Tesla Cybertruck

[wraper]

Also EU is in process of bumping the limit to 4250kg for alternatively-fuelled vehicles which would bring it below the limit as is.

Interesting, I hadn't heard of that one.
Can you provide a link?

https://www.fleeteurope.com/en/new-energies/europe/features/new-regulations-will-allow-drivers-drive-heavier-e-lcvs?a=JMA06&t%5B0%5D=Electrification&t%5B1%5D=LCVs&curl=1
Also in UK you can undertake a 5 hour training and drive up to 4250kg BEV or H₂ already https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/driving-licence-flexibility-for-alternatively-fuelled-vehicles/changes-to-driving-licence-flexibility-for-alternatively-fuelled-vehicles

[Benta]

Thanks @wraper
I'll continue enjoying my '97 MX-5 (950 kg) and '20 ditto (1060 kg). Makes much more sense to me than lugging around 4 ton.

[mendip_discovery]

Here's a video of a full-frontal crash demonstrating 'too much' crumple zone.

I actually had one of those. If you read the development story on them they were an immensely strong and durable car. Built to tolerate some of the worst Australian outback roads. Some time ago I did a bit of searching regarding that video. That particular car had several hundred kilograms of sandbags in the boot as well as a number of cuts to the bodywork in strategic places to ensure it folded up in a dramatic way, which it did. Rest assured, proper version of that car were nothing like in that video.

That reminds my when the American safety people went after the Suzuki Jimmy/Samurai they were found to have modified parameters until they got the results they wanted so that the new popular lightweight 4x4 wouldn't remain popular in the US.

Yes the uk licence allows for 3.5t vehicles on a normal licence. I am interested to see how this plans out when more load carrying vehicles go EV as carrying capacity is rather important.

[AVGresponding]

My comment about the drive-by-wire steering was meant to be specifically about the variable speed part of it. Sorry I wasn't more clear. This isn't a new thing; it's been used by many manufacturers for at least a couple of decades now. I simply remain unconvinced that it's a good thing; I want a predictable response when I turn the wheel, not one that the vehicle chooses based on vehicle speed.

[langwadt]

My comment about the drive-by-wire steering was meant to be specifically about the variable speed part of it. Sorry I wasn't more clear. This isn't a new thing; it's been used by many manufacturers for at least a couple of decades now. I simply remain unconvinced that it's a good thing; I want a predictable response when I turn the wheel, not one that the vehicle chooses based on vehicle speed.

making it a predictable fine response at speed and not having to turn the wheel a million times in the parking lot is the purpose

[SiliconWizard]

Yep. Of course not everyone has the same idea of what predictable is. Which makes sense as we don't all expect the same behavior based on our experience and preferences.
So a better word than "predictable" here, for describing a calculator-assisted steering, would be "standardized". IMO.
If you're used to a given vehicle, even one without any steering assistance whatsoever, then its behavior will be entirely predictable to you, unless something breaks. So it's more like giving vehicles a more "standard" behavior that's more approachable for most drivers.

[vk6zgo]

It starts crushing nicely... but then hits the rock-hard, rigid chasis and the occupants go ballistic, the vehicle even bounces back and hits them harder.

That is all OK, because the batteries will then catch fire cooking the occupants who can not escape anyway.

Except EV catch fire way slower so chances of escaping are higher and it happens 10+ times rarer (per same number of units) than with ICE vehicles. You don't see ICE vehicles on fire in the news because it happens so often that it's too mundane. Also Cybertruck has manual door release, the same as other Tesla cars.

ICE cars bursting into flames after accidents was so rare in earlier years that we used to sneer at Hollywood movies showing that happening.
Wrecked cars commonly looked like a giant had stepped on them like we might on a tin can, but no sign of fire.
These days, it is so common that it is almost routine.

It seems nobody has connected the dots!

My theory is it is because of the presence of pressurised fuel pipes plus high-capacity fuel pumps.
With old cars, an accident usually stopped the fuel pump so the supply of fuel to help start a fire was much reduced.


Then there are Jeeps, which don't even need the accident, but go "woompf" just sitting in a driveway.

I only ever saw two cars spontaneously "just start to burn" in the old days.
One was my old Austin Tasman, & the other was a early 1980s Peugeot.
In each case, it was a quite gentle, slow process, with plenty of time to remove yourself & valuables from the vehicle.

[BrianHG]

Drive by wire, for instance, allowing to tailor the steering ratio depending to speed.

This has been tried before, and does not work. The reason should be obvious to anyone that's ever driven a vehicle. The closest to variable steering that actually works is the various 4WS systems the Japanese manufacturers used in the 1980s-1990s. Curiously they don't bother any more.

