What if someone is WRONG on this forum?

[Halcyon]

But is flat earth worth discussing? Its very clearly done and dusted, if you come in here spouting endless flat earth claims, and don't read the evidence showing you are wrong, should you not be banned?

If it isn't worth discussing, then don't.  I'll admit to having been sucked into some discussions that seem silly in retrospect, but that's on me.  I wouldn't want to see people being banned to protect me from my own stupidity.  At some point a ban is necessary, but it is a drastic step that I'd like to see reserved for the most egregious cases.

"Worth" is down to the individual. I enjoy watching flat earth videos for example. I enjoy trying to learn about the thought process (and I use that term very loosely) and the psychology behind these lunatics. If nothing else, it's somewhat entertaining watching stupid people.

Likewise, I'm not religious in any sense of the word, but I do enjoy discussing religious concepts with people, trying to understand their perspective on things.

I'll admit to having been sucked into some discussions that seem silly in retrospect, but that's on me.

In spite of what George Bernard Shaw said, sometimes it's fun to get down in the mud and wrestle with the pig.  For a while, anyway.

This! Couldn't have put it better myself.

[thm_w]

But is flat earth worth discussing? Its very clearly done and dusted, if you come in here spouting endless flat earth claims, and don't read the evidence showing you are wrong, should you not be banned?

If it isn't worth discussing, then don't.  I'll admit to having been sucked into some discussions that seem silly in retrospect, but that's on me.  I wouldn't want to see people being banned to protect me from my own stupidity.  At some point a ban is necessary, but it is a drastic step that I'd like to see reserved for the most egregious cases.

Sure, so we'd agree that at some point it is a valid call. And in this case, would agree the line was not crossed.

[vk6zgo]

I noticed this topic is a 'Fast Mover', not sure if maybe there is a web site term for that kind of topic ?

   At any rate any response I've had for EPAIII for example gets old and with many other newer responders so sorry if my comments are dated, somewhat (it's only a matter of some minutes).

   My comment, RE: Antivax'er labels put on people:
   Got the usual seasonal FLU SHOT, first off it made my shoulder muscle really sore!  But now, that whole, left arm is weak and sore...the shot was in September...more than 3 months should have been sufficient for the arm muscles to recover.
   Thing is, I'm reluctant to bring the subject up, as folks are SOOO propagandized these days, (it's like a kindergarten play-pen out there these days).  I'll be labeled as an anti-vaxxing etc.etc.etc. with about 40 'slanderous' fictional labels, like racist etc.etc.etc.

   Powerful politician (you'd rec the name) using terms like 'mis-dis-information' a humourous yet pathetic symptom, of the modern stereotype Really Smart Dumb-ass ...prosecutor, doctor, Governor.

   So I'm intimidated.  Not by some individual, but I'd just rather skip the accusations; 'Anti-vax' etc. etc.  Many folks like me have gone underground these days.

   The News is saying that it's a Social Virus type affliction...then they flash a 'CoronaVirus' looking round foam thingy, to make their point.
So clever; that foam thingy, lifted straight out of the 'Covid19' images folder.

I usually SKIP the seasonal shots, altogether

Re your flu shot:-

Have you entertained the possibility that your current problem was NOT caused by the needle?
Perhaps there is something else seriously wrong with your arm, which needs investigation.
The possibility exists that if there is, it is why you had such a bad reaction to the shot.

When I had Covid, a month or so back, it affected my balance a bit, & while feeding the dogs, I fell, hurting my back on the metal tubing of the dog bed.
It was very sore, but only indirectly connected to Covid.

I do feel that Covid enhanced the pain & prolonged it, but it is "just a feeling".

Confusing coincidence with causality has caused a lot of witch hunts (real ones) in the past.

[RJSV]

   Yeah, but I'm in a typical set of doctors and a ring network of specialist doctors, exceeding my expertise, (supposedly).   The 'prime' person is too lazy to coordinate the other 9 or 10 specialists, leaving myself to take the reins...

   Now, whenever I encounter a doctor using common sense and paying attention, rather than shopping the patient out to yet another self-absorbed specialist, I feel thankful.
   One of the good ones has a PHD in management, along with the medical stuff.

