FranLab is getting evicted

[Ed.Kloonk]

Been wondering which thread to shove this into. This looks like a good spot...

[NiHaoMike]

I'm more concerned about the overcomplicated dual clutch transmissions in many newer cars breaking down, quite a few of them being infamous for problems early on. (Probably not as much of a concern in Europe where manual transmissions are still common.)

[james_s]

I'm more concerned about the overcomplicated dual clutch transmissions in many newer cars breaking down, quite a few of them being infamous for problems early on. (Probably not as much of a concern in Europe where manual transmissions are still common.)

Dual clutch boxes are not nearly as problematic as CVTs. I hate them both though, just give me a plain old fashioned manual gearbox, it's the best solution out of all of them. Simple, direct, versatile, reliable and efficient.

[james_s]

In any case I am not worried about an EV catching fire.  It's an insured event, and I'm much more likely to be involved in a serious car accident than I am to be involved in a random vehicle fire.

I don't know about you, but if my house burned down insurance would only cover a small fraction of my belongings. They might give me some money for the other stuff but so much of it is vintage/one-off stuff that is irreplaceable that money can't replace. If I had a newer more easily replaced car and it burned up on the side of the road insurance could replace it with a comparable car. If my car caught fire in the garage attached to my house and set the house on fire that would be a catastrophe.

[tautech]

I'm more concerned about the overcomplicated dual clutch transmissions in many newer cars breaking down, quite a few of them being infamous for problems early on. (Probably not as much of a concern in Europe where manual transmissions are still common.)

Multiple plate clutches have been used successfully in all manner of gear for 50+ years that I remember.
Trucks, tractors, race cars etc. Have modern designers no link to historical designs ?
Or do they just reinvent the wheel that already works just to break it ?

[NiHaoMike]

Dual clutch boxes are not nearly as problematic as CVTs.

Toyota CVTs almost never fail.

I don't know about you, but if my house burned down insurance would only cover a small fraction of my belongings. They might give me some money for the other stuff but so much of it is vintage/one-off stuff that is irreplaceable that money can't replace. If I had a newer more easily replaced car and it burned up on the side of the road insurance could replace it with a comparable car. If my car caught fire in the garage attached to my house and set the house on fire that would be a catastrophe.

Remember the time 20 years ago when Ford was infamous for catching fire at random? That should have been a good reason to install fire sprinklers in residential garages.

[nctnico]

In any case I am not worried about an EV catching fire.  It's an insured event,

You do realise that insurance companies are like casinos? The house always wins! In case of insurances: the lower the risk, the less money you have to pay. IOW: Insurance companies are not in the business of handing out free money to allow people to do stupid things. Also, if somebody's car causes damage to you or your property, you better hope the owner has the car insured. Otherwise you'll be out of luck... Your own insurance won't cover such an event.

[nctnico]

Remember the time 20 years ago when Ford was infamous for catching fire at random? That should have been a good reason to install fire sprinklers in residential garages.

You still need to take into account the massive difference between an ICE car catching fire and a BEV. A BEV will burn without oxygen. To put out an ICE car on fire, it is enough to simply shut the fire doors in order to cut off the oxygen supply. If you look carefully at enclosed / underground parking garages, you'll notice that these are divided into sections with steel sliding doors. A sprinkler system is another option and something you'll see both combined.

[SiliconWizard]

Oh it's insured!

Wonder what it all has to do with Fran though...

[tautech]

Oh it's insured!

Wonder what it all has to do with Fran though...

Fucking heaps more interesting. 

[tom66]

I'm more concerned about the overcomplicated dual clutch transmissions in many newer cars breaking down, quite a few of them being infamous for problems early on. (Probably not as much of a concern in Europe where manual transmissions are still common.)

Yeah, the one in my plug in hybrid worries me every time it takes just a fraction longer to shift into reverse.  One time I had to wait about 2 seconds for it to find it, but it hasn't done that for a while.  I don't know if that's normal or if I'm paranoid about an expensive repair if something in the very complex hybrid drive goes bad (the car has three clutches, one additional for the engine so that the motor only can drive the wheels.)  In comparison, an EV seems so much simpler, though a lot of the risk is transferred into the battery pack.

[tom66]

You do realise that insurance companies are like casinos? The house always wins! In case of insurances: the lower the risk, the less money you have to pay. IOW: Insurance companies are not in the business of handing out free money to allow people to do stupid things. Also, if somebody's car causes damage to you or your property, you better hope the owner has the car insured. Otherwise you'll be out of luck... Your own insurance won't cover such an event.