It's literally used by Nissan in some of their vehicles.  There's a redundant clutch which activates if power is lost or there is a fault with the system providing a mechanical override, but in normal use the steering is entirely electronic.  Combined with variable resistance on the wheel you could create quite a realistic feel whilst gaining the benefits of truly adaptive steering.  That said, I can't quite get over the idea of having no mechanical linkage, I don't trust the redundant system quite enough.  And ordinary electric power steering is perfectly sufficient IMO, I've never thought that this would improve things, just make them more expensive if anything went wrong!

hasn't "Pedestrian Detection and Collision Mitigation Systems" with automatic braking not become mandatory yet?, I know it's been proposed so it won't be long

Yes, these systems exist, I am pretty sure my car has this system:
https://youtu.be/watch?v=0P7M8PvG0Pc&t=2m37s

However such systems are not infallable, they cannot detect all pedestrians, cyclists etc.  Adding more mass will always mean any accident that does happen is more severe. The focus should be on reducing vehicle size and weight where possible.  Especially on reducing bonnet height, as that strongly defines the severity of an accident:  if you hit a pedestrian with a lower-down car like a Golf, they're much more likely to impact their head on the windscreen, which is less likely to be fatal than with an SUV where head impacts tend to be on bodywork.

Obviously, some people need larger vehicles, such as those with wheelchairs, elderly/infirm people, and those who use their vehicle as part of their profession.  But SUVs (and trucks) are primarily marketed towards people as a vanity purchase*, and the average occupancy of an SUV barely exceeds that of a smaller car. Cybertruck is even worse, though the statistic in the US for pickup trucks is something like only 30% of people use their pickup bed more than once per year, it's crazy.

*Like for instance, the ridiculous SUV ads like these: https://youtu.be/watch?v=0ITLWCfxmLc  ... yeah, the majority of the time, this vehicle is gonna be sitting in traffic, like the rest of us.

4 wheel steering, the authentic ultimate version:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/JXD9c3DZw8o

[wraper]

4 wheel steering, the authentic ultimate version:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/JXD9c3DZw8o

That's just yet another concept though. You can implement all sorts of weird shit on those because it does not need to actually work IRL or have sensible cost.

[vk6zgo]

Here's a video of a full-frontal crash demonstrating 'too much' crumple zone.

I actually had one of those. If you read the development story on them they were an immensely strong and durable car. Built to tolerate some of the worst Australian outback roads. Some time ago I did a bit of searching regarding that video. That particular car had several hundred kilograms of sandbags in the boot as well as a number of cuts to the bodywork in strategic places to ensure it folded up in a dramatic way, which it did. Rest assured, proper version of that car were nothing like in that video.

Anyone of a reasonable age who lives in Australia would have seen many Holden Commodores of that model which had been involved in real accidents.
In a front-end impact like that, the front crumple zones operated as designed, with the passenger compartment remaining largely intact, obviously depending upon the severity of the accident.

Over time, for some inconceivable reason, there was a concerted effort by some to denigrate anything Australian made, but this is the first time I have seen such a blatantly fake video about Commodores.

GMH made plenty of stuff ups like any manufacturer, especially after GM in Detroit started reducing the autonomy of its subsidiary companies around the World.

That went well, didn't it Vauxhall?

[wraper]

ICE cars bursting into flames after accidents was so rare in earlier years that we used to sneer at Hollywood movies showing that happening.
Wrecked cars commonly looked like a giant had stepped on them like we might on a tin can, but no sign of fire.
These days, it is so common that it is almost routine.

They always burned in flames, of course only some percentage of crashes result in fire. They just very rarely explode like in movies. I've seen burning ICE car myself and it didn't even crash, just cough flames under the hood when driving near my home.

[vk6zgo]

ICE cars bursting into flames after accidents was so rare in earlier years that we used to sneer at Hollywood movies showing that happening.
Wrecked cars commonly looked like a giant had stepped on them like we might on a tin can, but no sign of fire.
These days, it is so common that it is almost routine.

They always burned in flames, of course only some percentage of crashes result in fire. They just very rarely explode like in movies. I've seen burning ICE car myself and it didn't even crash, just cough flames under the hood when driving near my home.

My main point was that cars burning up after accidents was rarely seen, whereas it is much more common now.
It is very evident when you have been around as long as me.

The engine fires I have seen were slow burning, looking much more like an oil fire from leaky rocker cover gaskets.

In the case of my Austin, it was literally that, causing the noise deadener on the firewall becoming saturated, plus Leyland Australia choosing to place the exhaust manifold very close to the firewall when they were determining the best way to fit an "East West" 6cyl engine in the space normally occupied by a four.

[Dan123456]

My main point was that cars burning up after accidents was rarely seen, whereas it is much more common now.

I do wonder if this is due to cars having significantly more electrical systems than they used to.

The vast majority of fires I have seen are due to electrical faults. Especially when some peanut has decided to wire up their on stereo or light bar etc. incorrectly.

Don’t get me wrong, rubber / plastic fuel lines breaking is definitely a thing and oil can catch fire (although usually not easily).

I just wonder what proportion of the ICE fires these days actually has nothing to do with the fuel.

