Windows 11 update screwed up checkbox and radiobox size on older dialogs

[Renate]

After a Windows 11 update, suddenly checkboxes and radiobuttons are much larger than they were on older programs.
Apparently this is something that Microsoft has done in the past and will continue to do in the future.

The fix is to set your font scaling in Display Settings to something different, then back to how you actually want it.
This won't fix it until you do a restart.

[SteveThackery]

----- THACKERY STANDARD RANT #6 -----

<Removed because it's boring and everyone has read it before.>

------ END OF RANT ------

This latest hack of enlarging the W7-era UI elements to make them (slightly) more touch-friendly is another hideous bodge, obviously done as a temporary stop-gap as they dredge up the last of the old UI elements and dump them.

EDIT: I'm sorry, I should have done some more research. My comment assumes this change is deliberate. It could, of course, be accidental - a bug.

[tom66]

For some reason, Microsoft decided to make Windows 8 a touch-oriented OS. It was half-baked, but worked pretty well if you did actually have a Windows tablet at the time (I did).

Since then more and more of the UI has been made touch-friendly, and as a keyboard/mouse user I detest it. Now, with Windows 11, EVERYTHING IS SO BLOODY BIG. I think my mouse mileage has at least doubled, maybe tripled, between Windows 7 and Windows 11.

Let me be clear: I think W11 is an excellent OS for tablet users. But it's shit for keyboard/mouse users. Microsoft made the terrible (in my opinion) decision to design a UI that was supposed to work for both touch-oriented and keyboard/mouse users, and failed: it works for touch, but not for keyboard/mouse.

Honestly, I think the W7 UI furniture was as close to ideal as possible for mouse/keyboard users, having been tuned and refined over 30-odd years. And now MS have almost completely banished it.

W11 keyboard/mouse users are forced to use a UI optimised for touch, and I hate that. Apple got it right: two separate OSs - MacOS and iPadOS. Microsoft should have done the same thing.

This latest hack of enlarging the W7-era UI elements to make them (slightly) more touch-friendly is another hideous bodge, obviously done as a temporary stop-gap as they dredge up the last of the old UI elements and dump them.

I haven't noticed any growth in button / object sizes in W10 or W11.  Maybe the display scaling is set incorrectly on your system?  I tend to run 4K monitors at either 125% or 150% scaling.

[SteveThackery]

I haven't noticed any growth in button / object sizes in W10 or W11.  Maybe the display scaling is set incorrectly on your system?  I tend to run 4K monitors at either 125% or 150% scaling.

Please see my edited Reply #2. The OP implies that it has only just happened, after a W11 update. I prematurely assumed it was deliberate. I'm going to check some of my old Win32 programs to see if anything has changed.

By the way, there is no such thing as "incorrect" display scaling. You set it as you want it. I use 125%.

[Randy222]

MyCrudSoft gave some elements a control parameter tied into Copilot, as the ai bot learns it will dynamically change things thinking it's best for you.

[SteveThackery]

MyCrudSoft....

Do you think using infantile mis-spellings makes you look cool, or something? "MyCrudSoft", "Micro$oft", "Crapple", "Windoze", "Winblows"; "Linsux"; "Facecrook", blah, blah.

Yawn. It's schoolkid-level tedium. Mind you, I have noticed that computer geeks do seem unusually infantile, so maybe that's explains why you think it's smart.

Personally I don't feel the need to use such childish devices to express my opinions of software companies; being an articulate and literate adult I use actual sentences formed from opinions and arguments.

[tom66]

I haven't noticed any growth in button / object sizes in W10 or W11.  Maybe the display scaling is set incorrectly on your system?  I tend to run 4K monitors at either 125% or 150% scaling.

Please see my edited Reply #2. The OP implies that it has only just happened, after a W11 update. I prematurely assumed it was deliberate. I'm going to check some of my old Win32 programs to see if anything has changed.

By the way, there is no such thing as "incorrect" display scaling. You set it as you want it. I use 125%.

By "incorrect" I mean the scaling could be set differently between the Windows UI and then some applications use the registry/proprietary settings (predates Windows unifying these).  If those exist for the program then you may try setting them at 100% and then adjusting Windows settings if needed.  Vivado in particular has this issue on Windows systems, and there's a way to force it to use the Windows scaling values instead of its own. No idea why it would default to anything but that on a modern platform but it's not as if the rest of the software is bug free so, why not add more.

[Renate]

As my original post shows the problem there is not scaling of dialogs or scaling of fonts or scaling of pixels.