[Andy Chee]

The current litmus test is the Whirlpool forums (whirlpool.net.au).

Interesting you mention whirlpool moderation.  Whirlpool locks threads for ongoing "thread vandalism", where the OP heavily edits their posts well after the fact, often to change the entire context of their argument, especially in situations where the OP is being heavily criticised.

I just noticed an instance of "thread vandalism" here:

[... and there we have it. Changing the post to make it look like people are disagreeing with you. There was no need to edit the original post when you can just add your new argument inline.

[vk6zgo]

Awkward question: should someone be allowed to continue beligerantly encouraging other people (especially beginners) to do things that are generally acknowledged to be dangerous?

We have a specifc rule about safety for that very reason. It's only been used once or twice, but it's there.
Everyone's level of "dangerous" is different. I famously say that anything over 12VDC scares the shit out of me. Then you have Electroboom and Photonic Induction.

A 12V car battery scares me in the wrong circumstances: drop metal across that and see how much disappears as vapour and blobs. Metal bracelets and necklaces are verboten EDIT: 2n3055 mentioned another classic: wrenches.

OTOH I have secondary school physics equipment where there is 230-400V (controlled by front panel potentiometer) on an exposed terminal. Touching that terminal with a finger causes the dekatron counters to spin It has a 5Mohm resistor in series, which is required so that a Geiger-Muller tube discharge generates a pulse, which is counted.

The particular problem encountered here is people telling beginners that floating a scope is OK, and that traditional scope probes are OK when connected to the mains. They never add the necessary pre-conditions, and - disgracefully IMHO - often belittle or deny them.

Traditional 'scope probes (those from legitimate sources) are OK when connected to the mains, if a number of important precautions are taken.
In many cases, for a quick look at the mains, just to "see if it is there", there is no need to attach the ground clip to anything, as there is a sufficiently good return path to ground via the neutral/ground connection at the power inlet to the building.

Another method which was used is the "quasi-differential" one, using the CH1+CH2 setting of the 'scope.

These methods were quite adequate in the past, when differential probes were similar in cost to a small car but are probably not worthwhile when such probes are relatively cheap, especially for beginners.

One problem is that beginners get a nice new shiny DSO, but have no analog signal sources to look at, unlike oldsters like myself, who first got our hot, sweaty little hands on a 'scope in a work situation, with multiple signal sources.
We also knew that if we wrecked anything, we would incur the wrath of the Boss--not something to take lightly!!!

Our beginner has zilch, & probably hasn't read the instructions to know about the cal output square wave, they can't look at a transformer secondary (even their "wall warts" are switch mode) so their "bright, enquiring little minds" fix on the mains as a convenient source.

As to "floating a 'scope"----- in all my years in Electronics, I have seen it done once.
That was being supervised by an EE, a Supervising Tech, a Senior Tech, & most important of all a lowly Tech with his hand on the Main circuit breaker handle.

After that one test, the 'scope was immediately returned to standard configuration.
Apart from that one time, it was NO!, NO!, NO!, NO!

So if a beginner can organise the personal attendance of a similar lot of expertise on the day, it might be OK!

[vk6zgo]

The current litmus test is the Whirlpool forums (whirlpool.net.au).

Interesting you mention whirlpool moderation.  Whirlpool locks threads for ongoing "thread vandalism", where the OP heavily edits their posts well after the fact, often to change the entire context of their argument, especially in situations where the OP is being heavily criticised.

I just noticed an instance of "thread vandalism" here:

[... and there we have it. Changing the post to make it look like people are disagreeing with you. There was no need to edit the original post when you can just add your new argument inline.

Another thing that Whirlpool do is to tolerate people who go "off topic" making posts that agree with the "approved narrative", even when the "narrative" is the most arrant nonsense.
Post a reply refuting such stuff & setting out the facts, & your post will be deleted as "off topic".
If you try to add a breath of commonsense to enough threads, you can incur a lifetime ban.

I was banned from the politics forum, but they gracefully allowed me to use the other forums,
I told them in ever such a nice fashion that they could shove it!

Then there is the sports site "The Roar", where if you disagree with the OP, your posting is very likely to disappear.

