Author Topic: Windows 11 is dying....  (Read 134346 times)

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Offline BrianHGTopic starter

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Re: Windows 11 is dying....
« Reply #300 on: January 28, 2026, 12:56:56 am »
My solution:

Windoze 7

No phoning home.
No upgrades possible, or needed.
No endless diddling with configuration files and tweaking the OS (looking at you, *nix).
Does what I need it to do well.

Disclaimer: I'm a hobbyist, so I'm not constrained by needing the latest and greatest either in the OS or applications.
Who's applyig fixes to windows 7 when that 0day pops up? Are you calling Gates?
Plus, what about the "min" specs that programs come with?

Win10 is basically obsolete now.
----AND---
Who's applyig fixes to windows 7 when that 0day pops up? Are you calling Gates?
Plus, what about the "min" specs that programs come with?

It's interesting - the "no security updates" mantra is rolled out all the time when people talk about keeping their Windows 7 machines running. But where is the evidence? When was the last time a showstopper virus or malware brought the W7 community to its knees? The answer: never. Windows 7 just works, and although there might be theoretical risks there seem to be little or no real risks. Sitting behind a NAT router makes an enormous difference. After that, a reasonable degree of security hygiene by the users seems to be enough.

For Win7, once a month, just go here: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/wdsi/defenderupdates
And download 'Microsoft Security Essentials 64bit'.

You'll get the latest Microsoft Security Essentials virus definitions and security patches all the way up to today's Win11.  You just need to download and install once in awhile & Windows 'Action Center' will stop bugging you about you PC being unprotected.


I know the patches are only on the firewall and virus scans, but its still something.
Also, in my networking, I have completely disabled any support for IPV6...

Offline Analog Kid

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Re: Windows 11 is dying....
« Reply #301 on: January 28, 2026, 01:32:00 am »
For Win7, once a month, just go here: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/wdsi/defenderupdates
And download 'Microsoft Security Essentials 64bit'.

You'll get the latest Microsoft Security Essentials virus definitions and security patches all the way up to today's Win11.  You just need to download and install once in awhile & Windows 'Action Center' will stop bugging you about you PC being unprotected.

Brian,
I tried that. Went to that page and downloaded both the Microsoft Security Essentials and the Windows Defender in Windows 7 and Windows Vista (different executables).

Neither one did anything.
I checked in Task Manager, and both of them ran for a few seconds, then closed themselves. No dialog appeared, no clue of any kind. It appeared they did nothing.

I guess my copy of Windows 7 is truly obsolete now, to the point where not even these updates will work?

Oh well.
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: Windows 11 is dying....
« Reply #302 on: January 28, 2026, 02:33:51 am »
Also, in my networking, I have completely disabled any support for IPV6...

Why? It's new and scary? Don't trust your router? Well then, you can't trust it with IPv4 either..
 

Offline BrianHGTopic starter

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Re: Windows 11 is dying....
« Reply #303 on: January 28, 2026, 04:51:04 am »
For Win7, once a month, just go here: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/wdsi/defenderupdates
And download 'Microsoft Security Essentials 64bit'.

You'll get the latest Microsoft Security Essentials virus definitions and security patches all the way up to today's Win11.  You just need to download and install once in awhile & Windows 'Action Center' will stop bugging you about you PC being unprotected.

Brian,
I tried that. Went to that page and downloaded both the Microsoft Security Essentials and the Windows Defender in Windows 7 and Windows Vista (different executables).

Neither one did anything.
I checked in Task Manager, and both of them ran for a few seconds, then closed themselves. No dialog appeared, no clue of any kind. It appeared they did nothing.

I guess my copy of Windows 7 is truly obsolete now, to the point where not even these updates will work?

Oh well.
After you run it, go into defender and check the 'Update' tab.  It should now read the latest date.
Next, all you need to do is a 'Quick Scan' and once your system is scanned, all the orange/red defender stats will go green, unless it find a virus...


Remember, you need Microsoft Security Essentials installed and running...

Offline BrianHGTopic starter

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Re: Windows 11 is dying....
« Reply #304 on: January 28, 2026, 05:02:15 am »
Here:






I know the downloads say nothing after running...  I think it is on purpose.

