The EU is enforcing USB-C on portable devices

[Halcyon]

We have examples that could have lead to disasters due to such tech illiterate bureaucrats. Nice example a couple of years ago was the one digital commissioner promoting self-driving cars and wireless networks, without any knowledge what he was rambling about. Fortunately the parliament listens to technical experts and have in many cases shown common sense and stopped many disasters (this is at least my impression from the topics I have followed).

There was also the hilarious claim from the Australian prime minister:
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2140747-laws-of-mathematics-dont-apply-here-says-australian-pm/

They ware pushing for companies running chat applications with end to end encryption to have to hand over chat logs to the authorities. Even after being explained to him why doing this is not technologically possible he said they should do it anyway. Since after all: "The laws of mathematics are very commendable, but the only law that applies in Australia is the law of Australia"

Yehhhhh, let's not go there. He was a moron. This is the same guy who believed it was a better idea to re-use the old, corroding copper phone lines for VDSL2-based services, rather than the original plan of running fibre optics to most homes and premises. Which one do you think ended up costing more?

But getting back on-point, there are actually mutual laws among countries (namely five-eyes) which can compel companies to "assist" where it's possible to do so. We're not talking about breaking encryption, but if there is data which is in the reach of companies, then they are compelled to hand it over to law enforcement in certain circumstances. Likewise they may be compelled to implement some kind of process/solution in order to achieve something. It's all very complicated.

[tszaboo]

The cookie thing was a disaster. The intention was good, but not the outcome. Other than that, I have trust in our government and in extension EU. They are not trying to regulate "science".  We don't have an issue with corruption.

Indeed the cookies law was horrible.

As I hear they are working on an update for that, where the website needs to have a quick button to opt out from cookies.
Because it is a good intention law, that was totally circumvented by sociopath website programmers. Seriously, I had a website where setting up the cookies was "accept all or go thorough this 20 step procedure"

The enforced USB-C standard is welcomed. Because not only that will be mandated, but USB-PD as well if I understand correctly. So maybe we will go from the current status que where there is 20 different standards for quick charging. Not only does this allow to leave laptop chargers at home, but it allows portable electronics to be used on the go with standard PD capable battery banks.

Where are we to get a bunch of USB-C ports for these devices?  USB-C hubs with a bunch of USB-C ports still don't exist.

This sounds like an issue where you are trying to find a coat because you already have a button for it.

[JPortici]

The chargers are already compatible though, they're standard USB and I use apple chargers on other devices all the time, the only thing different is the cable and a cable comes with the phone, and AFAIK the latest iPhones don't even include a charger. I don't see how this is going to reduce waste.

I still have a box with more than a dozen of old chargers, with barrel jack or custom connectors, all outputting different voltages - because you never know! -
Now, when i go outdoor i need to bring four cables with my power bank. Type C for my phone, Micro B for recharghable head Lamp, Mini B for older backup head lamp, custom for dog tracker.
Now that i think of it, i hope that there are exceptions. The dog tracker (Tractive) has its own custom cable/connector for recharging with pogos. Things could be more complicated if it was USB as it has to handle mud, snow, rivers because you know, dogs. You can use an IPXX connector with a cover on the hole but yeaaaaah

[Ed.Kloonk]

Is this the end for the waterproof magnetic charge plugs?

https://www.cletk.com/connector/magnetic-usb-cable-connector-with-charging

[RoGeorge]

Five Eye is an international cartel of a few (western) secret-service agencies.  Usually a cartel's goal is to take control over a market, while Five Eye's goal is to take control over the world.  It's not that complicated.

[tszaboo]

Five Eye is an international cartel of a few (western) secret-service agencies.  Usually a cartel's goal is to take control over a market, while Five Eye's goal is to take control over the world.  It's not that complicated.

Is that like the Pentaverte?

[Halcyon]

Five Eye is an international cartel of a few (western) secret-service agencies.  Usually a cartel's goal is to take control over a market, while Five Eye's goal is to take control over the world.  It's not that complicated.

Orrrr... it's completely not that at all. Yes, let's go with that.

 

[Tom45]

USB-C docks and hubs are fairly common. I've use the OWC branded ones. For example: https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/owc-thunderbolt-hub

That example is actually a Thunderbolt hub, not a USB-C hub. Perhaps the EU should require Thunderbolt rather than USB-C.