[thm_w]

When I had Covid, a month or so back, it affected my balance a bit, & while feeding the dogs, I fell, hurting my back on the metal tubing of the dog bed.
It was very sore, but only indirectly connected to Covid.

I do feel that Covid enhanced the pain & prolonged it, but it is "just a feeling".

Confusing coincidence with causality has caused a lot of witch hunts (real ones) in the past.

That sucks, multiple types of viruses can definitely directly cause inner ear issues: "The inner ear is one of the neurological systems that the virus may attack, and the resulting damage may cause vertigo and/or tinnitus". I had similar issues but didn't notice any illness prior... so not sure of the cause.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/labyrinthitis/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10174602/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9531925/

   Got the usual seasonal FLU SHOT, first off it made my shoulder muscle really sore!  But now, that whole, left arm is weak and sore...the shot was in September...more than 3 months should have been sufficient for the arm muscles to recover.

Yes 3 months should be enough to resolve any muscle pain, majority of side effects were gone within 3 days in this study, some small percentage lasted 2 weeks: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9898704/
BUT one thing you have to keep in mind, if your arm was temporarily weak and you changed your behavior to not use the muscles in that arm, it can become even weaker. You may need physiotherapy to strengthen and re-accustom yourself. If your posture is bad enough it can pinch and irritate nerves, causing weakness.
You can't always expect things to just get better on their own.

[RJSV]

   My point is that the patient shouldn't really be the last bastion of common sense, (leaving the personal gripes out of direct discussion.)
It's nice to track and verify any decisions, hopefully using common sense, but a patient shouldn't be first middle and last 'care expert'.
   I mean, heck, I can't legally prescribe medications, some of which are very dangerous.

[SiliconWizard]

And now the question is, what if everyone is wrong?

We are in a simulation anyway.

Well, not quite. It's a simulation of a simulation of a simulation of a ...

[pcprogrammer]

Talking about going off topic, this thread is full of it 

Did not want to participate, but since this thread was started after reinstating electrodacus and to discuss when to ban someone from the forum just because he/she is wrong despite being the thread owner (OP).

I myself see no reason to ban anyone just because they are wrong. Could think of other behavior as perfect ground for banning, but that is not the issue here. It is quite clear that one can ignore threads/members one does not agree on or like. Freedom of speech should rule here, just as the freedom to ignore is a sort of right just as well.

What I did notice is that electrodacus took the opportunity of being back to start a new thread with the same question already raised earlier in this thread. In itself no harm in it, but it amazes me that a lot of the same more established members jump on it to again try to reason with the unreasonable 

Sure I had my fun with it last year, but got tired of a lot of the nonsense, so I try to stick to worthwhile questions to put in a word, though not a lot due to my declining ability to concentrate and increasing fatigue when working on projects. Chronic illness sucks. 

[coppercone2]

just don't be wrong on a welding forum 

its like this when you there is video evidence of someone attempting to arc weld


they really wanna do a 'bend test'. not sure if its on your work piece though.

[pcprogrammer]

...Chronic illness sucks. 

Imagine how electrodacus feels!

Depends on his awareness of it.

[tggzzz]

The current litmus test is the Whirlpool forums (whirlpool.net.au).

Interesting you mention whirlpool moderation.  Whirlpool locks threads for ongoing "thread vandalism", where the OP heavily edits their posts well after the fact, often to change the entire context of their argument, especially in situations where the OP is being heavily criticised.

I just noticed an instance of "thread vandalism" here:

[... and there we have it. Changing the post to make it look like people are disagreeing with you. There was no need to edit the original post when you can just add your new argument inline.

It is extremely annoying to have to do that. Fortunately on this forum there are only a small number of similarly disreputable people - you can all guess who I'm thinking of!

[tggzzz]

   My point is that the patient shouldn't really be the last bastion of common sense, (leaving the personal gripes out of direct discussion.)
It's nice to track and verify any decisions, hopefully using common sense, but a patient shouldn't be first middle and last 'care expert'.
   I mean, heck, I can't legally prescribe medications, some of which are very dangerous.

