https://electrek.co/2017/07/14/porsche-350-kw-ev-charging-station/"They are using the CCS connector and while Porsche claims that it already has the backend to support 350 kW charge rate, it can currently charge at 50 to 150 kW until vehicles can support higher charge rates. They had to develop a new transformer in order to support the charge points."
"Most electric vehicle manufacturers have been backing the CCS standard since it has been working on a protocol to allow a 350 kW charge rate."
How can they manage so much power rate with the resistance of a removable connector?
Few milliohms raise in the resistance of the connector because of dust and / or oxidation would generate so much heat at that power rate that could bring easily to flames.
Is their claim purely advertising or do you think that result is achievable with a removable, end-user operated connector?
With a well engineered new connector you can basically choose your contact resistance and design to meet it. It's not like they are bound by any existing standards.
There is more than just porche working on it, see the wkipedia on the ccs connector.
Remember voltage factors into power delivered (IV), but effectivly not into losses in contact resistance (IIR). I don't know what voltage the connector is ultimately rated for.
Where is this 350 kW going to come from?
When will people realize how much better it would be to have standardized swappable batteries?
Grumble.
Must be raising the voltage to achieve that because 450A through that pissant cable doesn't seem safe. It'd be based on a similar system as Power Delivery and Quick Charge: default at a lower state until it gets the all clear so it should have no other safety issues.
They claim 800V , so about 450A... That is possible..
Problem is not in that.. Problem is that if you want to put only 10 of these to a parking lot that is 3.5 MW.. That's megawatts..
And if we all have electric cars, you won't need only 10 in one place.. You'll need more..
What are they going to do, put a miniature nuclear power plant on every parking lot for charging...
We had lots of problems getting 25 KVA power out in the field for a small Type 2 EV charger ..
Most of the time electrical company tells you they have to put a separate power transformer substation for your charger... If you're willing to pay...
Grid is currently not developed for this kinds of load, at least not where I live...
According to a report from the National Grid (UK's power distribution network) the UK will need the equivalent of 5 new nuclear power plants the size of Hinckley C to handle the increased demand for charging EVs (Electric Vehicles).
http://fes.nationalgrid.com/media/1253/final-fes-2017-updated-interactive-pdf-44-amended.pdf - Section 5.3
Peak demand
Between 2025 and 2045 we see the average annual increase in peak demand, solely from EVs, being about 1.3GW per year.
This additional demand plateaus after 2045, as saturation point is reached, with additional peak demand of about 30GW per year.
Currently total peak demand is 61GW.
They claim 800V , so about 450A... That is possible..
Problem is not in that.. Problem is that if you want to put only 10 of these to a parking lot that is 3.5 MW.. That's megawatts..
And if we all have electric cars, you won't need only 10 in one place.. You'll need more..
What are they going to do, put a miniature nuclear power plant on every parking lot for charging...
Solar roadways in the carpark.
Maybe I'm underestimating how much amp hour a car battery pack is, but is it even necessary to charge at such a high rate? Why not charge at a more normal rate that can use a 240v 30 amp outlet or something or even 120 15 amp? A typical use case is going to be that you plug it in when you get home from work, so even if it takes several hours or like 10 hours that would be acceptable. Probably easier on the battery too.
Maybe I'm underestimating how much amp hour a car battery pack is, but is it even necessary to charge at such a high rate? Why not charge at a more normal rate that can use a 240v 30 amp outlet or something or even 120 15 amp? A typical use case is going to be that you plug it in when you get home from work, so even if it takes several hours or like 10 hours that would be acceptable. Probably easier on the battery too.
Because you want to stop at a "gas/petrol" type station for 2 minutes to get charged and go.
My Chevy Bolt has a 60 kWh battery and should go for about 200 miles - weather contributing. It is rated at 160 kW so as not to starve the 150 kW motor. So, about 200 HP...
There are a number of charging alternatives but the little portable charger that comes with the car runs on a 120V 15A circuit so, at best, it is 1.5 kW. It takes a while to charge the battery if it gets very far down.
I also have a 7 kW (?) charger that requires 240V at 30A and commercial establishments (like Walgreen's in my area) have larger and faster chargers. GM recommends an 80 kW charger to ensure a consistent 50 kW rate.
One of the cool things I haven't tried (and probably won't) is "one pedal driving". No need to use the brake pedal, just ease up on the gas. I don't know how it would work in an "oh my god" situation. The car does have all kinds of automatic braking features.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_BoltGM tamed it down to 266 lb-ft of torque after complaints of "lively" acceleration in the lighter Chevy Spark EV with over 400 lb-ft. I miss that car...
All in, I don't see how the grid can support massive numbers of EVs. As it is, PG&E has some kind of special rate for EV owners but we haven't even considered applying. Somehow, it always seems that their new rates cost us more money!
