Keysight Scope Giveaway

[Macbeth]

Just a thought regarding the sales tax component of the prize which was mentioned earlier.

In NZ you could register yourself for our GST, pay the tax, and then claim that tax back later.
Perhaps this is also possible in other countries?

Yes it is in the UK. You can also register for VAT "after the event" providing you keep receipts etc, and then when selling the item on pay the HMRC.

Oh, when you get a VAT inspection they do focus on the biggest ticket items you have bought. So that invoice is crucial.

Now it has to be said this kind of scope is really not a consumer item at all - which goes in your favour. You can register as self employed or limited company, and only a perverse VAT inspector would try and claim it is for personal use (unlike an iPhone for example).

But it also makes one wonder why Keysight are dishing them out to all and sundry as if they are mere hobbyist toys to be won?

[nctnico]

In NZ you could register yourself for our GST, pay the tax, and then claim that tax back later.
Perhaps this is also possible in other countries?

In the NL there is a requirement to work to work close to fulltime in your own company in order to be eligible for such tax returns (or basically make the equipment company property instead of your private belongings). I'm quite sure other countries have similar requirements. All in all Keysight would do well by sending the equipment to a price winner through a local distributor to avoid import taxes for the price winner. In case of the EU this distributor could be in a different country (note the EU is not Europe!).

[Macbeth]

All this VAT stuff would only apply if the scope is despatched outside the EU. If it's from, say, Farnell then it wouldn't apply. Indeed I imagine the invoice you get with a prize like this would show zero vat as it didn't cost anything.

I think the real problem are countries that treat prizes as income (like the USA it appears). I've never understood the USA tax system, especially the double taxation of incomes earned abroad for example. For such a libertarian-lite capitalist system they sure do love those taxes.

[bitseeker]

If you've won and are concerned about it, talk to us. Thanks and good luck!

I haven't won, yet, but am glad to see all that Keysight is doing especially with regard to helping sort out the legal issues. The contest had a bumpy start, but kudos to Daniel for keeping on top of things. Hopefully, after ironing out the details on this one will result in more such promotional activities in the future.

[PeterEE]

I2C and SPI decoding adds another $1100 to the price. I'm not sure MSO would be worth it if nothing is included.

What about 4 channels or 200Mhz vs. 100Mhz? If you had to choose between more channels or higher bandwidth?

[hendorog]

I2C and SPI decoding adds another $1100 to the price. I'm not sure MSO would be worth it if nothing is included.

What about 4 channels or 200Mhz vs. 100Mhz? If you had to choose between more channels or higher bandwidth?

Ask for a Keysight refurbished one and get both

[Brumby]

PSA:

If you've won, congrats!  Please respond to our e-mails  ; talking to us won't force you to be stuck with taxes, etc. If you've won and are concerned about it, talk to us. Thanks and good luck!

I wouldn't have this problem - if only Australia was eligible.


.... but I do feel for the people that do.

[AdamHi]

Our legal team has looked pretty exhaustively into doing whatever we can to make sure we're both compliant AND helpful. 

Daniel has been helpful. But now that it seems that Keysight is allowing winners to pick lower priced (ie, lower taxed) models, I really wish I could get through the block against those of us who work for Government agencies. My workplace has nothing to do with electronic test equipment, and we make no purchase decisions about any. US Federal ethics laws (yes, i paid attention during the mandatory training) would allow me to participate and even win, since I would have the same chance as any other citizen of the US (or any other country). My job gives me no advantage over anybody else. I understand Keysight's desire to avoid the appearance of bribery or influencing, but it is unnecessary.

--adam

[bitseeker]

If you had to choose between more channels or higher bandwidth?

Unless I really had a need for higher bandwidth, I'd choose more channels.

[Bud]

That can be hard to decide but I think I would go with a higher bandwidth, as I tend to do more of RF work. If you do more of low speed digital then go with more channels.

[AndyC_772]

Keysight just sent me an email offering to let me choose a lower priced scope from the 3000T series.