I recommend using *extreme* caution when exercising "common sense".  There's tons of shit that common sense gets 100% wrong - and plenty of it will kill you.

Just so. "Common sense isn't".

In cases where a reputable person has a different opinion, I make an effort to understand the cause of the different opinion. That way I learn something, even if I don't change my opinion. There are a few people I listen to very carefully whenever they disagree with me

Talking to medics is just like talking to engineers or lawyers. The key point is to understand the different options, to enumerate the questions that differentiate between the options, and make sure you get and understand the answers to the questions (or why the question isn't important).

[tggzzz]

The particular problem encountered here is people telling beginners that floating a scope is OK, and that traditional scope probes are OK when connected to the mains. They never add the necessary pre-conditions, and - disgracefully IMHO - often belittle or deny them.

I hadn't spotted this thread, but I like seeing that the mods have locked it
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/isolation-of-the-oscilloscope-from-the-mains-with-two-transformers/msg5244183/#msg5244183

[bdunham7]

I hadn't spotted this thread, but I like seeing that the mods have locked it
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/isolation-of-the-oscilloscope-from-the-mains-with-two-transformers/msg5244183/#msg5244183

I was annoyed with the OP and done with the thread after his response to my query about fuses, but I really don't see why the thread needed locking.  Thread locks and bans are certainly necessary at times when they drift off course, but this one had merely drifted into a conversation regarding the details of his control circuit.  Perhaps there is more to the story.

[tggzzz]

I hadn't spotted this thread, but I like seeing that the mods have locked it
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/isolation-of-the-oscilloscope-from-the-mains-with-two-transformers/msg5244183/#msg5244183

I was annoyed with the OP and done with the thread after his response to my query about fuses, but I really don't see why the thread needed locking.  Thread locks and bans are certainly necessary at times when they drift off course, but this one had merely drifted into a conversation regarding the details of his control circuit.  Perhaps there is more to the story.

Agreed; his response was noteworthy, and could be regarded as damning evidence.

My eyebrows went up slightly earlier, when the OP wrote

Knowledge of physics at university level is sufficient to avoid making such stupid mistakes.
I don't have time to watch such stupid videos, made by donkeys who want to become famous on the Internet by posting such bullshit. 

That exemplifies my point in this thread, viz "... They never add the necessary pre-conditions, and - disgracefully IMHO - often belittle or deny them."

Given the danger in his proposals and his attitude to people that attempt to warn him, I think it is worth "officially warning" people who come along later that the whole thread is highly suspect and should be ignored.

Should the OP be banned for that? Not for that alone, IMHO, but if he persisted with the attitude and dangerous incompetence it might just be worth considering.

We all make mistakes. What matters is how we respond when that is pointed out.

[Neomys Sapiens]

When discussing this, one should keep in mind a sequence of events predating the existence of this forum by many years. A certain Mr. Ivor Catt did use crude rhetorics in order to put established facts into question. This did not only poison the exchange on ideas and comment in the former publication 'Electronics & Wireless World' to a degree, where sane people would simply disregard the pertaining section, but it might also bring calamities to someone being at the start of his career and getting the erroneous notion that you can argue about basic physics with nothing more than mere sophistries.

[IanB]

Knowledge of physics at university level is sufficient to avoid making such stupid mistakes.

Reminds me of one of my university lecturers who used to complain about the PhD students in the lab, and the dangerous things they would manage to do.

[tszaboo]

...Chronic illness sucks. 

Imagine how electrodacus feels!

Depends on his awareness of it.

Without going into details, are we dealing with a difficult personality here? I'm asking because he is a frequent contributor, and it might have went way over my head.

[RJSV]

   Well, it happened;  (I just wasn't expecting a quick go, with someone questioning my politics, after I'd posted...here!).   Amazing.
   By way of a couple of PM,s someone here wanted to delve 'into my politics', (although I partially was to blame, for posting regarding fears of being labeled or mis-labled).   Lol, let em speculate.
   (For more on that, please refer back to yesterday in this thread, regarding speculation of some 'bad' vaccination reaction...causing folks to speculate off the deep end.

