Review request. Jaycar Mini DMM.

[SeanB]

I have a few assorted ones. Most are at least accurate on the DC ranges, and the AC ranges are good enough to tell if the voltage is there or not and roughly how much. The pcb switches tend to survive, i have killed a few from overrange on one input or the other, and that is far more likely then it failing due to a switch. They tend to use thin tracks so they act as a fuse. Mine often have a pack of glass fuses inside to change out, as i often am using low voltage, AC current is handled by one of the clamp meters I have. Last meter I bought is an Iso Tech ICM-A9clamp meter, class III rated and pretty much idiot proof - it only has one button to do everything, and autosenses and switches.

[LEECH666]

@FenderBender
I took those M830B pictures without a tripod, the cam close to my light source (one of those bench lights with a ring shaped fluorescent light bulb and a magnifying lens in the middle).

In case you don't already use the macro mode I suggest you try to activate it on your cam. It really helps to get sharp close up pictures. It's usually indicated by an icon that's shaped like a little flower.

Like this:



Anyway, thanks for the teardown, looks like the Klein MM200 is a rebadged MS8233E.

And I agree with what tom66 said, but when I see 600V ratings on the case of my M830B I have to slightly scratch my head in disbelief.

Cheers,
Florian


//EDIT: Took a closer look at your review, and it looks like you're already using macro mode.

[Uncle Vernon]

How does dangerous things such as this and cheapo wallwart get to be sold in local shop? Is there no govern body who regulates such devices in this nanny country?

Are you referring to governments that have made it illegal for old ladies to sell anything electrical at a CWA charity bazaars without instigating an (at their cost) Test-N-Tag? Or the governments that will allow anyone with gold teeth and ambition to sell container loads of untested crap provided it has a photocopied suitability certificate signed by the $1 a day off-shore worker known as Fu?

If you value your ability to continue breathing I, wouldn't be chance your safety on the confused interference regimes government have seen fit to enforce.  #idiots #incompetents   

[Uncle Vernon]

Recommending these and similar meters as OK for beginners and breadboard applications is incredibly poor advice. Even at that level you require something you can trust!
Forgetting accuracy which is probably OK enough for such applications, on the good days when the things can produce a reading without application a percussion and also assuming they are kept the hell away from mains or other high energy applications such meters will still remain a source of confusion and frustration.

Reliability is not there and they are simply a PITA you'll spend waste large amounts of time jiggling switches, thumping the things on benches, pressing the edges of the display and re-soldering dodgy wire back onto dodgy test probes.

These pieces of crap are unfit for purpose and should not be available for sale! There is no way to ensure they wont be used near mains supply and there is no way they are anything but a frustrating waste of $5 a beginner could have put towards the $50 odd, they'll need to shell out for something that is trustworthy and worth using.

Sorry Jaycar but stocking and/or promoting such garbage at any price demonstrates contempt for your customers! 

[vk6zgo]

How does dangerous things such as this and cheapo wallwart get to be sold in local shop? Is there no govern body who regulates such devices in this nanny country?

Are you referring to governments that have made it illegal for old ladies to sell anything electrical at a CWA charity bazaars without instigating an (at their cost) Test-N-Tag? Or the governments that will allow anyone with gold teeth and ambition to sell container loads of untested crap provided it has a photocopied suitability certificate signed by the $1 a day off-shore worker known as Fu?

If you value your ability to continue breathing I, wouldn't be chance your safety on the confused interference regimes government have seen fit to enforce.  #idiots #incompetents

It's all due to the wonders of International trade!

This has been going on for a long time,though.

Back in the days of the "CB Boom",when every corner shop was pushing those infernal machines,they were completely illegal to use,but at the same time,perfectly legal to import,as to restrict the importation of them would be Shock!,Horror!-"A restraint of trade!"

The same thing applies to baby's bassinets.
There used to be an Australian standard about how far apart the vertical bars were on these things,plus stabiliuty & a few other things---another restraint of trade,so it had to go!