It does feel like a shame to leave so much of the prize value effectively unclaimed. Surely there must be someone who would buy the 1GHz model off you for the cost of (taxes on 1GHz) + (brand new lower cost scope)?

[ericloewe]

All this VAT stuff would only apply if the scope is despatched outside the EU. If it's from, say, Farnell then it wouldn't apply. Indeed I imagine the invoice you get with a prize like this would show zero vat as it didn't cost anything.

I think the real problem are countries that treat prizes as income (like the USA it appears). I've never understood the USA tax system, especially the double taxation of incomes earned abroad for example. For such a libertarian-lite capitalist system they sure do love those taxes.

Then there are those that specifically tax prizes as an entirely separate thing.

It can get really ridiculous. Think 20% off a lottery prize if it's cash and a whopping 45% if it's a "promotional" prize other than cash. And if you're a company, you get the pleasure of having the prize classified as revenue (full value, since the 45% is owed by the promoter of the contest!) and taxed accordingly at a pleasant (in comparison) 21%.

[Towger]

It can get really ridiculous. Think 20% off a lottery prize if it's cash and a whopping 45% if it's a "promotional" prize other than cash. And if you're a company, you get the pleasure of having the prize classified as revenue (full value, since the 45% is owed by the promoter of the contest!) and taxed accordingly at a pleasant (in comparison) 21%.

You could always move to another country

From the Irish Tax Man: http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/cat/leaflets/cat1.html

Are there any exemptions from Gift Tax?

• lottery and similar winnings

[Mafketel]

I was curious how the US is taxing gifts and I cannot find anything except that keysight might have to pay gift tax on the value of the scope above $14 000.- and only if they gave away more then $5million in their existence(treating the same as a natural person)

If you receive a gift you do not have to pay tax in the US, at least not federal.

OK I guess it is not a gift but .... a sweepstakes ..... the rules..... It is just regarded as income tax federally,

so personal deduction $4000 standard deduction $6300
amount of tax above that 10% to 39.6%, if you have the pay 39.6% you can afford that scope
So if you make more then $9 275.- + $10 300.- you pay 15% tax
over $37 651.- + $10 300.-     25% tax

At that income the Promotional price $14,525.00 at Newark makes $3 631.25 of tax and that is some serious money.

If you make more then a grand a year the scope will get more expensive(28%), but you should be able to afford it.

State tax from 0% to 10% Which can considerable, most states do have a scale the more you make the more you pay, CA does not tax sweepstakes which is good cause CA state tax is 13.3% If you make more then a million.

If the sweepstakes prize is worth more than $5,000, the sponsor must withhold 25 percent of the prize value for federal taxes and may have to withhold state taxes as well.
Ouch, other nice detail if,
The sweepstakes sponsor could choose to pay the federal tax withholding, but if it does, the sponsor’s withholding rate is one-third of the prize’s fair market value.
Now I do not get this do they pay 1/3 of $14.5K to the government or do they pay income tax over 1/3 of $14.5K ?

source: http://finance.zacks.com/much-state-federal-tax-owed-sweepstakes-winnings-6171.html

p.s. If you don't claim the prize for yourself but instead assign the prize to charity, you are exempt of taxes. However you don’t get a charitable donation deduction. So that is another option if you have a makerspace or something else close by.

[shplatt]

I got a response back from Keysight.  Turns out the scope does not include the software bundle as alluded to by Dave.  Hrm... that makes it much less useful to me.  I was actually hoping to keep the scope and not go through the hassle of selling it - thus the consideration of a lesser scope.  Anyway, I emailed back, asking if they'd be willing to include the app bundle and LAN module on a lesser scope.  The total is much less than $16k, so seems reasonable...?

[ataradov]

as alluded to by Dave

I believe Dave was talking about his two units, not the mass giveaway ones.

[Fred27]

I'm hoping that soon somebody is picked that just says "thanks" rather than moaning about how difficult winning had been for them.