Insurance is only there to cover things that would be too expensive to reasonably cover yourself by pooling risk with others.  The average motor insurer in the UK actually loses a bit on every premium when claims and admin costs are considered (they make it up by investing your premium for that year.)   

Building insurance in the UK covers your property regardless of the cause.  I don't know about the situation in the EU but I was curious about whether the owner of the flat in the Grenfell Tower block would be liable for all the other properties destroyed, but the answer is no, it is each individual owner's responsibility to insure their flat's contents, and those without insurance are SOL.  This makes sense, because it could burden one insurer with millions of pounds of claims for a £50 a year policy, though I suppose reinsurance exists in some cases, it does not apply here.

And if EVs were at a tremendous risk of fire then their premiums would be high, but my PHEV (which has a well-used 6.8kWh Li-Ion battery, which is charged at 45kW during regen and discharged at 80kW under acceleration)  has lower premiums than any car I've ever owned.   I've seen one car like it destroyed by fire, and that appeared to be arson or an accident, as the interior was destroyed but the battery-engine areas were ok.   I am really, genuinely sure it's not a big risk.  Sure, the fire fighters are going to have to get better techniques for dealing with electric vehicle fires when they do happen, but removing combustible fuels, most oil and a very high temperature engine/exhaust system is almost certainly a benefit.  You have to worry about battery chemistry only then. 

My father had his old Mercedes W140 burn to the ground after parking it up.  The cause of the fire was never determined, but it oddly happened several hours after it was standing.  I wonder if it was a slow leak of oil onto the exhaust, perhaps as something cooled down some seal let go.   Vehicles are complex machines, and fire is always a risk with such a machine.  It is however a risk that is not in my mind when driving one.  It's a lot more likely something expensive will go wrong way before it actually catches fire.  Especially if it's German.

[EEVblog]

Trying to keep this on-topic:
Saw in a recent video that Fran is having problems with the neighbors who are smoking and using ozone generators to cover it up. She showed a rubber glove that had been eaten away by the ozone in her apartment. So now her health is at risk 

[SiliconWizard]

Ozone is toxic. If there's enough to be a concern, she should just have someone measure ozone levels officially in the building and take legal action.

[armandine2]

in the UK recently there has been media concern regarding a child death caused (allegedly) by an infection linked to mold in a damp room - my lay understanding of these ozone generators was that they could be used, in such rooms, with obvious precautions to remove animals and electronic equipment from the area.

[Nominal Animal]

in the UK recently there has been media concern regarding a child death caused (allegedly) by an infection linked to mold in a damp room - my lay understanding of these ozone generators was that they could be used, in such rooms, with obvious precautions to remove animals and electronic equipment from the area.

Yep, and are routinely used to e.g. remove mold and odors in cars.  If you include ion generation (which typically happens with ozone generation anyway), the ions also precipitate particles (dust, spores, pollutants etc.) from the air to surfaces.  Ozone generators are specifically to be used when no humans or animals are present.  None.  In typical apartment buildings, you'd need to fully block all ventilation, to use them safely.

This is one of the behavioural patterns you just have to deal with, when you live in an apartment building –– even if you owned yours (shareholder in the building, I mean).  Some people just don't care about others, and never even think twice about putting them in danger.  And most people are rather stupid, and don't even know when they are putting themselves, their pets, and neighbors in danger.  Try to educate them, and you become a target.  I've moved because of this myself.

[nctnico]

You do realise that insurance companies are like casinos? The house always wins! In case of insurances: the lower the risk, the less money you have to pay. IOW: Insurance companies are not in the business of handing out free money to allow people to do stupid things. Also, if somebody's car causes damage to you or your property, you better hope the owner has the car insured. Otherwise you'll be out of luck... Your own insurance won't cover such an event.

Insurance is only there to cover things that would be too expensive to reasonably cover yourself by pooling risk with others.  The average motor insurer in the UK actually loses a bit on every premium when claims and admin costs are considered (they make it up by investing your premium for that year.)

So they still make a profit which validates my point. The house always wins!

[PlainName]

The average motor insurer in the UK actually loses a bit on every premium when claims and admin costs are considered (they make it up by investing your premium for that year.)

So they still make a profit which validates my point. The house always wins!

I suspect they get a better return on investing a huge sum than individual people would investing a huge number of small sums, so in a way they are doing us a favour!