[tom66]

re Uncle Vernon,

Whilst I agree they are not the best meter (by a long shot), I used one for two years whilst I was learning electronics theory - GCSE mostly. It was the genuine Mastech DT830B model, though - one sold at Maplins for £4.99. It was perfectly reliable until I dropped it which messed up the range switch. What else can you expect for a fiver. I later bought a cheap Mastech autoranger for about £20 - which survived 230V on ohms, and frequency scales (as well as measuring mains voltage on the AC volts scale) - until I accidentally blew its main IC by connecting 9V battery into the output of the 3.3V regulator... oops (was changing the battery at the time.) Then I decided I needed a decent, safe meter so got a B+K 2709B.

Of course there is no way to ensure they won't be used on mains circuits, and I completely agree that any indication on the meter itself that this is a safe thing to do shouldn't be there.  However, the lack of them would be a disadvantage to newcomers to the field.

Oh, and may I point out the Agilent U1271A has many problems with "going crazy" measuring high voltages with the probes shorted? So would you rule out Agilent now? My uni lab is full of these meters and about half of them have the defect. Some QC there, Agilent.

[FenderBender]

@FenderBender
I took those M830B pictures without a tripod, the cam close to my light source (one of those bench lights with a ring shaped fluorescent light bulb and a magnifying lens in the middle).

In case you don't already use the macro mode I suggest you try to activate it on your cam. It really helps to get sharp close up pictures. It's usually indicated by an icon that's shaped like a little flower.

Like this:



Anyway, thanks for the teardown, looks like the Klein MM200 is a rebadged MS8233E.

And I agree with what tom66 said, but when I see 600V ratings on the case of my M830B I have to slightly scratch my head in disbelief.

Cheers,
Florian


//EDIT: Took a closer look at your review, and it looks like you're already using macro mode.

Oh come on! You think I'm on this forum and don't know what the macro mode on a camera is? 

The camera was a budget camera 5 years ago so it's just a little lacking to start with. I really couldn't tell if I took a good shot judging by the 2" display!

[Uncle Vernon]

re Uncle Vernon,

Whilst I agree they are not the best meter (by a long shot),

Not suitable for intended purpose.

I used one for two years whilst I was learning electronics theory

You have my sympathy, glad your situation eventually improved. Is this the grandpa argument? The one that goes along the lines of "in my day we walked 20 miles miles to fetch polluted water from a well and all younger folks should do the same to know they are alive".

It was perfectly reliable until I dropped it which messed up the range switch.

If it wasn't a drop it would have been heat or humidity or looking at it sideways on a Tuesday. Like I said unfit for intended purpose.

What else can you expect for a fiver.

A double whopper with extra saturated fats. Certainly I don't expect to get any useful tools or equipment for that price.

....... until I accidentally blew its .......  Then I decided I needed a decent, safe meter

Should have saved your money and purchased something adequate for the task at the onset.

Of course there is no way to ensure they won't be used on mains circuits

Which is a very compelling reason why they should not be on the market. Electrical professionals and hobbyist may be aware of the ramifications of applications of CAT ratings but others most certainly are not. It wouldn't be the first time one of these death traps has been purchased by a plumber or carpenter thinking it will be a cheap and useful safety tester for their workplace.

and I completely agree that any indication on the meter itself that this is a safe thing to do shouldn't be there.

If such devices are to be sold they should be limited to a measurement range that within ELV range and should be indelibly marked "NOT FOR USE WITH MAINS POWER OR HIGH ENERGY CIRCUITS"

  However, the lack of them would be a disadvantage to newcomrs to the field.

It is here I think you are very wrong. Any potentially unreliable instrument is a positive hindrance and discouragement for newcomers. It is sad that almost every so called beginners kit comes complete with a crap meter and a POS underpowered corded soldering iron with a tip the size of your elbow. 
If someone wished to get into motor sport would people suggest a Robin Reliant and a set of Bargain shop screwdrivers? You don't need the best of everything but you certainly need competent equipment for any pursuit particularly when your personal skill levels may not be particularly high.