[mendip_discovery]

My main point was that cars burning up after accidents was rarely seen, whereas it is much more common now.
It is very evident when you have been around as long as me.

Seen is the keyword. These days we have video recording on our phones and the ability to share it with others. This has caused people to think things happen more than they used to. I got off facebook partly as it was feeding into my anxiety, seeing video of stuff being stolen to video from disasters around the world.

There is going to be a certain amount of sh*t stirring going on with Tesla as if does have parts of the car industry worried as it's gone from a nothing to somthing very quickly and caught a lot of people out. They changed tactics as electric cars were marketed at eco friendly loons/nerds and Tesla changed that and made it ok to own a car becuase it was fast and innovative. I can't afford to get into it so I am not overly interested but I am still hesitant at times as some people just love to spread the word of the new Steve Jobs without thinking is this actually a good idea for the rest of us.

This has been my Sunday morning rambling, I will now go find a cup of Tea and try and do somthing productive. Oooh eBay...

[AVGresponding]

4 wheel steering, the authentic ultimate version:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/JXD9c3DZw8o

That's just yet another concept though. You can implement all sorts of weird shit on those because it does not need to actually work IRL or have sensible cost.

Cost and mechanical complexity are probably why we don't really see it much any more. Torque vectoring seems to be the preferred method nowadays, along with boosted power assist at parking speeds.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Door handles? Where? Only inside?
How do firefighters open it if you're injured or unconscious?

Break the window.
It may be a surprise for you but in modern cars doors get automatically locked when driving. So outer handle is absolutely useless unless it gets automatically unlocked after the accident, and it likely won't if crash was serious or car does not have post accident unlocking feature.

Most modern cars will detect when an accident is happening, and while for a human that's an incomprehensible short time, for the electronics, servos, and motors that's an eternity to still do things. Some modern cars will do things like activate the brakes, tilt seats away from the side, tension the seat-belts before there's even an impact, pull away the steering wheel column, etc. So I wouldn't be surprised if unlocking the doors and trunk is part of such a system.

I think Teslas also blow a pyrofuse to isolate the battery pack in an accident

[wraper]

Door handles? Where? Only inside?
How do firefighters open it if you're injured or unconscious?

Break the window.
It may be a surprise for you but in modern cars doors get automatically locked when driving. So outer handle is absolutely useless unless it gets automatically unlocked after the accident, and it likely won't if crash was serious or car does not have post accident unlocking feature.

Most modern cars will detect when an accident is happening, and while for a human that's an incomprehensible short time, for the electronics, servos, and motors that's an eternity to still do things. Some modern cars will do things like activate the brakes, tilt seats away from the side, tension the seat-belts before there's even an impact, pull away the steering wheel column, etc. So I wouldn't be surprised if unlocking the doors and trunk is part of such a system.

From what I found:

Model S unlocks all doors, the trunk, and extends all door handles.

It's also widely implemented. FCA has an accident response system that unlocks the power door locks as long as power remains intact for the split second it takes to unlock them. Volkswagen and Mercedes systems also unlock all the doors in the event of an accident. Ford and Lincoln's automatic door unlocking system is on a six second delay. This allows the doors to be locked for longer if there's a secondary crash, but then there's the question of power afterwards. Honda's system doesn't unlock any doors automatically. GM says that given a crash of "sufficient severity," the doors will unlock; they are also meant to never lock during or after airbag deployment.

[tom66]

4 wheel steering, the authentic ultimate version:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/JXD9c3DZw8o

No need to overcomplicate it; just add a fifth wheel to pivot...

[vk6zgo]

Yeah that's due stainless steel springiness, makes it complicated to get pressed into the desired shape, it always bounces back a little bit.

https://www.justcars.com.au/news-and-reviews/feature-stainless-steel-fords/888032

[langwadt]

Yeah that's due stainless steel springiness, makes it complicated to get pressed into the desired shape, it always bounces back a little bit.

all steel has some spring back that has to be accounted for when bending and pressing

[wraper]

It's not even usual austenitic sheet stainless steel you'd think, and that wouldn't be bulletproof. It's a cold rolled martensitic high strength stuff.

[Psi]

It's not even usual austenitic sheet stainless steel you'd think, and that wouldn't be bulletproof. It's a cold rolled martensitic high strength stuff.

It's big boy stainless steel.

[wraper]

At about 24 minutes they start showing and discussing how the thing is built. They start showing electronics at 39 minutes. Power electronics at 43:10.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Drive by wire, for instance, allowing to tailor the steering ratio depending to speed.

This has been tried before, and does not work

All the reviews I've seen seem to disagree, though seems more of  "fine once you get used to it" than "must-have feature"

[mikeselectricstuff]

At about 24 minutes they start showing and discussing how the thing is built. They start showing electronics at 39 minutes. Power electronics at 43:10.

That power converter is impressive - 11kW bidirectional AC charging and 3kW DC/DC conversion on a pretty compact assembly.