Offline BrianHGTopic starter

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Re: Windows 11 is dying....
« Reply #305 on: January 28, 2026, 05:09:18 am »
Also, in my networking, I have completely disabled any support for IPV6...

Why? It's new and scary? Don't trust your router? Well then, you can't trust it with IPv4 either..
IPV6 has many more security holes as it is newer and has many more sophisticated commands leading to many more attack vectors.
Never had problems exclusively running V4 exclusively for over a decade.

Offline PlainName

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Re: Windows 11 is dying....
« Reply #306 on: January 28, 2026, 07:39:53 am »
Which of the 50 flavors of Linux? Debian Ubuntu LTS / Mint, or RedHat Rocky or Alma, maybe Slack? Maybe freeBSD, or one of each. lol.
It is kind of funny how people think there are many flavours of Linux. In reality there are less than a handful of window managers and the underlying software is all the same. A Linux distribution is nothing more than a playlist on Spotify. Some are better curated than others and have different defaults but all can be made to look & feel the same.

It's not quite that simple.

Some time ago when I was seriously looking to migrate off Windows I gave some of the popular repos a proper trial. Obviously, I would need to use them in anger for a while to find out what they are really like, so I figured I should arrange things so my data and configs would remain the same for all repos, and I could then just swap in which one took my fancy at the time. They are all much of a muchness after all, right? Nope. I never successfully transplanted my stuff from one repo to another. Looked very much you made your choice and that was it unless you wanted to do a proper migration each time.
 

Online ebastler

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Re: Windows 11 is dying....
« Reply #307 on: January 28, 2026, 07:41:39 am »
Zero day for Windows 7? Is that a real thing, or just some peoples' supposition?
I mean, that would require some kind of active counter within the OS that disables it when it reaches zero, right?
Like a ticking time bomb.
Now, I have a very low opinion of Micro$oft, but I really can't see them doing something nasty like that.

Not sure what you are thinking of -- but a "zero-day exploit" or "zero day vulnerability" is something different: a vulnerability that the bad guys find and exploit before the developers learn about it, or before the developers have an opportunity to fix it. With an unmaintained piece of software like Windows 7, the time window for "before the developers fix it" essentially becomes infinitely long.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-day_vulnerability
 

Offline PlainName

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Re: Windows 11 is dying....
« Reply #308 on: January 28, 2026, 07:45:12 am »
I tried that. Went to that page and downloaded both the Microsoft Security Essentials and the Windows Defender in Windows 7 and Windows Vista (different executables).

Neither one did anything.

If you need an AV which is being updated and actually works, take a look at Bitdefender. Costs, but quite reasonable if you buy from somewhere like Amazon.
 

Offline PlainName

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Re: Windows 11 is dying....
« Reply #309 on: January 28, 2026, 07:50:13 am »
Zero day for Windows 7? Is that a real thing, or just some peoples' supposition?
I mean, that would require some kind of active counter within the OS that disables it when it reaches zero, right?
Like a ticking time bomb.
Now, I have a very low opinion of Micro$oft, but I really can't see them doing something nasty like that.

Not sure what you are thinking of -- but a "zero-day exploit" or "zero day vulnerability" is something different: a vulnerability that the bad guys find and exploit before the developers learn about it, or before the developers have an opportunity to fix it. With an unmaintained piece of software like Windows 7, the time window for "before the developers fix it" essentially becomes infinitely long.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-day_vulnerability

This is true and something to think about. But... W7 has been unmaintained for a long while, which tips the odds:

1. If there's a hole it will likely have been found by now.

2. If no-one is dicking with it they're not adding potential holes.

But, against that, look at the recent log4j issue which has been static for many, many years. W7 also came from a time when Microsoft actually seemed to test and fix stuff, not just roll it out to see what breaks.
 

Offline soldar

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Re: Windows 11 is dying....
« Reply #310 on: January 28, 2026, 08:16:19 am »
Also, in my networking, I have completely disabled any support for IPV6...

Why? It's new and scary? Don't trust your router? Well then, you can't trust it with IPv4 either..

