SSD

[IvoS]

I have SSD that just sh*t the bed. It was working fine for 10 months, one day, out of the blue, the PC failed to boot. It is under warranty, I am sending it back to manufacturer for free replacement. They will probably hook it up trying to revive it and investigate what happened to it. As you can imagine, there is a lot of private data on that disk I want no one to read.

Question #1: What are the chances of reading the "encrypted" content on win7? Are there any ways (which I believe must exist for FBI-CIA) to decrypt this SSD to someone like its manufacturer?

Question # 2: While the SSD can't be operated, is there a way to harm the SSD without opening it (warranty seal) to the possible worse extent making sure nobody can ever extract any data out of it? If yes, how?

[c4757p]

Question # 2: While the SSD can't be operated, is there a way to harm the SSD without opening it (warranty seal) to the possible worse extent making sure nobody can ever extract any data out of it? If yes, how?

Many ways, for different definitions of "nobody" and "ever". I'd say it's already at this point. Nobody is going to read the bare chips. Not much you can do without voiding the warranty.

[amspire]

The first thing is can you read the drive in another PC or boot of a Linux on a USB stick and see if the drive can be read?

http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net is a utility that can easily make a bootable Linux on a SUB memory stick.

What encrypted content are you talking about? Did you encrypt the disk, or are you talking about something else?

Running Spinrite on Level 1 (grc.com) sometimes works as if the problem sectors are successfully read after many attempts, the SSD will automatically replace the crook sector with a good one, and the drive will behave normally again.

[PeterG]

The manufacturer will perform a simple go or no-go test on the drive. They have no interest what is on the drive. The testing they perform is lo level testing. If the drive is encrypted, that will stop 99% of people from attempting to discover what files are on it.

If your pc bios ant see the drive it has failed completely and you have nothing to worry about.

Regards

[houdini]

a few extra volts on the pins would do something.  Start at the mains and work up?

[NiHaoMike]

If you had a swap partition or file on the SSD, don't. Swap would quickly use up the limited number of write cycles.

If your encryption is any good, destroy the key and the data would be essentially unrecoverable.

[TerraHertz]

I gather that your intent is not to recover data yourself, but to make sure no one else can.
It's a valid concern, even with a so-called encrypted drive. Given that it's Windows 7 (almost certainly full of government-mandated backdoors) and the drive itself probably has similar backdoors.

But it's easy enough. Regardless of what kind of interface the device has (SATA, IDE, etc) just electrically destroy the interface chips. A power supply set to (say) 50V, with a current limiting series resister so the SSD device isn't visibly blown up... say 4K7, half watt.  Then apply the voltage between pin pairs, multiple permutations.

 Another possibility is to give the entire device a quick blast in a microwave oven. But you risk major arcing, which would produce visible damage and void your warranty.

[amyk]

1. If you used full disk encryption then it's basically impossible if they don't know the keys (and they are not going to waste time trying to crack them.)

2. ESD could do something, but I'd advise against this if I were you; the manufacturers do do failure analysis, and finding unusual damage could void your warranty.

Incidentally, what make and model was it?

[jaqie]

amyk has the right of it, mostly.

Make a choice, warranty replacement or data security, which do you value more?

if it's data security, take a shotgun to the drive, and done.

if it's warranty replacement, send the drive in and done.

anything else is either committing fraud (intentionally damaging the drive before sending it in for replacement) or worthless and useless... except maybe more inventive ways of destroying the drive chips!

[ejeffrey]

Question #1: What are the chances of reading the "encrypted" content on win7? Are there any ways (which I believe must exist for FBI-CIA) to decrypt this SSD to someone like its manufacturer?

If you assume the flash chips are intact enough that someone with intent could recover much of the encrypted data, there are a few possibilities.  There a minuscule chance that the NSA or other shadowy organization can decrypt AES significantly more easily than guessing your password.  There is certainly a possibility that MS has deliberately left a backdoor in bitlocker, but I would estimate that to be a fairly remote possibility.  There is also the chance they have accidentally left a back door (i.e., bug) that the NSA may or may not know about yet.  I think this is the most likely possibility, but even then I would judge the probability that such a bug exists, that the NSA knows about it, and that it is effective in your scenario is not that great.  If you are really that paranoid about it, eat the cost and destroy the drive.

