why is the US not Metric

[angrybird]

Had a bad day?

No I was trying to make light of how silly it is for this argument to continue...  These metric supporters are like the catholics of the dark ages, wishing to force conversion of everyone to their specific way of thinking 

[KL27x]

like the catholics of the dark ages, wishing to force conversion of everyone to their specific way of thinking 

Well, the dark ages are here. Right in this thread, specifically. The prudent thing to do when the Crusaders have you outnumbered is to cross yourself and praise Mother Mary. Even if your true faith lies in Sponge Bob of the Square Pants.

In this thread, the Crusaders are the ones who are greatly outnumbered. So it's kinda amusing to watch them protest.

 

[angrybird]

But they have metric pitchforks.... I'm scared.......

[bsfeechannel]

These metric supporters are like the catholics of the dark ages, wishing to force conversion of everyone to their specific way of thinking 

We're on a mission from God.

[TimFox]

Noah to God:  “Right!  What’s a cubit?”

[xrunner]

Noah to God:  “Right!  What’s a cubit?”

Priceless! 

[bsfeechannel]

There are *big* avantages of not obsoleting the old systems/parts.   If you don't obsolete the old systems, then you maintain a manufacturing base so both SAE and metric parts are widely available and inexpensive.    If instead you abolish the older units system then you find that the parts for the old systems are more and more expensive, as you've found.

That's exactly my point. The drill I was trying to restore is OBSOLETE. The system of measures on which it was designed is OBSOLETE. The only country insisting in its use is the US.

And IN the US, the land of obsolete units and parts, it is expensive, compared to what you can find elsewhere in the world in metric.

If what you said was true, I should have found an inexpensive imperial part IN the US.

P.S.: Just for the record, since it was a restoration I said what the heck and bought the imperial one in the US, but I could have it made to order anywhere else, ending up with 1000 pieces, using just one (for 100 times cheaper) and selling the other imperial 999, our I could have fabricobbled one from a much cheaper metric equivalent. I almost tried that.

[bsfeechannel]

Noah to God:  “Right!  What’s a cubit?”

On second thoughts, the metric system makes too much sense to need the endorsement of a god.

[CatalinaWOW]

There are *big* avantages of not obsoleting the old systems/parts.   If you don't obsolete the old systems, then you maintain a manufacturing base so both SAE and metric parts are widely available and inexpensive.    If instead you abolish the older units system then you find that the parts for the old systems are more and more expensive, as you've found.

That's exactly my point. The drill I was trying to restore is OBSOLETE. The system of measures on which it was designed is OBSOLETE. The only country insisting in its use is the US.

And IN the US, the land of obsolete units and parts, it is expensive, compared to what you can find elsewhere in the world in metric.

If what you said was true, I should have found an inexpensive imperial part IN the US.

P.S.: Just for the record, since it was a restoration I said what the heck and bought the imperial one in the US, but I could have it made to order anywhere else, ending up with 1000 pieces, using just one (for 100 times cheaper) and selling the other imperial 999, our I could have fabricobbled one from a much cheaper metric equivalent. I almost tried that.

IF it was a standard part it would have been cheap.  But for a variety of reasons ranging from marketing to performance optimization manufacturers use non-standard parts.  This happens in both the imperial and metric world.  And those non-standard parts cost more in both the metric and imperial world.

If you were able to order a 1000 of your needed custom part for 1/100th of the unit cost of the part you needed it represents two things.  First, you found a very cheap source of supply.  While some fraction of that lower cost may be due to metric standardization, the vast majority is due to other factors. (It is really hard to understand how metric standardization lowers the cost of a non-standard, non-metric part, but I am willing to stipulate that there might be something.  Lower overhead or something like that.)  There are reasons that China dominates manufacturing worldwide, not just compared to the US.   All of the other metric countries in the world find it difficult to compete with Chinese costs.   The second reason is just as important.  As you demonstrated the market is there for the convenience and speed of just ordering one part.  The vendor of your part set his price accordingly.  This is also not an imperial/metric thing, it comes back to the original choice of a non-standard part.

This kind of comment is why so many people take issue with your rants.  There are many advantages to the metric system.  But you are willing to go far beyond the real advantages of metric in your arguments.  Whether it is pure trolling for your entertainment, or religious zeal for metric it takes away from your argument and is distasteful to many.

[KL27x]

This is like complaining I can't find a body panels or a swingarm wrench or a hydraulic clutch lever for a 1980 Honda VFR even in Japan.

You think we are making modern drills with the same collection of parts out of your antique? We just figured out a better way to put them all together?


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I vaguely recall bsfeechannel mentioned this was a ball bearing? This is actually something which makes sense to standardize. Ball bearings have insane tolerances and a very complex and sophisticated manufacturing method, and getting all the pieces of this process in harmony is a bear. And we don't really need otherwise identical ball bearings with OD in imperial and in metric.

In US, we use metric ball bearings pretty much, like everyone else, unless there's a really really good reason. Your old drill is a victim of metrication. Or of standardization in general.

A ball bearing manufacturer can stop his production line and tweak everything to churn out imperial sized bearings, but of course that costs a crapton. And why not crank out 1000 rather than just the one, after you've done all that and done all the tweaking and tuning and making dozens of pieces of scrap before they start coming out in spec (in the time they could have continued to churn out hundreds or thousands of the metric ones with a blindfold on; just another Wednesday). And then they have to tweak everything back after they make your stupid bearing.

An American restoring your drill would have figure out how to use the next closest size, by reaming out the hole bigger, or by machining a bushing to make the smaller one fit. Or maybe both. Reaming it out so you can make a bushing that isn't wafer thin. OTOH, if the hole is just a tad too big, you might even be able to press fit it in with just some shim stock strategically shoved between? Maybe a trick you can try if you don't have fancy tools and skills. Ditto to the shaft that goes in it, of course. Might need a bushing or building up and/or turning down. 