Oh, and may I point out the Agilent U1271A has many problems with "going crazy"

You can if you wish but it is a pointless comparison. That meter is hardly one to recommend for a beginner. That Agilent and its probes are electrically safe despite the software errors in early revisions being potentially dangerous or destructive.

So would you rule out Agilent now?

Not at all but I wouldn't be recommending a 1270 series to a newcomer even one with corrected firmware. Their 1230 series meters would be exactly the kind of instrument I would recommend for a newcomer. Safe, well made, cheap and reliable. If you cannot spring for $50 for your prime multimeter you should perhaps avoid electricity and electronics until the situation improves. If $5 is your budget for a meter you cannot afford to do projects anyway.

[tom66]

> Not suitable for intended purpose.

For measuring under 20V DC, perfectly fine. For measuring mains - don't even think about it.

> If it wasn't a drop it would have been heat or humidity or looking at it sideways on a Tuesday. Like I said unfit for intended purpose.

Of course, but why would I care if my meter got broken? I always check it whenever I'm unsure of readings on a known source. As long as I'm not doing mains work, the reliability of the meter is simply an inconvenience (and convinces me to buy a better one eventually.)

> A double whopper with extra saturated fats. Certainly I don't expect to get any useful tools or equipment for that price.

Hmm, I was in 99p stores and picked up some more cheap tat -- including a set of wire stripper/cutters (that work reasonably well) and a nice pair of plyers. I even got some small (watch style?) screwdrivers (pack of 15 various sizes) but I discovered why they were so cheap: the shaft doesn't extend all the way into the handle. Broke two of them trying to get a small screw out -- but I know not to buy them again.

> Should have saved your money and purchased something adequate for the task at the onset.

I spent around £85 on getting the BK meter about 2 years ago. When I had a cheap meter it was only because getting a good meter was a large investment for myself. This was about 6 years ago when my only income was £20 pocket money. Most of that went on components and breadboards. Now I'm a poor student. I'm glad I saved up my money from my internship and got some decent equipment when I could afford it.

> Which is a very compelling reason why they should not be on the market. Electrical professionals and hobbyist may be aware of the ramifications of applications of CAT ratings but others most certainly are not. It wouldn't be the first time one of these death traps has been purchased by a plumber or carpenter thinking it will be a cheap and useful safety tester for their workplace.

Then they are uneducated. If they couldn't buy it from the cheap store down the road, they would pick it up on ebay. And if that failed, they might not do any testing at all -- more preferable?

> If such devices are to be sold they should be limited to a measurement range that within ELV range and should be indelibly marked "NOT FOR USE WITH MAINS POWER OR HIGH ENERGY CIRCUITS"

I believe -- can't find the particular product right now -- but there is a meter available from China which is being developed by the same company that makes the DT830B clones, attempting to make one that would pass safety guidlines. It is CAT I rated to around 200V and only has a fused 200mA range. It has no range capable of 230V measurement and has a better fuse for the 200mA range. Possibly other features, too.

> You can if you wish but it is a pointless comparison. That meter is hardly one to recommend for a beginner. That Agilent and its probes are electrically safe despite the software errors in early revisions being potentially dangerous or destructive.

In this case it's not firmware, but the range switch at fault, as far as we have determined on the thread. Also, some other Agilent scopes and spectrum analysers have started dying in our lab. 

[LEECH666]

@FenderBender
I took those M830B pictures without a tripod, the cam close to my light source (one of those bench lights with a ring shaped fluorescent light bulb and a magnifying lens in the middle).

In case you don't already use the macro mode I suggest you try to activate it on your cam. It really helps to get sharp close up pictures. It's usually indicated by an icon that's shaped like a little flower.

Like this:



Anyway, thanks for the teardown, looks like the Klein MM200 is a rebadged MS8233E.

