Remember printers with countdowns? now washing machines?

[Simon]

I was thinking the logistics of manufacture would favour an all in one plug and play unit. But yes the controller does not have to go on the motor and I work with such motors at work and they are a nuisance.

[nctnico]

Next time buy a Miele. Ours is getting close to 20 years and is probably clocking somewhere around 7000 washes. It is still going strong although it had some minor problems (shock absorbers, inlet valve and sealing collar around the drum) which where cheap & easy to fix by myself. Getting the parts is easy as well. I'll keep it running until it is beyond economical repair.

[wraper]

Next time buy a Miele. Ours is getting close to 20 years and is probably clocking somewhere around 7000 washes. It is still going strong although it had some minor problems (shock absorbers, inlet valve and sealing collar around the drum) which where cheap & easy to fix by myself. Getting the parts is easy as well. I'll keep it running until it is beyond economical repair.

But at the same price you could just  replace washing machine with new every 4 years.

[JohnnyMalaria]

Next time buy a Miele. Ours is getting close to 20 years and is probably clocking somewhere around 7000 washes. It is still going strong although it had some minor problems (shock absorbers, inlet valve and sealing collar around the drum) which where cheap & easy to fix by myself. Getting the parts is easy as well. I'll keep it running until it is beyond economical repair.

I've repaired my 1997 Kenmore washer and dryer pair a couple of times. Cheap? Yup. Easy? Usually. Frustrating? Sometimes.

[Stray Electron]

   The circuit board in my old $250 digital washer cost over $150 and after replacing it twice I swore that I'd never buy another washer that uses digital controls.  It took some searching but I finally found a washer made by Speed Queen that still uses real switches and electromechanical timer. They're hard to find since Speed Queen makes commercial washers and usually doesn't sell them for home use. 

   Digital technology is fine but ONLY if it's well built and durable and as long as the manufacturer doesn't have the attitude that he can rape you on the price of repair parts!

[wraper]

It took some searching but I finally found a washer made by Speed Queen that still uses real switches and electromechanical timer. They're hard to find since Speed Queen makes commercial washers and usually doesn't sell them for home use. 

That mechanical crap is much less reliable than average electronic controller.

The circuit board in my old $250 digital washer

And price is the answer for why it failed.

Digital technology is fine but ONLY if it's well built and durable

What did you expect for $250?
BTW who prohibited you to do component level repair and save at least 90% of the new controller cost?

[madires]

I'd guess 1600rpm provide a nice vibration test for solder joints or connectors. Add cheap electrolytic caps in the SMPSU and you got a winner These issues are easy to fix.

[MT]

The counter on printers is for the consumables to stop refilling. It isn't on the printer itself.

There is also a counter for waste ink tank on inkjet printers.

I do not want to know whats in the wasmachine waste tank please!

[BillB]

I have an expensive, fancy washing machine that is a piece of junk.  It is truly a marvel of cost engineering - everything that can be made of plastic is, and not much consideration was given the to the vibration rich environment.  It is plagued with piss-poor connectors that shake loose or weaken and break connecting wires.   

Fortunately, there isn't much to these machines.  It's a standard BLDC design, a couple of pumps, motor, control board, separate interface board, and a few hoses.  I've probably changed out just about everything in it over the years: stator, controller, pumps, drum shaft, bearings, springs.   

I can't stand to part with it though.  They wife yells that it's broken again, and like a race-car pit mechanic I've got it on its back all torn apart asking her to time me to see how quick I can get it fixed.  She's wanted to replace that thing for years.   

   



   

[Kjelt]

I have a Miele and it malfunctioned after two years, service tech came and already knew the cause just by asking one question: do you run the machine at 90C at least once a month?
No we did not, 90C is for white linnen and out of fashion stuff no one uses anymore but the machine relied on it to clean the washing powder/liquid pipework.
So now we have to poor boiling water in it once per month to clean the pipes and never had apoblem again. Other remedy would be to use the washing ball instead of the drawer.
Anyway I don't understand why this is not in the manual or a built in "clean run" function, any semi-automatic espresso machine has this built in.

[nctnico]

I have a Miele and it malfunctioned after two years, service tech came and already knew the cause just by asking one question: do you run the machine at 90C at least once a month?
No we did not, 90C is for white linnen and out of fashion stuff no one uses anymore but the machine relied on it to clean the washing powder/liquid pipework.

Then you are washing at too low temperatures indeed. I clean ours two or three times per year using a short 90 degrees program and use soda to clean the internals (no laundry). This is common for any washing machine.

[rdl]

Then you are washing at too low temperatures indeed. I clean ours two or three times per year using a short 90 degrees program and use soda to clean the internals (no laundry). This is common for any washing machine.

Coke or Pepsi?


Actually, what kind of soda do you mean?

[wraper]

Coke or Pepsi?

Actually, what kind of soda do you mean?

Nobody except Americans drinks soda  .