There are other issues that are similar to this but entirely different.

If you see an older Windows program and it looks kind of fuzzy, it's because Windows doesn't think that it's "DPI aware" and does a horrible rescaling of the window after it has been composited to the frame buffer by your program.
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/shellscalingapi/nf-shellscalingapi-setprocessdpiawareness
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/shellscalingapi/ne-shellscalingapi-process_dpi_awareness

[Randy222]

MyCrudSoft....

Do you think using infantile mis-spellings makes you look cool, or something? "MyCrudSoft", "Micro$oft", "Crapple", "Windoze", "Winblows"; "Linsux"; "Facecrook", blah, blah.

Nope. But apparently you got triggered, and wasted a bunch of time, energy, and 1's and 0's. Good job.

[SteveThackery]

But apparently you got triggered, and wasted a bunch of time, energy, and 1's and 0's. Good job.

Talk of wasting those things is ironic coming from you.

"Triggered"? Possibly, but it's just another of my Thackery Standard Rants™. I don't apologise for taking an anti-toddler stance on a grown-up forum like this.

[Randy222]

Talk of wasting those things is ironic coming from you.

"Triggered"? Possibly, but it's just another of my Thackery Standard Rants™. I don't apologise for taking an anti-toddler stance on a grown-up forum like this.

You know eevb is an "all opinion!" site, yes? 

[SteveThackery]

You know eevb is an "all opinion!" site, yes? 

Of course, hence sharing my opinion of your conduct. "Infantile" being the key word.

[Analog Kid]

Of course, hence sharing my opinion of your conduct. "Infantile" being the key word.

Sorry, not sorry, Steve, but you do seem a bit ... overprotective of Micro$oft* at times (as if they needed your help!).

* My preferred appellation for them, infantile or not, due to their many shortcomings and transgressions.

[Randy222]

Of course, hence sharing my opinion of your conduct. "Infantile" being the key word.

Sorry, not sorry, Steve, but you do seem a bit ... overprotective of Micro$oft* at times (as if they needed your help!).

* My preferred appellation for them, infantile or not, due to their many shortcomings and transgressions.

It's a TM. 

Thackery Standard Rants™

Let's trigger another with MICRO-SOFT, which accurately describes how soft/crappy Windows security is, down at the micro level.
Yep, I still use windoze.

[Simon]

For some reason, Microsoft decided to make Windows 8 a touch-oriented OS. It was half-baked, but worked pretty well if you did actually have a Windows tablet at the time (I did).

Since then more and more of the UI has been made touch-friendly, and as a keyboard/mouse user I detest it. Now, with Windows 11, EVERYTHING IS SO BLOODY BIG. I think my mouse mileage has at least doubled, maybe tripled, between Windows 7 and Windows 11.

Let me be clear: I think W11 is an excellent OS for tablet users. But it's shit for keyboard/mouse users. Microsoft made the terrible (in my opinion) decision to design a UI that was supposed to work for both touch-oriented and keyboard/mouse users, and failed: it works for touch, but not for keyboard/mouse.

Honestly, I think the W7 UI furniture was as close to ideal as possible for mouse/keyboard users, having been tuned and refined over 30-odd years. And now MS have almost completely banished it.

W11 keyboard/mouse users are forced to use a UI optimised for touch, and I hate that. Apple got it right: two separate OSs - MacOS and iPadOS. Microsoft should have done the same thing.

This latest hack of enlarging the W7-era UI elements to make them (slightly) more touch-friendly is another hideous bodge, obviously done as a temporary stop-gap as they dredge up the last of the old UI elements and dump them.

I haven't noticed any growth in button / object sizes in W10 or W11.  Maybe the display scaling is set incorrectly on your system?  I tend to run 4K monitors at either 125% or 150% scaling.

The UI is clearly made for touchscreens. The control panel is a mess of wormholes where you go into one section and end up in another one without knowing it. then later when you want to find the same setting you have no idea where it was. It's a mess. They should have kept the windows 7 GUI and started work on a separate GUI for touchscreen and give you the option of choosing. But Microsoft have never got the idea of letting a user make a choice, because it is all about their revenues and they think shoving things down your throat is how they keep you. don't get me wrong I am not advocating for the no mans land that linux is but something in the middle would be nice. I guess some people will tell me that this is what apple did do.

[themadhippy]

I am not advocating for the no mans land that linux

Oi wotcha talkin about?Us  linux users had a touch screen optimised desktop forced upon us long before win8 decided it was a good idea,luckily one little magic spell gets rid for us.