And I agree with what tom66 said, but when I see 600V ratings on the case of my M830B I have to slightly scratch my head in disbelief.

Cheers,
Florian


//EDIT: Took a closer look at your review, and it looks like you're already using macro mode.

Oh come on! You think I'm on this forum and don't know what the macro mode on a camera is? 

The camera was a budget camera 5 years ago so it's just a little lacking to start with. I really couldn't tell if I took a good shot judging by the 2" display!

Sorry I was crossreading this forum and the german mikrocontroller.net one, and for whatever reason there are a lot of people there that newer ever heard of a macro function, but yes it came to me after I posted that my post is rather silly. This is an electronics forum after all.

Hope I didn't offend you.

[FenderBender]

@FenderBender
I took those M830B pictures without a tripod, the cam close to my light source (one of those bench lights with a ring shaped fluorescent light bulb and a magnifying lens in the middle).

In case you don't already use the macro mode I suggest you try to activate it on your cam. It really helps to get sharp close up pictures. It's usually indicated by an icon that's shaped like a little flower.

Like this:



Anyway, thanks for the teardown, looks like the Klein MM200 is a rebadged MS8233E.

And I agree with what tom66 said, but when I see 600V ratings on the case of my M830B I have to slightly scratch my head in disbelief.

Cheers,
Florian


//EDIT: Took a closer look at your review, and it looks like you're already using macro mode.

Oh come on! You think I'm on this forum and don't know what the macro mode on a camera is? 

The camera was a budget camera 5 years ago so it's just a little lacking to start with. I really couldn't tell if I took a good shot judging by the 2" display!

Sorry I was crossreading this forum and the german mikrocontroller.net one, and for whatever reason there are a lot of people there that newer ever heard of a macro function, but yes it came to me after I posted that my post is rather silly. This is an electronics forum after all.

Hope I didn't offend you.

No you didn't. I was completely saying that jokingly.

[ftransform]

LMFAO @ ROBIN RELIANT HAHAHAH

[T4P]

Uh yeah.

[SeanB]

Every farmer has either rolled a tractor or come close.

[tom66]

I feel it necessary to point out, as an Englishman, that it is a Reliant Robin, not a Robin Reliant.
 

[bullet308]

I like my small pile of little $4 Chinese meters. I find they work surprisingly well for a lot of applications. Several were purchased when I needed a meter for a job quickly and cheaply when no other was available. Great to toss in the trunk of the car or (especially) to hack them into one-off panel meters.

Not that I would want to rely on them the way I do my Extechs, Hamegs, Simpsons, et al. And I sure as hell wouldnt want to get anywhere near mains with them.

[dr_p]

I still have one of those meters, my first meter, gift from my dad, 15 years ago. I was learning about voltage, current, diodes, resistors, LEDs etc. It proved to be quite helpful for the ultra-beginner I was. Never worked on mains, maybe measured 220Vac once or twice. Popped dozens of 200mA fuses, though Both of us are still alive and kicking, though I admit I only used it for 4 years and on top of that I am extremely careful with my stuff.

I agree with all of you, crappy INSTRUMENT but useful GADGET / TOY.

What I'm trying to say here is that when all your electronics-related stuff are worth 10$ altogether and your most valued possession is an op-amp , you will not buy a 50$ meter. Agreed that one has to learn to value proper tools and test equipment, but that is relative to his need for such equipment. And I believe the need comes from passion, commitment and ultimately proper understanding of EE, more precisely the limitations and risks that the crappy meter involves.

[m12lrpv]

I'm still kicking on with my budget meter which is probably 15+ years old now and while I'd love to upgrade to something better I really cannot justify it due to the simple fact that the meter works and works well.

As it stands I see a $50 meter as a complete waste of money as it has all of the limitations of the $5 and no benefits that I want. Certainly I had the opportunity to test a more expensive meter next to mine and to be honest it was less accurate (which is all I care about) when it came to measuring voltage references and high tolerance resistors.