I don't really expect a huge number of EVs any time soon. In my town, I have only seen one other Spark EV and a couple of Chevy Bolts. They're not sales leaders. Range is the issue; the Spark EV was only good for 80 miles and the Bolt for around 200. There are times when 200 isn't enough or, rather, even if it were, the time to recharge is too long to get to work the next day. Maybe when employers start installing charging stations. Don't count on it, the cost will be HUGE!
Maybe I'm underestimating how much amp hour a car battery pack is, but is it even necessary to charge at such a high rate? Why not charge at a more normal rate that can use a 240v 30 amp outlet or something or even 120 15 amp? A typical use case is going to be that you plug it in when you get home from work, so even if it takes several hours or like 10 hours that would be acceptable. Probably easier on the battery too.
Because you want to stop at a "gas/petrol" type station for 2 minutes to get charged and go.
Tesla is arranging for stations to just swap the battery pack. Like I would give up my brand new pack for some old POS...
how are they going to make that idiot proof? I smell lawsuit material when someone does something stupid with 350kW.
Tesla is arranging for stations to just swap the battery pack. Like I would give up my brand new pack for some old POS...
Why in the world wouldn't you? The battery's performance history will be precisely characterized and monitored.
What's the point of owning a battery?
Tesla is arranging for stations to just swap the battery pack. Like I would give up my brand new pack for some old POS...
Why in the world wouldn't you? The battery's performance history will be precisely characterized and monitored.
What's the point of owning a battery?
So, I drive my brand new Tesla right off the showroom floor and head south to LA. Somewhere along the way I stop into a charging station and they swap my brand new battery for the one somebody with 100k miles left for charging. Somehow, I don't think so. Now, if my car had the 100k miles, sure, I might take a chance.
The battery on the far lesser Chevy Bolt will cost $15k to replace and I think I heard that the Tesla battery packs is about $45k. I see a black market forming on the horizon. Right now they steal catalytic converters but that is chump change compared to the cost of batteries. Like stealing copper wire, the devil will be in the details. Gotta make sure to not get fried!
https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/tesla-model-s-85kw-battery-replacement-cost
They need to come up with some standards for charging stations (ex: the plugs/voltage) and the battery packs. What would be neat is if they have a few different sizes, but for normal cars they would be small battery packs that can be lifted by one person, and they would slide in somewhere on the car and have a backplane. Most vehicles would have several of them in parallel. This could also make electric cars cheaper, as someone like me who mostly just sticks to driving in town I could get away with like 30km range. They could then have exchange programs that you can choose to use if you want, great if you're out of town. Or you could have spare battery packs on hand at home etc. They could perhaps even treat it like a rental, depending on the service you choose. Ex: you drop off your battery but choose the service where they keep it and charge it for you, and rent you another. You come back another time and get your battery back. Or you could do a full exchange. They could offer various options. These services would be ideal for people from out of town, for example. Normally you'd just charge at home after work. heck a lot of these stations could be practically in the middle of nowhere and run off mostly renewable energy, solar panels and wind turbine. The battery packs that are sitting on the chargers would literally be THE battery packs for the building itself. There would always be batteries on the go, with some that are fully charged. The station would pretty much run itself.
You could also buy extras to have at home on a charger that's ready to go. You can either plug the car in the charger or plug the battery in the charger. All the interconnects would be standard. Idealy, the charging logic would be in the battery pack itself, that would allow to only have 4 large terminals, 2 would be to power the car, and 2 would be for charging, the internal circuitry would then manage the balancing of each individual cell pack. Either make the voltage very standard, or have a standard comm port for the charger, that would dictate how much current is being put in so the pack knows how much to draw, but I'm thinking having a strict standard voltage would be best bet, then all the charger needs to do to dictate current is to lower voltage, ex: current limiting, then the internal pack knows to dial down how much it's drawing. At a charging station you would then have the option to pick the charge rate you want and pay more for faster, for example, and that would simply alter the current limit rate of the charger. Chargers on a certain breaker size such as 15 amp would then current limit accordingly to maximize use of that circuit. A
charger would really just be a power supply, it would be up to the battery pack itself to manage charging. This would even allow for different battery tech to be introduced in the future without having to change the charger infrastructure/standard. Would open a lot of doors.
Basically make a few standard battery pack formats where the size/connection and voltage is standard, the rest is up to the vehicle/battery pack. Could even have some NI-MH ones that are cheaper but much lower capacity.
Of course something like this would need to be very well engineered for safety too, if you have average people handling these. But it's not really any different than jerry cans. you're always going to have idiots filling their lawnmower with a cig in their mouth and having gas spilling everywhere and practically blow themselves up.
So, I drive my brand new Tesla right off the showroom floor and head south to LA. Somewhere along the way I stop into a charging station and they swap my brand new battery for the one somebody with 100k miles left for charging. Somehow, I don't think so. Now, if my car had the 100k miles, sure, I might take a chance.