[eugene]

Good grief. USB C is already a standard. Manufacturers use it because consumers approve it and show their approval by purchasing one product instead another. That's what free market means! Making it law takes away the power of the consumer to decide.

What happens when a better way is created? Some stuffed suits in a legislative chamber, most with law degrees and zero expertise in consumer electronics decide for us if we get to try the new way or not?

This is NOT in the consumers best interest. Exactly the opposite.

[VK3DRB]

Standardisation is a good thing if it make technical and economic sense. Like the USB type C connector, the world should replace the USB type-A connector with one that can plug in either way around. You have a 50% chance of getting it right plugging it in without straining your back to look into the socket.

On the other hand the type A connector is robust, but the type-C connector is somewhat fragile - especially in phones.

[tszaboo]

Is this the end for the waterproof magnetic charge plugs?

https://www.cletk.com/connector/magnetic-usb-cable-connector-with-charging

I've been using a cable like this for my laptop for a year now.

[rstofer]

I see the move as overwhelmingly positive. I don't see how this differs too much from standardising AC power connectors and sockets.

But there is no international 'standard' for power connectors.  The U-ground 120V receptacle is one example.  Then again, 120V isn't a 'standard' either.

https://hubbellcdn.com/ohwassets/HCI/WiringDevice/media/NEMA_Chart.pdf

Go ahead, lock in to what will soon be an obsolete connector and throttle any innovation.  What happens when the new ultra-high bandwidth USB-D comes along?  Or, is the EU telling the USB Implementers Forum to quit thinking up new stuff?

I wonder if Apple will just ship an adapter from their connector to USB-C.

The rest of the world will move on and the EU 27 will stay behind to hold the fort.  With a drawer full of adapters, no doubt!

What about the many-pin Microsoft Surface docking connector? They don't even pretend to use USB-C charging.  But there's a bit more functionality in the cable than just charging.

Legislating USB-C as the only possible standard is a mistake.  It drives a stake in the ground where none is needed, or desired.

Yes, buying a pack of 3 Lightning to USB-A cost me $10 but I suspect they will last a while:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PHY8JLL

I could have bought the official Apple cable for $20

https://www.cdw.com/product/apple-lightning-cable-lightning-usb-3.3-ft/5948264

What happens to barrel jacks?

[eugene]

Standardisation is a good thing if it make technical and economic sense. Like the USB type C connector, the world should replace the USB type-A connector with one that can plug in either way around. You have a 50% chance of getting it right plugging it in without straining your back to look into the socket.

On the other hand the type A connector is robust, but the type-C connector is somewhat fragile - especially in phones.

Many posts have stated that standardization is a good thing. No posts have stated the contrary. I'll conclude that nobody here disagrees.

What so many seem to have missed is that standardization (of this type) does not require legal legislation.

I'll repeat myself: USB C is already a standard. It is already replacing USB A connectors on computers. All of this has been taking place naturally and organically as the market evolves naturally and organically.

Some stupid fucking legislator gets pissed off because he can't find the charging cord for his phone so decides to stop working on meaningful things and propose a law that all charging cords should be the same.

This sounds like a good idea? Really?

People, get some perspective!!

[tszaboo]

This sounds like a good idea? Really?

Yes.

[voltsandjolts]

...tell the USB Implementers Forum to quit thinking up new stuff?

Heh, sometimes I wish they would.
Or at least slow down the rate of change, as we asymptotically approach a powered serial bus that is a very good all-rounder.

[Monkeh]

I wonder if Apple will just ship an adapter from their connector to USB-C.

That's not an option.

The rest of the world will move on and the EU 27 will stay behind to hold the fort.  With a drawer full of adapters, no doubt!

You underestimate the power of the largest market in the western world.

What happens to barrel jacks?

Common portable devices stop having eighteen different options for the stupid flimsy things?

[Berni]

I see the move as overwhelmingly positive. I don't see how this differs too much from standardising AC power connectors and sockets.

But there is no international 'standard' for power connectors.  The U-ground 120V receptacle is one example.  Then again, 120V isn't a 'standard' either.

https://hubbellcdn.com/ohwassets/HCI/WiringDevice/media/NEMA_Chart.pdf

Go ahead, lock in to what will soon be an obsolete connector and throttle any innovation.  What happens when the new ultra-high bandwidth USB-D comes along?  Or, is the EU telling the USB Implementers Forum to quit thinking up new stuff?