   Now, I'm not going into detail, that political stuff isn't supposed to be posted, let's just say that a candidate, 'John Smith' has been associated with being 'anti-vaxer', and I felt intimidated in even mentioning (vaccinations).
   So, it happen, here, as I got the immediate question posed..."Was I a 'John Smith' supporter, wishing to create a 'Monarchy', somehow by way of a vaccination science comment ?"
Ridiculous, but that makes my point right here!

   But also, I now realize that the PM messages can be an avenue for those wishing to bypass the forum standards.  Not good.

Otherwise, some of my responses, would have needed to delve into actual wartime (current events) and THAT has no place here.   I'm learning.

A SORE ARM does not = Monarchy advocation

Thank you (Spork)
   

[T3sl4co1l]

I partially was to blame, for posting regarding fears of being labeled or mis-labled).   Lol, let em speculate.

I told you in the PM that I wasn't there to judge you or out you - and I didn't.  So I can't see what your problem is.

So, it happen, here, as I got the immediate question posed..."Was I a 'John Smith' supporter, wishing to create a 'Monarchy', somehow by way of a vaccination science comment ?"
Ridiculous, but that makes my point right here!

I don't see how it makes your point.  I asked you straight up.  You didn't answer.  But you didn't say "I'd rather not answer".  In fact it seemed you invited me to get into a much deeper conversation with you on the topic.  I'll be happy to post the exchange if there's some doubt about that.  Because you failed to answer, I asked again on our next exchange.  You confirmed my suspicion.  So if your point is that not all people with vax concerns are Trumpers (and I know that not all are), this sure as hell didn't prove your point.

But also, I now realize that the PM messages can be an avenue for those wishing to bypass the forum standards.  Not good.

Perhaps I'm not familiar with the "forum standards" you're speaking of.  I thought it best not to start a whole new tangent based on your delusional take on the vaccine.  And I thought you'd be more comfortable discussing it via PM.  Seems I was right.

If the object was to keep your MAGA status a secret so that people might take you seriously about anything, ever... why the hell would you post this!?

A SORE ARM does not = Monarchy advocation

Although it clearly does in your case.

Thank you (Spork)

De nada!

Can you, kindly, fuck off?

Some people do, in fact, have adverse reactions, and being concerned about it is absolutely valid.

I didn't gather the impression that RJSV was "Just Asking Questions" (I don't have a specific cite cutting to the nature of this rhetorical practice, but any of this playlist illustrates the general strategies ably [1] ), and indeed the point was that, because It'S BeEn PoLitICiZeD, one cannot even raise that valid and necessary concern; thus it's a "I would like to talk about X but not in the way that everyone now thinks being concerned about X means denying X".  Which, is the form of that post, and which, because of exactly this rhetorical environment, has now been pushed to the only reasonable way to talk about it.

And you still missed it.

Another case in point: it's impossible to discuss Palestine, because any simple statement, for or against either party, has been co-opted into a reductio ad absurdum accusing one of supporting the other's massacres, whether directly, or by way of saying of course they can defend themselves (conveniently ignoring the "don't start nothin', won't be nothin'" of the actual situation).  One must make ones' nuance on the situation clear as a predicate to further conversation, which, you will notice, makes the whole process much more annoying to engage in -- and thus speech is chilled.

Tim

[1] Because I can't hyperlink anything on YT, enjoy the embed:

[coromonadalix]

I hadn't spotted this thread, but I like seeing that the mods have locked it
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/isolation-of-the-oscilloscope-from-the-mains-with-two-transformers/msg5244183/#msg5244183

I was annoyed with the OP and done with the thread after his response to my query about fuses, but I really don't see why the thread needed locking.  Thread locks and bans are certainly necessary at times when they drift off course, but this one had merely drifted into a conversation regarding the details of his control circuit.  Perhaps there is more to the story.

now back with a 3rd   thread  loll  this is a WRONG

electrodacus   this is a WRONG

and sadly in 2023   the eevblog forum is being abused and pushed into corners until Dave or some strong mods intervene  ....

when a thread is now at least 2 pages long or over 2 pages and nothing is clear,  it is obvioulsy WRONG

[thm_w]

anddddddd thread locked due to personal attacks and politics. Just like clockwork.