to Dave for a tear-down Saturday. It would be ok, because Dave only tears-down things that are not powered   

[mikeselectricstuff]

..or you could just stop choosing to waste your life on rules that are so ridiculous you have to go to stupid lengths to subvert them.
Surely any attempt to "work round"  rules like this means you don't really believe in their value anyway, so just admit it instead of trying to pretend you're playing along.
Pathetic. Just pathetic. 

[Tallie]

Why not just leave the lights off and pray for God to turn one on when you need it...?

[GreyWoolfe]

My KitchenAid refrigerator has a Sabbath mode, but I haven't read the manual to see what it actually does.  I'm guessing it disables the lights.  Not really interested enough as I am not Jewish.

Why not just leave the lights off and pray for God to turn one on when you need it...?

Why not just leave the lights on in the kitchen and dining room and off in the bedrooms?   On my last job, I had to do a warranty repair on a laptop for an Orthodox Jewish family.  It was an afternoon service call on Friday and I had to be done by $5:00 no excuses.  I finished up and was out the door at 4:50 and got to enjoy a piece of fresh baked Challah bread, courtesy of the gentlemen's wife.  That was GOOD!

[Hydrawerk]

? ? ? ?

[zapta]

Tradition is a big thing in Jewish life but sometimes I wish that they could be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st Century.

German EE, I think they already got dragged enough kicking and screaming.

[G7PSK]

My father used to eat in a jewish restaurant when he worked in London in the 50's on Fridays he had to go next door to the dry cleaners which wasn't jewish and buy a ticket for lunch as jews are not allowed to handle money on the Sabbath.  Dont know how they got around the cooking though.

[rsjsouza]

In all fairness, this is absolutely brilliant! Captive market, all the approvals by the authorities (both spiritual and human), product ready to go... They will probably make some good money until one of the big companies (Leviton, Legrand, etc) enters this market (if that actually happens).

[tom66]

So... I'm not a religious person... I'm struggling to understand this. It's a random delay, so you move the switch, and the light comes on after a few seconds?

So, according to Jewish law, because your action did not directly induce some current to flow in a wire, that's OK? But can't it be said that you did induce a current, because the microcontroller/logic inside the switch will have changed states... even if that is a timer circuit, it's still got to start somehow. Uncertainty? What uncertainty? Does it use a quantum-decay RNG to decide whether you can use the light today?

 

Seems like two fingers firmly up to the lord Almighty to me.

And apparently you can't use filament bulbs because they are too similar to creating a "fire" (light via incandescence) yet CFLs/ energy savers are OK? Do they not know that CFLs use filaments to start? Are LEDs ok all the time?

...

[AndyC_772]

The sad part is that is one of the least harmful aspects of their craziness.

I've no problem with restrictions that people choose to apply to themselves, as long as they don't try to enforce those restrictions on anybody else.

Shame about the wasted energy from lights being left on, though. I wonder how much it amounts to in total, and how that compares to standby power and other, more conventionally accepted "wasted" power?

[zapta]

I've no problem with restrictions that people choose to apply to themselves, as long as they don't try to enforce those restrictions on anybody else.

Very well said.

[Sigmoid]

I think it's not nice to ridicule other people's religious practices, especially when they are this harmless.

But yea, European (Ashkenazi) Jews are fully cognizant of how weird this is, and self-irony is a huge part of their culture. Back in the days rich families employed a "Shabbat goy", that is a non-Jewish person whose role was to turn things on and off in their home on Shabbat.

[matseng]

This is a bit similar to Islamic banking where it's haram (forbidden) to charge interest for a loan so they change it to some kind of elaborate fees instead that gives the same end result, and suddenly it's halal (permitted).

[Bud]

Google for "Shabbat elevator".

[SeanB]

There was a recent fire which killed 7 children in brooklyn, caused by the family leaving a hotplate on for Shabbat. The plate apparently malfunctioned, and the fire alarm was 2 floors below the bedroom, so the 7 children were killed by smoke, while the husband, wife and eldest daughter escaped via a window.

[German_EE]

The ones who follow the rules to the letter are Hasidic Jews and are easy to spot, see the guy on the right:

http://m3.i.pbase.com/u23/automat42/upload/37024583.WaitingfortheBrooklynFerry.jpg

I once saw a guy dressed like that during a VERY hot day, somewhere between 35C and 40C, and he still looked cool despite the fur hat and overcoat. So, I asked him how he did it as I was suffering from the heat at the time. He just smiled and said "faith" then wished me good morning and went on his way. So, maybe there's something in it.

BTW, do you know why lots of Hasidic Jews drive Volvos? It's the only family car that you can drive whilst wearing a Homburg hat.