You could probably buy bushings or shims for some of these problems. If you sat down and did some math to know how to find it. Rather than just trying to order the numbers on the part.

[bsfeechannel]

IF it was a standard part it would have been cheap.

It IS a standard part. Those bearings are extensively used in all kinds of home appliances. Only that today they are metric.

There are many advantages to the metric system.  But you are willing to go far beyond the real advantages of metric in your arguments. 

Nope. I'm showing the REAL advantages of the metric system: one of them, cost reduction.

[KL27x]

See the edit on my previous post.

You're complaining that we did metricate on bearings.

[bsfeechannel]

Your old drill is a victim of metrication. Or of standardization in general.

As were my three perfectly working analog TV sets victims of the digital TV broadcasting. Am I complaining? Nope. This progress. Welcome, progress.

[KL27x]

Yes, and you personally experienced and were complaining about this problem. You fail to understand that a heck of a lot more stuff was built in the last 150 years than your old drill, and the US built and continues to use way more than its share of this stuff. And that there are much bigger and costlier fish frying in that pan than one dude's quest to restore an old drill. So read your posts. Read CatalinaWow's post. And try to put 2 and 2 together.

Think of how many Americans have had this problem you had as a result of this metrication. We know many more ways to fix this problem then you seem to (phone a ball bearing manufacturer to replicate this old part; no biggie, I just need one!) Probably because it's a way bigger problem for us than for you. In this case, it was worth it. Because of the miracle that is a ball bearing is pretty insane. We're happy to have any size at the prices we can buy them at from China. It costs way more to support imperial and metric? Whad'ya mean, the constant rebuilding and maintenance of precision equipment to shape hardened steel bits to limits beyond comprehension costs money? OK, just give me the metric and I'll deal with it.

How many more problems would we suffer, for how many generations, in order to complete your holy vision? And what do we get out of it? Try again, and suspend your belief in reincarnation.

[bsfeechannel]

Yes, and you personally experienced and were complaining about this problem.

I said it repeatedly, I'm not complaining. I was happy with the purchase. Only noted that it costs more than the modern metric. And it does so because it is obsolete. So maintaining something obsolete is expensive. Therefore maintaining the imperial system is expensive. Does it cost to change to metric? Of course it does, but have you stopped to calculate how much it costs to maintain the imperial system just because it is imperial?

This thread showed among other things that you don't do your homework so you have absolutely no objective reason to maintain imperial in the US. Your answers decay invariably to "The US is not metric just so that we can say that those who are questioning us are complaining we are not".

Unbelievable.

[tooki]

 

Man, this guy... complains that USA isn’t metric enough, complains that old non-metric parts are hard to find and expensive (meaning that we DID metricate!), and also seems to think that maintaining old stuff is a bad idea. Yes, let’s take everything that’s non-metric and put it in the trash. That should free up lots of space in museums and older cities. Tear down everything that’s not metric!

[angrybird]

I still want to see a leader of the metrics who is called "metroid prime".  I think this would be pretty sweet.

[bsfeechannel]

Yes, let’s take everything that’s non-metric and put it in the trash. That should free up lots of space in museums and older cities. Tear down everything that’s not metric!

Do you see the light?

[bsfeechannel]

I still want to see a leader of the metrics who is called "metroid prime".  I think this would be pretty sweet.

The "leader of the metrics" is reason. I guess that's why you don't see him much.

[KL27x]

Yes, let’s take everything that’s non-metric and put it in the trash. That should free up lots of space in museums and older cities. Tear down everything that’s not metric!

Do you see the light?

You haven't. You are perpetuating the problem you are crusading against. You're the one who restored this old drill rather than properly disposing of this imperial garbage. You cling to an old drill that can be replaced for under $20.00. But you want Americans to throw away a lot more.

[angrybird]

I still want to see a leader of the metrics who is called "metroid prime".  I think this would be pretty sweet.

The "leader of the metrics" is reason. I guess that's why you don't see him much.

Holy smokes, I had to call the fire department on that one.

[angrybird]

Yes, let’s take everything that’s non-metric and put it in the trash. That should free up lots of space in museums and older cities. Tear down everything that’s not metric!

Do you see the light?

You haven't. You are perpetuating the problem you are crusading against. You're the one who restored this old drill rather than properly disposing of this imperial garbage. You cling to an old drill that can be replaced for under $20.00. But you want Americans to throw away a lot more.

I would give him respect for fixing an old drill...  I've gone through at least half a dozen china drills (dewalt, milwaukee, and an off brand or two) in the past 10-15 years, meanwhile my 80's black and decker still runs like a champ... It's rather ridiculous! 

[CatalinaWOW]

Just for the record.

https://www.mcmaster.com/standard-sleeve-bearings

is the link to the McMaster-Carr directory for Oilite bearings (which is what bfees says he was buying).  They stock many, many sizes of such bearings in both Imperial and Metric sizes.  Most cost under $2.00, quite a few are under $1.00.  Prices on both the metric and imperial follow a similar pattern, with standard sizes having relatively low prices and a few odd ball sizes priced in the range that bfees mentioned.

I don't want to place an interpretation on my eyeball estimate that the metric prices are about 10-20% higher in general than similar sized imperial parts.

[KL27x]

A sleeve bearing? That ain't nothin' but a speed bump, even if you can't buy the correct size.

[CatalinaWOW]

A sleeve bearing? That ain't nothin' but a speed bump, even if you can't buy the correct size.

Yea, it is easy to machine a similar one to exact size.  Even in a home shop.  But I am sure that is what he was looking for.  He said Oilite bearing and they are bog common in hand drills.