I also disable IPV6 in all my routers. It forces the use of NAT which is a powerful defense.
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Offline PlainName

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Re: Windows 11 is dying....
« Reply #311 on: January 28, 2026, 09:25:55 am »
I don't use IPv6 because I can't remember any of the addresses. And it always looks like a corrupted output from a misconfigured serial port ;)
 
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Offline paulca

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Re: Windows 11 is dying....
« Reply #312 on: January 28, 2026, 09:49:10 am »
Who's applyig fixes to windows 7 when that 0day pops up? Are you calling Gates?
Plus, what about the "min" specs that programs come with?

It's interesting - the "no security updates" mantra is rolled out all the time when people talk about keeping their Windows 7 machines running. But where is the evidence? When was the last time a showstopper virus or malware brought the W7 community to its knees? The answer: never. Windows 7 just works, and although there might be theoretical risks there seem to be little or no real risks. Sitting behind a NAT router makes an enormous difference. After that, a reasonable degree of security hygiene by the users seems to be enough.

Try the FBI, Security Week, or Kapersky.

When wanna cry came out, 98% of the computers which got infected where Windows 7 machines.  M$ even released an emergency patch for it after end-of-life.  That was in 2020 though.

A manufacturing firm for the UK defense agencies lost 10Gb of "secured" data because the attackers got a bot onto a Windows 7 machine running a CNC machine and worked from there.

Most botnets run on Windows 7 and other out of date windows.  You probably wouldn't even know you were infected, they don't want you to know they are using your machine and internet connection for their own means.

This is what annoys me.  You all seem worried about what your out of date system will do to YOU.  I am more worried about it being an infected mess of bot nets and we all have to deal with it.
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Online ebastler

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Re: Windows 11 is dying....
« Reply #313 on: January 28, 2026, 10:12:57 am »
This is what annoys me.  You all seem worried about what your out of date system will do to YOU.  I am more worried about it being an infected mess of bot nets and we all have to deal with it.

Very good point. As of today, I think it is safe to assume that hardly any Windows 7 computers are used for mission-critical tasks and data in companies. Hence, no point in attacking the owners with some ransomware attack.

But conversely, many Windows 7 machines will be used by people who don't care, or have them run some background tasks and have more or less forgotten about the computer. So they are great targets for botnets, where many bots will go unnoticed by the machine's owner for a long time.
 

Offline paulca

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Re: Windows 11 is dying....
« Reply #314 on: January 28, 2026, 10:41:31 am »
This is what annoys me.  You all seem worried about what your out of date system will do to YOU.  I am more worried about it being an infected mess of bot nets and we all have to deal with it.

Very good point. As of today, I think it is safe to assume that hardly any Windows 7 computers are used for mission-critical tasks and data in companies. Hence, no point in attacking the owners with some ransomware attack.

But conversely, many Windows 7 machines will be used by people who don't care, or have them run some background tasks and have more or less forgotten about the computer. So they are great targets for botnets, where many bots will go unnoticed by the machine's owner for a long time.

When the bots are installed on the Windows 7 machine which does the label printer on the shop floor... how likely is it that the box has a valid "LAN" 'green zone' connection to the company wider networks?  How long do you think it will take them to scan that for "routes of exploration" and suddenly they find themselves on Sharepoint and able to download the company accounts and payments or payroll data?

Also.  After making off with the goods, do you think they are going to leave a note or crash your systems to tell you?  An amateur or a nut job who wants to "leave a mark" and "get noticed" might, but a professional will just leave the bot net silent and sell the data immediately on Tor.

Imagine when an exec team member bursts into your lab and yells, "Your osciliscope running Windows 7 did WHAT EXACTLY to our company?"
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Offline paulca

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Re: Windows 11 is dying....
« Reply #315 on: January 28, 2026, 11:13:51 am »
The vector of attack when there is a firewall is usually someone, somewhere in the company, maybe even on Windows 11 or Mac clicks a phishing link or installs a malware screensaver.

That malware, if potent, will immediately look for other machines to infect via open LAN ports and services like SMB on old windows machines.

So while the initial "dumb" was a human, which are usually the weakest list in security statistically, the "lateral movement" that immediately follows infects the out-of-support machines easily, providing more access to install more tooling to elevate the attack.