The battery on the far lesser Chevy Bolt will cost $15k to replace and I think I heard that the Tesla battery packs is about $45k. I see a black market forming on the horizon. Right now they steal catalytic converters but that is chump change compared to the cost of batteries. Like stealing copper wire, the devil will be in the details. Gotta make sure to not get fried!
https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/tesla-model-s-85kw-battery-replacement-cost
The point is that you wouldn't own the battery. When it shits itself, you get a new one for free. Or, more likely, when a battery gets close to EOL, it gets swallowed by the charging station and picked up for recycling.
You'd "simply" pay a usage fee on top of the kWh cost to recharge it. Recharging it at home would still incur that cost, just with the power billed on your normal power bill. And yes, I know Tesla offers free supercharging; this is strictly for future vehicles.
GM tamed it down to 266 lb-ft of torque after complaints of "lively" acceleration in the lighter Chevy Spark EV with over 400 lb-ft. I miss that car...
Or more likely they needed to make room for a way more profitable "sport edition" sometime in the future. Making a car "Tesla-like" is a good selling point.
Maybe I'm underestimating how much amp hour a car battery pack is, but is it even necessary to charge at such a high rate? Why not charge at a more normal rate that can use a 240v 30 amp outlet or something or even 120 15 amp? A typical use case is going to be that you plug it in when you get home from work, so even if it takes several hours or like 10 hours that would be acceptable. Probably easier on the battery too.
Because you want to stop at a "gas/petrol" type station for 2 minutes to get charged and go.
That's the killer for the current (pun, natch
) crop of EVs, the time it takes to charge. It's fine if you only commute a few miles a day as I do now but it completely rules out a spur of the moment trip to Cornwall or Scotland or wherever because I just can't guarantee I will find a charge point or that I will be around for long enough to let the vehicle charge enough to get me home.
With liquid or gas I can fill the tank in a couple of minutes.
We need Mr Fusion!
So, I drive my brand new Tesla right off the showroom floor and head south to LA. Somewhere along the way I stop into a charging station and they swap my brand new battery for the one somebody with 100k miles left for charging. Somehow, I don't think so. Now, if my car had the 100k miles, sure, I might take a chance.
The battery on the far lesser Chevy Bolt will cost $15k to replace and I think I heard that the Tesla battery packs is about $45k. I see a black market forming on the horizon. Right now they steal catalytic converters but that is chump change compared to the cost of batteries. Like stealing copper wire, the devil will be in the details. Gotta make sure to not get fried!
https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/tesla-model-s-85kw-battery-replacement-cost
The point is that you wouldn't own the battery. When it shits itself, you get a new one for free. Or, more likely, when a battery gets close to EOL, it gets swallowed by the charging station and picked up for recycling.
You'd "simply" pay a usage fee on top of the kWh cost to recharge it. Recharging it at home would still incur that cost, just with the power billed on your normal power bill. And yes, I know Tesla offers free supercharging; this is strictly for future vehicles.
That doesn't sound right. If the battery pack is $45k, that represents 15k gallons of gas (more or less) and at 25 MPG, I could drive for 375k miles. Why would I buy an electric car if I had to concern myself with battery pack depreciation. In fact, that's why I leased both the Spark EV and the Bolt. I don't want to get into the battery replacement part of the life cycle. The batteries are guaranteed for 8 years for the Chevy but that still amounts to having to add about $150/month to the cost of the car.
As to cost to operate: Chevy is thinking 3 miles per kWh when they rate the battery life. A kWh around here is about $0.36 so we're driving for $0.12/mile. It was better at the old house where we had solar. A kWh cost $0.15 so $0.05 per mile. My grandson could drive like a senior citizen and get as much as 7 miles/kWh so that was a little over $0.02/mile. Now we're talking!
My truck gets about 17 MPG so it costs about $0.18/mile. The electric car isn't a substantially cheaper way to go (33%) but it is more fun. Driving the Spark EV low and slow would result in 1/9th the cost of the truck.
As long as gasoline is in the $3/gal range (used above), I'm not sure a battery car saves enough money to matter. I don't drive much so I can't save much. It could be argued that I should sell them both and just bicycle the 3k miles/year. But here's the thing: I'm a retired EE, of course I want a battery car!
The reason they tamed down the Bolt from the Spark EV is the traction control setup shifts the drive from side to side as a function of wheel slip. This tends to make the car veer one way or the other at a fairly fast rate. Folks aren't used to this, particularly us rear wheel drive types. I don't care if the back end steps out on a rear wheel drive car but keeping up with the moving torque on the front wheel drive takes a little more concentration. And then there is "Sport" mode on both cars...
They claim 800V , so about 450A... That is possible..
Problem is not in that.. Problem is that if you want to put only 10 of these to a parking lot that is 3.5 MW.. That's megawatts..
And if we all have electric cars, you won't need only 10 in one place.. You'll need more..
This is absolutely true; even in a little city would be unsustainable, so can we say that fast charge electric cars are only apparently ecologic and unpractical?