This is your confusing world of US power outlets.

Here in Europe we have standardized outlets for household use down to 2 types. The full earthed 3 terminal Schuko plug that does 230V/16A/3kW and a smaller 2 terminal version (CEE 7/17) for non earthed appliances that does up to 230V/2.5A. There are slight differences but the plugs fit all across Europe (Except for Brittan because they never did anything standardized). You never have to worry about having a powerful enough outlet to plug something in. All the outlets are powerful enough to run all appliances. For when you need more oomph to run your giant bandsaw or lathe you step up to the IEC 60309 connector that gives you 3 phase 400V/32A/22kW. They do come in larger sizes up to 125A per phase but you will never see one of those in residential. So so sum it up we have 3 connectors that do 500W or 3kW or 22kW, all of them 230V phase voltage. That's it, we don't need any more.

With USB the connector variants ware added as needed. At first we only had the big chunky USB-B plug as portable devices didn't use USB, Then we came up with miniUSB to address those. Then for a stupid reason we went to microUSB that is barely any smaller (Apparently because mini is unreliable but micro was fragile so i dunno). Then finally we went to USB-C to get a reversible connector, higher power rating and extra high speed pairs.

There is not much more room for improvement on USB-C now. It can handle 5A of power that can at 48V transfer 240W. There are dedicated high speed lines for each direction (flipping direction is annoying at high speed) those got designed for 5Gbit but then got updated to 20Gbit just fine. The standard made it perfectly legal to reuse the high speed pairs for other protocols if required. It is pushing right up against the laws of physics at this point.

The major problem of previous USB connectors was that they just did not have enough pins and they didn't handle enough amps. Sure maybe at some point we will move to a fiberoptic connector for even more speed, but pretty sure USB-C will easily be more than good enough for most devices >25 years in the future. They can still use funky new modulations methods to squeeze even more bandwidth out of the existing USB-C plugs.

[langwadt]

Standardisation is a good thing if it make technical and economic sense. Like the USB type C connector, the world should replace the USB type-A connector with one that can plug in either way around. You have a 50% chance of getting it right plugging it in without straining your back to look into the socket.

On the other hand the type A connector is robust, but the type-C connector is somewhat fragile - especially in phones.

Many posts have stated that standardization is a good thing. No posts have stated the contrary. I'll conclude that nobody here disagrees.

What so many seem to have missed is that standardization (of this type) does not require legal legislation.

I'll repeat myself: USB C is already a standard. It is already replacing USB A connectors on computers. All of this has been taking place naturally and organically as the market evolves naturally and organically.

Some stupid fucking legislator gets pissed off because he can't find the charging cord for his phone so decides to stop working on meaningful things and propose a law that all charging cords should be the same.

This sounds like a good idea? Really?

People, get some perspective!!

it was legislation that stopped manufacturers reinventing the wheel by forcing them to use USB to charge phones, ....

[rstofer]

In the US, we do indeed have standards for receptacles and such. It's just that our standards (NEMA) aren't European standards and since we are separated by a large body of water, who cares?  Canada and Mexico use the same devices as the US although Mexico 127V is a little high compared to the US at 120V.  Our frequency is also different than most of the world 60Hz vs 50Hz and we have a fairly long and continuing history with 25 Hz, specifically for railroads in the northeast.

What I worry about is that restraining innovation to match EU regulations also puts a damper on advancements for the rest of the world.  At some point, the business decision will be to offer a new 'gee whiz' product but not to the EU versus not creating the product at all.

[Bassman59]

That is all good and all. What i want to know is if this law includes Apple.

Good question as the news here has been implying that it's mainly Apple that they're after.

They are definitely after Apple. But it's weird, because the new ruling is that all such devices sold in the EU from 2024 onward must have USB-C charging ports, and I read an article that claimed 29% of devices already have USB-C, 21% are Lightning, and the remainder use micro-USB. So those vendors using micro-USB are in the same position as Apple.

Anyway, it's articles like this one which say nonsense like,

The European Union on Tuesday reached an agreement that will require all new smartphones, tablets and laptops to use a common charger by 2026.

The policy is an attempt to address the well-known consumer frustration of having a drawer full of chargers — some for Apple devices, others for portable speakers or hand-held gaming systems.