Targetting.  No you are not special.  This is why you get attacked not why you can't.  It's not someone or somegroup thinking, "Let's attack ebastlers Windows 7  machine.", it's a bot net of thousands of computers running simple scripts scanning everyone for vuls.  As a first order it might just be a bot running "Detect OS" scans and logging Windows 7 computers IPs and details.  Another script feeds off those logs, maybe on someone elses infected PC and runs, "Discover known Win7 exploits" and reports those back.

Eventually a human gets a list of potential targets and their vulneribilities and the IP space discovered etc.

If you are on that list, they may spend a while manually digging around in your stuff to see what they can find or just use it to attack other vulnerible computers.  The attacks all appear to come from random IPs from random users, because they are the ones already infected with the bots.

Some bots are just while(true){Scan(); Report()}  However, others are: "Notify owner.  Await login response.  Launch hack toolkit shell"
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Offline PlainName

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Re: Windows 11 is dying....
« Reply #316 on: January 28, 2026, 12:53:20 pm »
Quote
and yells, "Your osciliscope running Windows 7 did WHAT EXACTLY to our company?"

At least it was running. With W10+ it'd still be offline updating  :-DD
 
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Online Monkeh

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Re: Windows 11 is dying....
« Reply #317 on: January 28, 2026, 02:51:24 pm »
This is true and something to think about. But... W7 has been unmaintained for a long while, which tips the odds:

1. If there's a hole it will likely have been found by now.

2. If no-one is dicking with it they're not adding potential holes.

7 almost certainly still has numerous serious local and remote exploitable flaws. What tips the odds is the lack of people looking for them, as it's not really a meaningful target any more - but, if it shares any with newer products, they will never get fixed in 7.

I also disable IPV6 in all my routers. It forces the use of NAT which is a powerful defense.

It's no more powerful a defense than a basic firewall rule.

I don't use IPv6 because I can't remember any of the addresses. And it always looks like a corrupted output from a misconfigured serial port ;)

DNS has been around for 40 years..
 

Offline Infraviolet

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Re: Windows 11 is dying....
« Reply #318 on: January 28, 2026, 03:44:54 pm »
To PlainName's question, the Windows version I was using before fleeing the Microsoft disaster-zone as a refugee to Linux was 8.1. 8.1 wasn't particularly good, but I got it to do what was needed. 8/8.1 had a dreadful idea with the tablet-style interface as well as the regular one, but it still gave you a lot more levers of control over your own system than 10 did. Then Microsoft started mucking around with GWX.exe and I realised they couldn't be trusted, I blocked it from actually harming my systems but trust was gone. Then seeing that Win 10 would forcibly update you with whatever Microsoft wanted, whenever they wanted it, I knew I had to escape. Started trying live Linux distros then (circa 2015-2016). Made the full migration of my personal systems in 2017-2018, haven't operated a Windows machine of my own (I've used Windows accounts on shared systems and can tell from those that the Windows OS continues to get messier and more confusing from an actually-getting-it-set-up-as-you-want perspective even as its split-personality 8/8.1 UI has been faded out) since then, and very glad of it.

I wouldn't say I've simply been simply "lucky" in terms of Linux (Mint in my case) being so crash-proof and reliable, I've put very similar installs on multiple different hardware and they've all worked nearly flawlessly. Maybe people who try more bleeding-edge distros have a tougher time. But I use Linux as a working system, I use the terminal but I don't spend my time tinkering there for the sake of it. I like an OS which works, I need it to be under my control, I need to be able to debug common easy things, and for serious things have the option to debug by the last resort of rolling back a system to an earleir saved state (have thankfully never had to do this on Linux, did have to several times with Win 8/8.1) is essential. Linux (Mint) fulfils all of these, when I evangelise about it I'm doing so from the perspective of a user, not a kernel developer.



When I talked about helping elderly relatives get away from "crash-prone" Windows, I guess "crash" was the wrong work. Some of the Windows troubles he was having would have been PEBCAK errors, the kinds which Windows really exacerbated by constantly switching things around. Perhaps "crashes" are the wrong way to think of most Windows errors, but "It was able to do what I wanted, yet it changed something and now it won't" is common with an OS where the user's level of control is less than the level of control which a remote corporation can exert. I cannot regard an operating system which you can't keep set up in just the way you like it as being "stable", even if the faults aren't crashes in the classical sense.