The most likely way someone could get your data off the drive is to guess a week password or that they could recover it by a tried and true technique like physical intimidation.

Question # 2: While the SSD can't be operated, is there a way to harm the SSD without opening it (warranty seal) to the possible worse extent making sure nobody can ever extract any data out of it? If yes, how?

The SSD manufacturer may be more forgiving than me, but if you intentionally damage the hardware I wouldn't honor the warranty even if you claimed it was already broken.  You should just decide whether the money or protecting against this potential privacy compromise is more important.  As a practical matter, there is no way you are going to reliably destroy the data on the flash chips without obvious physical destruction.  The correct solution here is full disk encryption, which you have already done.

[notsob]

How about this.
As you are returning the SSD for a warranty replacement I would expect them to do a go/no go test before they ship out a new one.

Advise them that the SSD has commercially sensitive data on it and you would like it returned after they are happy that it is dead, so that you can destroy it.

Worth a try (they may even destroy it for you)

[kripton2035]

if these data are sooo sensitive at your eyes, then it is worth for you to buy a new ssd drive, and keep this one secret !
that's my point.
if you returns it, I'm almost sure somebody can decrypt it, if "they" think it's worth it.

[poorchava]

There have been quite many discussions around the world regarding problems that law enforcement has with encrypted disks. I think US government may want to delegalize full disk encryption, because it's the case where they may have all the warrants of the world, and still - they don't have any means of forcing you to decode it for them. Before that, if they had warrant they could bust a safe, jimmy the door, break into a car etc. But they cannot do much against FDE, maybe short of torturing that out of you (ok, I know that US government doesn't refrain from torture - check yourself on wikileaks). But  we are talking about civilised world


I don't know how about the BitLocker (more familiar with TrueCrypt), but I don't think even NSA, FBI and the like can break the encryption in reasonable time if you set your system properly (eg. not storing swap/page file on unsafe partitions, not having memory dumps enabled, disabling hibernation mode etc.). On the other hand there is quite a thin like between making computer very secure and making it a pain in the ass to use. I actually think that ordinary hard disks are better for sensitive data than flash, because an emergency degausser can be made DIY way. This is to say that HDD is easier to wipe without physical signs than SSD.

[JuKu]

Question # 2: While the SSD can't be operated, is there a way to harm the SSD without opening it (warranty seal) to the possible worse extent making sure nobody can ever extract any data out of it? If yes, how?

No. You can destroy the drive controller, but there is no reliable way to get to memory chips themselves. Beside, as noted, that would be fraud.

The manufacturer won't make a copy; they might try to read it to see that it can be read, but very unlikely that they would be looking at the data. They might see the directory structure and file names; unless there is something clearly illegal ("drug sales 2012.xls")  there, I wouldn't think they'll took more than a casual glimpse. Far more likely, they have a tool that checks the data structure and tells "directory structure ok" without reporting anything about the content. Really, they are no more interested about your data as the post office is about the content of your mail.

Your call, trust them and get a new disk under warranty, don't trust and eat the losses.

[firewalker]

US, UK has refused the entry to the country of people refusing to give away the encryption keys for their laptops in order to check the contents at  airports check.

Alexander.

[dr_p]

unless there is something clearly illegal ("drug sales 2012.xls") 

 

people have way better things to do. Nobody gives a rat's ass what's on the SSD (except the OP, of course ).

[amspire]

Lots of interesting suggestions, but I just want to remind everybody that Ivos has not yet said that the SSD is faulty. He has only said the PC will not boot.

The SSD may be faulty, but it may still work fine. The PC may be faulty. We do not know yet.

If it is still working fine, booting from USB Linux as I suggested allows non-encrypted content to be copied from the disk, and the disk can then be thoroughly wiped regardless of whether it is encrypted or not. Now wiping a SSD is not perfect, as data can remain on swapped out memory locations, but someone would have to be exceedingly keen to go to the trouble of making sense of swapped out memory on the chance they may find some useful info.

If the data is that sensitive and the SSD has failed, you just destroy the SSD, buy a new one and reload Windows. That is what everyone else with really sensitive data does.

It is also worth trying reinstalling Windows from the recovery disk, if there is one. If not, the computer supplier can supply one.