But the "Drawerful of chargers" is not the problem! It's the cable on the device.

Apple surely has already planned for USB-C on the iPhone, and they'll likely make an announcement about having that port on iPhone 14 this fall. So the future is USB-C, and that's fine.

One thing I don't like about the EU mandate is that as of 2026, all laptops need to have USB-C charging ports. Apple finally brought the MagSafe charge port back to the MacBook Pro last year and now it's on the new MacBook Air. MagSafe is brilliant. Does this mean that Apple will have to eliminate it again? Do note that a MacBook Pro with MagSafe can also be charged from the Thunderbolt ports, so basically Apple is already in compliance.

[Stray Electron]

I'm for standardization. We'll have to see how hard coding USB-C specifically plays out in a long term, but it would be a while before it gets obsolete.

They talk about charging and it is not clear how it relates to data transfer.

  Exactly.  I don't think that there's any provision in the law that prevents a company from putting a 2nd port (of their choice) to the device and using it for a data port.  The law only mandates a USB-C port for charging.

   I'm 200% in favor.  I've spent too much much money buying one of a kind chargers to replace the original one when it died.

   Now I just hope that the US will follow the EU's example.

[eugene]

it was legislation that stopped manufacturers reinventing the wheel by forcing them to use USB to charge phones, ....

I'm not sure what legislation you're talking about. I'll assume it has something to do with early phones that used a variety of barrel plugs. If so, I'm not ready to give law makers any credit for increasing convenience in my life (which is all that this law is about; simple convenience.) I'm certain that makers of smart phones would have included USB ports for communication purposes anyway. And, I'm just as certain that they would have used those ports for charging. No laws required. (For the record, I am not against all laws, just pointless ones that do more harm than good.)

I challenge anyone on this forum to find me a newly designed phone that doesn't already use USB C. Not an old design that is being maintained for a few more years; a new design. (Apple notwithstanding. I cannot account for what  Apple does.) The point is that consumers already demand USB C. When shopping for my next phone I will not consider one with a microB connector. It doesn't need to be forced on me. I'm not a child.

[tooki]

This is your confusing world of US power outlets.

Here in Europe we have standardized outlets for household use down to 2 types. The full earthed 3 terminal Schuko plug that does 230V/16A/3kW and a smaller 2 terminal version (CEE 7/17) for non earthed appliances that does up to 230V/2.5A. There are slight differences but the plugs fit all across Europe (Except for Brittan because they never did anything standardized). You never have to worry about having a powerful enough outlet to plug something in. All the outlets are powerful enough to run all appliances.

LMAO at how confidently incorrect you are.  The only plug that fits everywhere in continental Europe is the 2-pin europlug (which is limited to 2.5A). For everything above that, it’s a smattering of different plugs. Not all of Europe uses Schuko. Denmark? Nope. Italy? Nope. Switzerland? Nope. France? Nope (though most schuko plugs are made to be compatible with French sockets, too).

The US is hardly a “confusing” world of sockets. Most people never actively use anything but the grounded NEMA 5-15 socket. The stove and dryer get plugged in by the appliance delivery people, and that’s basically that.

[james_s]

Standardisation is a good thing if it make technical and economic sense. Like the USB type C connector, the world should replace the USB type-A connector with one that can plug in either way around. You have a 50% chance of getting it right plugging it in without straining your back to look into the socket.

On the other hand the type A connector is robust, but the type-C connector is somewhat fragile - especially in phones.

The robustness of the type A connector is a huge win for me. I don't get the hype over being able to insert it either way around, in the 20 or so years since USB appeared I have never really had this problem, if it doesn't fit just flip it around, no need to crawl down there to look. I've had to replace several charging cables for my work macbook because the tiny and fragile USB-C connectors get loose and sloppy or are damaged.

[james_s]

This is your confusing world of US power outlets.

What are you even talking about? The NEMA-15 receptacle is absolutely ubiquitous, you will find them everywhere throughout North America. There is nothing prohibiting using something else but absolutely nobody does because all portable appliances and lamps and stuff come with NEMA-15 plugs. There are 2 or 3 options for large appliance receptacles, 30-50A 240V stuff like dryers and stoves but that will be a stationary device on a dedicated circuit so it's a total non issue, install the correct cord on the appliance when you buy it, plug it in and forget about it. If you are confused it is because you are making incorrect assumptions having never set foot on the continent.