As for Linux being "more secure", for desktop purposes it probably is. Most examples of Linux machines being hacked are servers running Linux. Securing a server which is operated specifically so it can be remotely connected to (or serve webpages, run web services...) is a much harder prospect than simply securing a local machine. I'd say that for local desktop machine Linux does manage better security than Windows, but perhaps mostly because targeting Linux desktop machines isn't what malware-writers are interested in, they want to go after high-value webservers (which often are Linux) or the most widely used desktop machines (which are still Windows).

On the topic of:
"Again, in context Infraviolet had implied that Windows is always changing as a significant down side to using Windows. So I guess that's "what"."
I would say would anyone want a hammer where the length of the handle and shape of the head varied from day to day? Would anyone want a power drill where the direction they have to turn the chuck to tighten it swaps every week? A computer is a tool, does anyone want to regularly need to relearn how to use a tool they already have? Historically Windows was quite like a stable tool, not much changed all that drastically for the normal-to-somewhat-power level of user between the start of XP and the later days of 7. 8 and onwards though has been constant, and usually unwelcome from most users, change. That's why I'd saying maintaining long-term consistency is a good thing, Mint at any rate has certainly excelled in this regard.

On the topic of:
"In my experience Windows users tend to be "Single boxed" users"
I certainly find that true from experience, but its about the worst way to be. When a computer goes wrong you need another computer to be able to fix it, if for no other reason than to online to look up how. I have multiple boxes (one for daily use, one to pack quickly for travel...), but they're all running almost identical Linux systems (some even truly identical, dd copies of one another's HDD). The only time, since running Linux, I've ever had to hurriedly switch over from my main one to a spare was when the main one's HDD started dying, a hardware fault that any OS can succumb to, and I needed another PC to go online, order a new HDD/SSD, and then use the backup one until the new drive arrived and I'd completed all the reinstall and copying back across of files. Atleast with Linux the going-online-to-lookup-the-fix part is easy with a live USB for some types of fault, I know Windows live USBs can be made, but they're not as widely known to the Windows user community as live USBs are to the Linux community. Being single-boxed seems actively dangerous for anyone, but even worse so for Windows... that said if it's a forced Windows update that takes the main box out of service then the others might be affected at the same time too, with Linux if an update messes up a system you simply choose not to run updates on any other boxes until you've worked out how to mitigate or a new patch-for-the-problem-patch has been released.

Regarding Windows 7 security updates, the MS Security Essentials tool is an antivirus, it isn't a substitute for patches to vulnerabilities in the OS. If you're using a non-microsoft browser then keeping this up-to-date (for as long as they won't refuse to update themselves on an old Windows version) mitigates a lot of the risks. But in general, simply because Windows does seem to suffer a lot more vulnerabilities (of the really important kind related to remote code execution) in the desktop OS than Linux does, I'd be a lot happier going online with a seriously obsolete Linux distro than with a Windows OS that was even just a little out-of-date. Offline usage ofcourse, Win 7 , or Win XP can be perfect for some people.

"Your osciliscope running Windows 7 did WHAT EXACTLY to our company?"
The question isn't why was it running 7, the question is why it was connected to the internet and/or company internal networks.
 

Offline asmi

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Re: Windows 11 is dying....
« Reply #319 on: January 28, 2026, 03:49:52 pm »
My basic workflow in Windows 11 is still the same as it was in Windows 7 - I turn it on, log in, press "Win" key on a keyboard, start typing first characters of a software I want to launch, select it from the results, and that's basically it. For file management I've been using Total Commander for the past 20 years or so, so I don't even know if built-in explorer got any better or not. My main desktop has an installation of Windows which is super old - it was originally Windows 8.1 (I bought a boxed version when I was building a new PC), which was later upgraded to Win 10, and recently to Win 11. It successfully survived a full platform change (from Intel x99 3930K to AMD AM4 5950X), numerous upgrades to a system drive (from SATA SSD 256GB to 1 TB to 2 TB, then to NVMe M.2 SSD 2 TB in a new platform to 4 TB) and many less significant upgrades (like GPU upgrades from dual 680 in SLI to Titan X to 2070 Super to 3080 Ti and recently to 5080, or addition of fingerprint sensor and many other things) without having to reinstall the system. People complain about setting and such, which makes me wonder what are you doing with your PC that you need to change settings so often. I can't remember last time I went there at all.