[Simon]

All I meant was the average consumer is better off on windows, Linux is for those who know what they are doing and has no standardization from an every day user point of view.

It's just a pity that windows lags due to Microsoft's attitude.

[themadhippy]

Linux is for those who know what they are doing

im all the evidence you need to disprove that theory

[Simon]

There are many programs that are not made for linux because the software manufacturers won't risk it. 3D cad being the biggest.

[SteveThackery]

Sorry, not sorry, Steve, but you do seem a bit ... overprotective of Micro$oft* at times (as if they needed your help!).

Actually I am not protective of Microsoft. My "button push" is irrationality, and it drives me nuts when I see fellow engineers indulging in irrational prejudice. I also feel very disappointed when I see infantile behaviour here. I want this place to be a sanctuary for grown-ups to have grown up conversations. What a shame some people - like @Randy222 - behave like infants as well as revelling in prejudice.

[SteveThackery]

There are many programs that are not made for linux because the software manufacturers won't risk it. 3D cad being the biggest.

Absolutely! The Linux fanboy attitude that all software should be free (to use) would scare off most of the big software houses. Thus we end up with FreeCAD as the only serious 3D CAD program. I mean, seriously, have you actually tried to use it?  It was more than enough to send me scuttling off to Siemens Solid Edge. If you want to know what a modern, professional software program looks like, check it out.
 
I would have been a Linux (sorry, Linsux) convert 15 years ago or more if the apps weren't so fucking awful. I'm quite a fan of Zorin, but alas it remains unused in my workshop because almost all open source software looks 30 years old and behaves like it was thrown together in a blender.

[SteveThackery]

The UI is clearly made for touchscreens. The control panel is a mess of wormholes where you go into one section and end up in another one without knowing it. then later when you want to find the same setting you have no idea where it was. It's a mess. They should have kept the windows 7 GUI and started work on a separate GUI for touchscreen and give you the option of choosing. But Microsoft have never got the idea of letting a user make a choice, because it is all about their revenues and they think shoving things down your throat is how they keep you. don't get me wrong I am not advocating for the no mans land that linux is but something in the middle would be nice. I guess some people will tell me that this is what apple did do.

I absolutely agree with this. I really do dislike the Windows 11 user interface (and the WinUI 3 UI paradigm for modern-day apps) on my dual-screen workstation.  And yet it works great on my Microsoft Surface convertible.

Microsoft absolutely should either offer a choice of UIs, or (probably more realistically) separate the OS into a Mobile Edition (with the current W11 UI) and a Workstation Edition (with the W7 UI). Apple (Sorry, @Randy222, "Crapple") did exactly that. So could Microsoft.

[Simon]

There are many programs that are not made for linux because the software manufacturers won't risk it. 3D cad being the biggest.

Absolutely! The Linux fanboy attitude that all software should be free (to use) would scare off most of the big software houses. Thus we end up with FreeCAD as the only serious 3D CAD program. I mean, seriously, have you actually tried to use it?  It was more than enough to send me scuttling off to Siemens Solid Edge. If you want to know what a modern, professional software program looks like, check it out.
 
I would have been a Linux (sorry, Linsux) convert 15 years ago or more if the apps weren't so fucking awful. I'm quite a fan of Zorin, but alas it remains unused in my workshop because almost all open source software looks 30 years old and behaves like it was thrown together in a blender.

Yes I have tried to use FreeCAD and given up. It's like someone made a shit copy of Creo as if that was not bad enough already, so I have a copy of solid edge community edition. Ironically Creo is now employing lots of solid edge programmers.....

The free bit is not the problem for software makers, it's the need to support everyone's half arsed idea of yet another distro a day. It's bad enough on windows where you need to check graphics card compatibility for 3D CAD, can you image the chaos it would be on Linux? and with most of the professional world quite happy with windows, programmers probably being the only ones that get genuine business benefit from Linux why would any company in their right mind make anything for Linux? Microsoft knows this so knows it can keep churning out whatever they feel like as they have no competition.

[Gyro]

OpenSCAD is a good parametric 3D CAD package under Linux [and Mac and Win].

[Monkeh]

The free bit is not the problem for software makers, it's the need to support everyone's half arsed idea of yet another distro a day.

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of many proponents of proprietary software. You do not need to support every distro in the universe. You do not need to support any distro. If your software is properly engineered and portable, it will work on all of them (within reason) and the packaging is left to the distro. That's what they do.