[G7PSK]

An insulation tester (megger meter) will destroy just about any electronics most certainly an SSD. I have had power plant blown up by an electrician testing the insulation.

[kripton2035]

yep but after that the warranty may no be applicable anymore ?

[SgtRock]

Greetings EEVBees:

--In the past couple of years, every computer I have built, for myself, family, and friends, has a 64 GB SSD for Windows 7 and programs only, and two 1000 GB drives, one of which is used for automatic backups. I also employ a couple of 1000 GB Clickfree external backup drives, at least one of which is always kept in a fireproof safe. I use Truecrypt for sensitive material, and also for programs that tend to set off the virus software.

--By building computers from whatever is available cheap at the time (I use Geeks and eBay a lot), I am able to afford to max out the RAM. My best computer at the moment is a run of the mill Geeks "special buy" MSI MB and AMD CPU, I maxed out RAM at 16 GB, and put it all in a giant Whisper case I found in a dumpster, along with a 700 W PS, also found in a dumpster. Also, every computer I build has fans everywhere there is a place for one. I am not a gamer and the total cost of my equipment, since is not cutting edge or latest generation, is very low, but my reliability, and redundancy are very high. I also have a couple of run of the mill Acer Laptops, that I bought broken, and then refurbished, and replaced the HD with, you guessed it a 64 GB SSD. The result is much faster boot, faster operation, more battery time, and less heat. Heat is a major problem with the cheapo Acer's as they have inadequate fan cooling, and a tendency to accumulate "woolly boogers" otherwise known as "dust bunnies" The result of all these hardware precautions is that I flat do not have computer problems.

--At the very minimum, I would recommend, using an SSD for OS and Programs only, and a large HD for user files, with some provision for backup. Do not put all of your eggs in one basket.

--Lest you think I am wealthy, I should tell you that I am retired and live on a very limited income. Every cent I spend on my Electronics and Computer hobby, comes from recycling, and sales of repaired items and parts. I have EEVBlog to thank for much of the knowledge that has allowed me to do this. So thanks to Dave and all the EEVBees who have posted so much free helpful information.

"I wear suspenders and a belt. I am a security man all the way"
Justin Wilson (The Cajun Cook) 1914 - 2001
 
Best Regards
Clear Ether

[IvoS]

To clarify the info. The SSD is damaged in a way that it won't run on different PC (tried it) it won't show up in BIOS either. After pressing the start button the SSD starts to boot for 5 sec and then it shuts down and starts to boot again. It behaves like that on 2 different PCs.
I know there are some warranty rules. How about this one. It is SSD with 3 YEAR WARRANTY!! It failed after 10 months. I don't give a rats ass about hurting the SSD even more without visual damage. If it was 2 years and 10 months old, then, I would probably throw it under a steamroller and buy a new one. In this case, I am not willing to just toss it out and make the life easier for its manufacturer.
How about this one. What if I zap it with high voltage something like stun gun? Would the internal memory chips survive?

[free_electron]

the SSD starts to boot for 5 sec and then it shuts down and starts to boot again.

explain that please. what do you mean ? windows starts to boot and then halts and restarts ?

how can you tell the SSD 'boots' a harddisk at least spins up and you should hear the heads move but an SSD is fully silent.

[IvoS]

the SSD starts to boot for 5 sec and then it shuts down and starts to boot again.

explain that please. what do you mean ? windows starts to boot and then halts and restarts ?

how can you tell the SSD 'boots' a harddisk at least spins up and you should hear the heads move but an SSD is fully silent.

Not windows itself, I meant the first step when you power up the PC when BIOS starts checking the ports etc.... it doesn't go beyond this point. I don't even get the first page on the monitor, it's far away from windows to boot....sorry.

[tom66]

Truecrypt's hidden volume allows you to get around revealing encryption keys. No proof that any encryption is used as PC boots normally.

[rr100]

Almost every post speaks about encryption but it looks the data wasn't "really encrypted" (i.e. truecrypt, bitlocker, etc), otherwise there would no point for the whole discussion, you use encryption just to have no worries in case you lose the device, isn't it?

I think "encryption" means here just "stored on SSD in whatever format the manufacturer uses" (which sometimes is indeed encrypted but they know the key). Then yes, in theory they can read your data but no, they don't care about it.