Offline soldar

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Re: Windows 11 is dying....
« Reply #320 on: January 28, 2026, 04:14:16 pm »
People complain about setting and such, which makes me wonder what are you doing with your PC that you need to change settings so often. I can't remember last time I went there at all.

I don't use Windows but I think the complaint here is that it is MS who keeps changing things, pushing "updates" which break things which no longer work. And users wish MS would leave well enough alone. 




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Offline asmi

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Re: Windows 11 is dying....
« Reply #321 on: January 28, 2026, 04:24:05 pm »
I don't use Windows but I think the complaint here is that it is MS who keeps changing things, pushing "updates" which break things which no longer work. And users wish MS would leave well enough alone. 
I've seen these videos, but I never actually experienced any of it on any of win machines in my family. I'm not saying it does not happen, I know that with the user base as large as diverse as that of Windows, just about any change will have a pretty good chance to break something for somebody somewhere no matter how much effort you put into QA. What I'm saying it does not seem to affect my systems. Maybe because I usually don't install update immediately as they become available, but wait a bit - kinda like what most companies do :-//

So putting these clickbait videos aside, when was last time a Windows update actually broke something for you on your machine? Not "I heard about it/seen a video/read on a forum", but in your own personal experience? I can't be the only lucky one for whom everything just works for years without any problems whatsoever?

Offline Randy222

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Re: Windows 11 is dying....
« Reply #322 on: January 28, 2026, 05:05:01 pm »
The Win7 MSE can still be updated manually.
But the technology under MSE is legacy (all the static def tech is). You can walk around static definitions by changing a malware file just slightly.
It's like Norton AV from 1990 vs Crowdstrike of 2026.

In other words, you may be updating Win7 MSE defs, but it's mostly useless in 2026.

MS should be responsible and backport MS Defender knowing the world still uses their crud that was released 30yrs ago. But MS is not responsible that way.

AVG is probably way better than MSE, and, AVG still works and auto-updates in Win7.

Do you still have a stack of win3.11 install floppies? ;)


Detection and Protection. AVG vs MSE
AVG offers real-time protection, heuristic scanning, and behavior-based detection, making it effective against emerging threats.  It supports full, custom, and scheduled scans.
MSE provides solid core antivirus protection with real-time scanning and regular definition updates.  However, independent tests from 2014 onward show MSE lagged behind AVG in detection rates, especially in proactive and retrospective malware tests
 

Offline SteveThackery

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Re: Windows 11 is dying....
« Reply #323 on: January 28, 2026, 05:45:48 pm »
So putting these clickbait videos aside, when was last time a Windows update actually broke something for you on your machine? Not "I heard about it/seen a video/read on a forum", but in your own personal experience? I can't be the only lucky one for whom everything just works for years without any problems whatsoever?

You aren't - my experience is the same. To the very best of my recollection I don't think I've ever had an update break something. Also, I literally cannot remember the last time my machine had a BSOD. It has happened, definitely, but it must be a heck of an long way back - 20 years, probably.

Last time I said that, the Windows haters decided I must only use my machine for emails and web browsing, but they'd be wrong. I've posted elsewhere what I use my workstation for, so I won't go into it again, but I pretty much count as a "power user" (dreadful term), having used Windows almost every day since W3.1 for a wide range of work, including CAD, video editing, software development, blah blah. To be fair, I moved to NT as soon as NT4 came out, so I guess I've enjoyed the superior stability it delivers.
 

Offline Randy222

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Re: Windows 11 is dying....
« Reply #324 on: January 28, 2026, 05:49:43 pm »
Just for fun, still available if you want it

POSready 2009 ("XP Professional") - https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=11196
POSready 7 ("Win7") - https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=26558

Have at it.

Note the ID numbers in URL, you can find other stuff with different ID's
« Last Edit: January 28, 2026, 06:03:31 pm by Randy222 »
 


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