[MK14]

Trying to keep this on-topic:
Saw in a recent video that Fran is having problems with the neighbors who are smoking and using ozone generators to cover it up. She showed a rubber glove that had been eaten away by the ozone in her apartment. So now her health is at risk 

So much confirmation (NOT!), that her choice of where to live (location and the specific building she chose), still have one or more, apparently 'nasty' people, potentially causing her difficulties and even possibly damage to her health.

That's the thing about if she owned her own, house (or similar), property somewhere.  Nonsense like that (other people causing Ozone dangers), should be much, much less likely to occur (assuming the houses are separate/detached and don't have any shared usage spaces).

As far as I'm aware.  Living in factory (like) units, is strongly discouraged, and/or NOT allowed by laws and regulations, in the UK.
Some (small) shops, have rooms/flats (typically) above the ground floor shop unit.  Where either the shop owner(s) can live, or they can rent it out.

But this (apparent) concept, of mixed use factory (and living in the factory unit), doesn't seem to be something I've heard about in the UK.

But in the UK, you can get houses/homes, with connected/external workshops/studio units, which is at least, partly similar.

Usually, if people are living in part of a factory unit, it perhaps means some kind of illegal activities, such as people smuggling, is going on.

The UK's health and safety laws and stuff, makes it difficult, to fulfill all the regulations and laws, if it was used as a living space, as well.  Also the planning application, would be difficult to get approval for.

E.g. If a perfectly legal UK house/home household, decided to let people live in their (unmodified) garage and/or caravan in the garden.  That could cause big trouble with the authorities.
Even if you own a strip of land, you CAN'T legally live there (even in a caravan), without the correct planning application approvals.

[nctnico]

Ozone is toxic. If there's enough to be a concern, she should just have someone measure ozone levels officially in the building and take legal action.

Or buy an ozone meter first. Maybe it is useful to determine where the ozone is entering the apartment by measuring changes in concentration. A can of PU foam to fill / seal cracks between the apartments costs little and likely solves the issue. It would make an interesting video as well.

Early laser printers also produced quite a bit of ozone. At one of the companies I worked as an intern the offices where on the first floor. That entire floor was drenched in ozone. Fortunately I spend my days in the repair department at the ground floor.

[Bud]

You guys not concerned about ozonized health of the poor smoker ? 

[Stray Electron]

You guys not concerned about ozonized health of the poor smoker ? 

   If we were, what would expect us to do about it?

   In fact, millions of people are exposed to ozone and tobacco smoke everyday and there's very little that we can do about those either.

[james_s]

You guys not concerned about ozonized health of the poor smoker ? 

I'm not at all, not if they're the ones both smoking and using ozone generators, both of which are a personal choice.

Ozone is great stuff for disinfecting and removing odors but you don't want to use it while anyone is in the space.

[EEVblog]

So much confirmation (NOT!), that her choice of where to live (location and the specific building she chose), still have one or more, apparently 'nasty' people, potentially causing her difficulties and even possibly damage to her health.
That's the thing about if she owned her own, house (or similar), property somewhere.  Nonsense like that (other people causing Ozone dangers), should be much, much less likely to occur (assuming the houses are separate/detached and don't have any shared usage spaces).
As far as I'm aware.  Living in factory (like) units, is strongly discouraged, and/or NOT allowed by laws and regulations, in the UK.
Some (small) shops, have rooms/flats (typically) above the ground floor shop unit.  Where either the shop owner(s) can live, or they can rent it out.
But this (apparent) concept, of mixed use factory (and living in the factory unit), doesn't seem to be something I've heard about in the UK.

Her new FranLab 3.0 is not a factory or mixed use space as the Franlab 2.0 lab that was demolished around here was, it's a regular apartment building.
There are no more affordable mixed-use spaces available in Philly, they are all being lost to gentrification.

[Monkeh]

I'm more concerned about the overcomplicated dual clutch transmissions in many newer cars breaking down, quite a few of them being infamous for problems early on. (Probably not as much of a concern in Europe where manual transmissions are still common.)

Multiple plate clutches have been used successfully in all manner of gear for 50+ years that I remember.
Trucks, tractors, race cars etc. Have modern designers no link to historical designs ?
Or do they just reinvent the wheel that already works just to break it ?

DCTs are not multiple clutch plates, they are multiple independent clutches. The potential issue is the controls, rather than the clutches themselves.