Like most $5 DMM's sold to it's target market it's never been connected to anything more than 20V DC so it's really a stretch to criticise them as not suitable for sale simply because their usage model doesn't live up to someone's lofty standards.

You don't need a HumVee to travel 50 meters to the corner store when a bicycle or your feet can do the job. Likewise you don't need a super $$$ DMM when a $5 meter is more than adequate for testing batteries and measuring resistance.

[T4P]

Well, i would be very interested which 50$ meter that has the limitations of a 5$ meter.
About the hummer

[m12lrpv]

Well, i would be very interested which 50$ meter that has the limitations of a 5$ meter.

It was borrowed from a friend because I needed two meters. I don't recall the make and model but I know that it was a mid range product. The owner is a lift mechanic and used it as a backup meter (to his fluke) at work.

[vk6zgo]

Back in the day,people came equipped with a strange organ in their head,called a brain.

This device prevented them from doing things like putting Multimeters on the Ohms,or Amps range across the mains,by a characteristic  known as intelligence,which operated using a process known as thinking.

Due to economic restraints,the Creator has found it impossible to continue to provide brains,so that DMMs need to be designed for use by people who do not possess one of these now obsolete organs.

[Uncle Vernon]

As it stands I see a $50 meter as a complete waste of money as it has all of the limitations of the $5 and no benefits that I want.

As always you are entitled to continue to dwell in ignorance?

Certainly I had the opportunity to test a more expensive meter next to mine and to be honest it was less accurate (which is all I care about) when it came to measuring voltage references and high tolerance resistors.

How the hell an you know which was accurate when the extent of your test lab capabilities is a lucky dip meter.

Like most $5 DMM's sold to it's target market it's never been connected to anything more than 20V DC

And of course you have evidence to support this claim? Or like a $5 meter you are simply taking wild guesses?

so it's really a stretch to criticise them as not suitable for sale simply because their usage model doesn't live up to someone's lofty standards.

Or is the stretch really your choice to ignore the advice of your peers and industry bodies. You have read the forum author's advice on such equipment?

You don't need a HumVee to travel 50 meters to the corner store when a bicycle or your feet can do the job.

What relationship does your flawed and random analogy have to do with the topic at hand?

Likewise you don't need a super $$$ DMM when a $5 meter is more than adequate for testing batteries and measuring resistance.

You stick to your definition of adequate if you wish, just don't get all pissy when others disagree or mock your choice.

[m12lrpv]

Careful Vern. You've gotten your skirt all ruffled and your ignorance is showing.

You need to go make yourself a bed of $400+ DMM's and have a good lie down on it before the thought of all those people happily and successfully using $5 DMM's gets the better of you.

[Uncle Vernon]

Careful Vern. You've gotten your skirt all ruffled and your ignorance is showing.

You need to go make yourself a bed of $400+ DMM's and have a good lie down on it before the thought of all those people happily and successfully using $5 DMM's gets the better of you.

No problem here as long as you and you POS meter and attitude remain the hell away from anything I am ever involved in. If mediocrity an bodge are your creed then "many happy crude outcomes to you"!

 I have a tub full of free supplied $5 nastys still in there packaging that I've never had the heart to put on eBay just in case fools like you fry themselves. Maybe I'd be doing the planet a huge favour not to care.

[Pentium100]

I like how some people quote sums in excess of $100 for a DMM as something that everybody can afford. Maybe that meter would be a good one, but maybe my money is better spent on a cheaper DMM and something else (like an ESR meter or a audio frequency voltmeter). I do not need the 0.01% accuracy. Really. The only measurement where it would be useful would be to adjust bias/eq of a tape deck, but then the meter should have frequency response up to at least 20kHz. I do not need to measure resistance or current that accurately.

I paid about 24EUR for my most expensive meter. However, in addition to the usual measurements (voltage, current (2-10A) etc) it can measure RPM and dwell angle of a car engine.