Nobody wants to pay loads of tax and it sounds like Keysight are trying to be as helpful as they can, but if you don't want to win then don't enter.

This goes for the EEVBlog giveaway too. Even with Dave doing his best with the dumpster find 'scopes, the winner may end up having to pay some costs. I believe in the UK for instance that you're expected to pay VAT on the fair market value of something, not necessarily what you paid for it.

[hendorog]

I'm hoping that soon somebody is picked that just says "thanks" rather than moaning about how difficult winning had been for them.

Nobody wants to pay loads of tax and it sounds like Keysight are trying to be as helpful as they can, but if you don't want to win then don't enter.

This goes for the EEVBlog giveaway too. Even with Dave doing his best with the dumpster find 'scopes, the winner may end up having to pay some costs. I believe in the UK for instance that you're expected to pay VAT on the fair market value of something, not necessarily what you paid for it.

I don't think anyone is being ungrateful, and everyone here is doing their best to help out.
It is just an unfortunate fact that the US winners have to work with what appears to be a comparatively harsh tax system.
The tax amounts which have been mentioned in the US are some pretty serious $$$.

Its not like you can budget and plan for winning a prize...!!

I think Keysight might consider used scopes for their next promo - that would let them drop the fair market value significantly and reduce the liability.

[rx8pilot]

If I win....can you just take it out of the box, scratch the side of it and call it damaged/used? 

Either way, I have the tax thing all worked out if I win. I promise I will jump up and down!

[Fred27]

Its not like you can budget and plan for winning a prize...!!

Yes - you can. If your country will charge you 25% (for whatever reason) then don't enter a competition for a $16k scope unless you're prepared to cover that $4k. If you can reduce it then great, but be prepared for it.

[sangvikh]

If I win....can you just take it out of the box, scratch the side of it and call it damaged/used? 

Either way, I have the tax thing all worked out if I win. I promise I will jump up and down!

Not a bad idea...
Is it working at all? Maybe there is some crusty soldering at the mains plug?

[rx8pilot]

Its not like you can budget and plan for winning a prize...!!

Yes - you can. If your country will charge you 25% (for whatever reason) then don't enter a competition for a $16k scope unless you're prepared to cover that $4k. If you can reduce it then great, but be prepared for it.

+1

I am fully configured to win the 6000x

Vote for my video submission! C. Acosta

@Daniel - can I upload another video for the 6000x contest? Either as a separate entry or to replace the one already submitted?

[hendorog]

Its not like you can budget and plan for winning a prize...!!

Yes - you can. If your country will charge you 25% (for whatever reason) then don't enter a competition for a $16k scope unless you're prepared to cover that $4k. If you can reduce it then great, but be prepared for it.

Of course - assuming you are aware of the 25% in the first place. I was talking about a more formal level of budgeting.

[hendorog]

Any thoughts on MSO vs. DSO?  I do tend to work with Arduino and similar stuff.

MSO upgrade should be free - they have a promo on:
http://www.keysight.com/main/editorial.jspx?cc=US&lc=eng&ckey=2676527&nid=-32538.1150268.00&id=2676527&cmpid=zzfindsupercharge_mso

[broz]

Welp... didn't think this would be my "first post", but I got selected yesterday.  Much like Peter, I've been a little torn on what to do.  First, I had to convince myself this was all legit... especially since the email they sent asked for a completed W-9!  That, and that tiny, little part about paying taxes on a $16k scope...  So, I've been reading through this thread today to get some more insight and lo and behold, Peter offers up a little nugget about picking a cheaper scope.  Dang, this might just be doable.  Don't have much need for 1Ghz, but 200 or 350 MHz might be easier to swallow - not to mention higher SAF.

Just wondering... Dave had alluded to all the software options being enabled.  Is this true?  If so, does this get added to the value?

Jared

Congrats on the win, I definitely got a little excited when Daniel announced that the winner was Jared....

Until he announced the last initial  .

But again, congrats on the win, and to anyone else who has won!