[glarsson]

This is soda: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_carbonate

[Kjelt]

This is common for any washing machine.

Then why is it not in the manual?
Even with cars they say to change the oil even when everyone knows this.

[rdl]

I was just kidding, but any time a chemical is referred to by a common name there can be confusion. I see it here most often with solvents. The word "soda" has multiple meanings even in chemistry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soda

For the record, I've never used "soda" to describe something you'd drink. That usage seems to be much more common in some areas of the country than in others.

[CJay]

Coke or Pepsi?

Actually, what kind of soda do you mean?

Nobody except Americans drinks soda  .

It's used in parts of the UK too.

Washing Soda would have been a more useful term.

[NivagSwerdna]

IMHO This is a very unsatisfactory thread 

The OP did not explain the issue sufficiently.

In my limited experience Washing Machines have a pump located near the bottom front of the machine and in the same location is an access hole (and often a drain pipe).  Failure to pump out is due to pump having died, pump being restricted due to foreign body, drain hose being clogged with accrued gunk or pump not operating due to controller issue.  There is probably a sensor for water level too... not so sure about those.

In our household the normal failure mode is due to a hair band (stretchy elastic thing) that has got itself wound around the impeller.

Next time you have a similar fault drop me a line; I'll be sure to charge you around 49% of the machine cost.   

[CJay]

There is probably a sensor for water level too... not so sure about those.

Usually a pressure switch at the top of the drum attached via a narrow bore piece of pipe to the 'bottom' of the pump, water in increases the pressure in the pipe, water out and the pressure releases.

If the pipe gets gunked up it doesn't drop fast enough and the machine flags a fault.

Same fix, hot wash or two with soda crystals. 

[stj]

This is common for any washing machine.

Then why is it not in the manual?
Even with cars they say to change the oil even when everyone knows this.

depends on the brand.
BEKO machines have a manual that states clearly to inspect the pump-filter monthly and to flush the machine with cleaner at 90' several times a year.

[schmitt trigger]

As others have observed here and in other forums, cheap plastic components, relentless cost reductions and fancy electronics are creating a vast array of short lived, disposable products.

Unfortunately, this is creeping into the highest valued consumer product: the automobile.

[tooki]

It took some searching but I finally found a washer made by Speed Queen that still uses real switches and electromechanical timer. They're hard to find since Speed Queen makes commercial washers and usually doesn't sell them for home use. 

That mechanical crap is much less reliable than average electronic controller.

The circuit board in my old $250 digital washer

And price is the answer for why it failed.

Digital technology is fine but ONLY if it's well built and durable

What did you expect for $250?

Then you disagree with every repairman I have ever spoken to, or otherwise heard comment on the matter: they’ve consistently singled out the electronics as a major point of failure, and one that never failed in old machines. The mechanical timers are robust. They were replaced with electronic first in high end models because it enabled fancy features. Mechanical timers remained in low end washers (despite costing more to make than electronic controllers) to differentiate the fancy ones. Later they moved to cheaper appliances.

Price seems to make little to no difference: the electronic controller in the $4000 washer in my old apartment failed and had to be replaced. (I know that one anecdote is not data.)

[kaz911]

My recent white goods experience :

Samsung

New fancy Samsung washing machine failed twice in two year..


First failure - after 7 days or so - hose clamp came off. Know issue - Samsung sent engineer out with better hose system

2nd failure - Electronics Board stopped working with WiFi  (I know - but it is nice to get alert that washing is finished)

3nd failure - First engineer did not know how to install new hose system in Failure 1  - they have "fancy" close mechanism on the hoses - but repair guy did not know how to use it -  so he used two tiny 4mm wide zip ties strung together to reach all the way around the hose...  That of course failed. I repaired that myself as wait would have been about 2 week to get appointment. When engineers arrived I told them I fixed it - and what I did and showed them pictures of what they did last time. They signed off on my repair as it was embarrassing  and my warranty is still intact *G*


Fisher & Paykel:
New super fridge - but was so loud you could not talk in the kitchen. Asked for replacement. Replacement arrived - very damaged from factory. Sent both back for refund. Cleaned our OLD F&P fridge up that has traveled the world with us - and put it back in service.

FIsher & Paykel:
New dishwasher (fancy 2 in 1 dishwasher) - actually great when you have children. But main board showed fault after about 3 weeks. Engineer came after the obligatory 2 weeks - replaced the board - and left the old board with me. No issues since.

So - so far no new white goods without failures...... (oh apart from Extractor fan - that works - so far no issues - NEFF brand)

[glarsson]

Samsung

There's your problem. What did you expect? Quality? 

2nd failure - Electronics Board stopped working with WiFi  (I know - but it is nice to get alert that washing is finished)

You can get notifications without WiFi. My washer use a lower frequency band that can be received by the two receivers integrated into my head.

[schmitt trigger]

 
extra-ultra-very low frequency, indeed!