DON'T: Cheese sauce with Mozzerela.

[paulca]

Just don't.  That is all.

Okay, so I tried it.  Maybe put too much in.  No matter how much milk I added and no matter how much I heating and "folded it together" it still ended up a large blob of .... basically kids slime.

It "was" moderately tastey, but I didn't go back for seconds.

[jpanhalt]

That's why creditcard snot* is not used to lubricate ball bearings.

Try parmesan, cotija, or virtually any other cheese.

*https://www.amazon.com/Removable-Marketing-Application-Requiring-Removable/dp/B007GA3S74

[coppercone2]

Maybe try cream instead of milk


I think there is some recpies I saw for welsh rarebit that made a mozzerella sauce some where

[rhodges]

I think Jack cheese is the only one that makes a good sauce without help. But if you use a small amount of sodium citrate, you can use other cheese as a sauce. Just mix citric acid and baking soda in the correct proportions (in water) to get sodium citrate.

[tszaboo]

Also not from Camembert. 

[T3sl4co1l]

Yeah, mozz is a cooking not a melting cheese.  It's already kinda melted and stretched, so there's a much bigger hurdle to get it to loosen up.

Milk helps, but starch is critical; you can't have a stable cheese sauce without milk and starch -- or citrate (and related bits, hexametaphosphate etc.) to make the proteins unlink and get a nacho or process-cheese texture.

Avoid excess heat, too; heat almost inevitably "breaks" sauces.  It's tricky, because you need to simmer but you need to stay below boiling.  Boiling is easy, it's self regulating, but you need juuust enough heat otherwise, and perhaps enough stirring to encourage evaporation (cooling), without getting away from it too long and it starts bubbling.

Cheese you can usually get away with overheating as long as it stirs in and starches block it from glopping together, but it might still end up grainy or something.  Or you might need the heat to get it to melt, not entirely sure, but it can be hard to melt some cheeses -- hard ones like coarsely shredded parmesan, or cooking ones like mozzarella.

Tim

[paulca]

For me a cheese sauce is a white sauce I added some cheese too.  Almost always served with seared chicken strips, sweetcorn, broccoli or peas... on a bed of pasta.

Instead of the 2nds going to waste I added another 1/4 pint of milk to the left overs, brought it up to the boil for a few seconds to repasturize and added a bunch of mature chedar.

Worth doing it was grand.

In the past I have found, if you are after "cheese zest" taste, just drop a table spoon of cheese into a frying pan and turn it into hard brown gloop.  Then put that into the normal cheese sauce.  You can fish the "bits" out before serviing.

[Psi]

I think Jack cheese is the only one that makes a good sauce without help. But if you use a small amount of sodium citrate, you can use other cheese as a sauce. Just mix citric acid and baking soda in the correct proportions (in water) to get sodium citrate.

yep,
Here's a video on it

[paulca]

I prefer Nile's



The only cheese I buy is Cheddar, a few Edam like mild cheeses and mozz usually for adding to frozen pizza.  I do have a tub of "unnamed" Italian Hard cheese for garnish.

I do occasionally purchse the slices of orange "processed cheese", just because I still love opening each slice and eating it from when I was a child.

[TimNJ]

Yeah, mozz is a cooking not a melting cheese.  It's already kinda melted and stretched, so there's a much bigger hurdle to get it to loosen up.

Milk helps, but starch is critical; you can't have a stable cheese sauce without milk and starch -- or citrate (and related bits, hexametaphosphate etc.) to make the proteins unlink and get a nacho or process-cheese texture.

Avoid excess heat, too; heat almost inevitably "breaks" sauces.  It's tricky, because you need to simmer but you need to stay below boiling.  Boiling is easy, it's self regulating, but you need juuust enough heat otherwise, and perhaps enough stirring to encourage evaporation (cooling), without getting away from it too long and it starts bubbling.

Cheese you can usually get away with overheating as long as it stirs in and starches block it from glopping together, but it might still end up grainy or something.  Or you might need the heat to get it to melt, not entirely sure, but it can be hard to melt some cheeses -- hard ones like coarsely shredded parmesan, or cooking ones like mozzarella.

Tim

What are you from Wisconsin or something?

[tooki]

Just don't.  That is all.

Okay, so I tried it.  Maybe put too much in.  No matter how much milk I added and no matter how much I heating and "folded it together" it still ended up a large blob of .... basically kids slime.

It "was" moderately tastey, but I didn't go back for seconds.

When you realize that mozzarella is made by kneading the curds in hot liquid to make them stringy, it becomes obvious why it resists dissolving into hot liquid.

[coppercone2]

what if you blend it?

[IanB]

what if you blend it?

How about if you slice it with sliced ripe tomato, drizzle it with olive oil, season with salt and pepper, and eat it as a salad?

Or how about if you grate it and put it on pizza?

This thread is hilarious.

[T3sl4co1l]

what if you blend it?

Will It Blend?

What are you from Wisconsin or something?

Big if true!

Tim

[paulca]

what if you blend it?

How about if you slice it with sliced ripe tomato, drizzle it with olive oil, season with salt and pepper, and eat it as a salad?

I'm with Michael on this.  Tomatoes are disgusting berries.

[TimNJ]

what if you blend it?

How about if you slice it with sliced ripe tomato, drizzle it with olive oil, season with salt and pepper, and eat it as a salad?

I'm with Michael on this.  Tomatoes are disgusting berries.

Store bought tomatoes are generally an abomination. Sounds like your mind is set, but if you can get your hands on a Cherokee Purple or Mortgage Lifter, I *think* you'd change your mind.

[ohren]

I saw this thread literally minutes after throwing a lasagna topped with a mozzarella white sauce into the oven and sitting down to rest, and I didn't even know there was a cooking section here 😅

I tried it for the first time ever because it was just a lasagna made of leftovers and I didn't have any cheese with actual taste at home, but a freezer full of mozzarella (rubber balls) that are used occasionally as pizza topping. It's been in the oven for 15 minutes now, and I'm sorry to disappoint but it worked just fine to make the sauce (photo proof provided). It didn't taste much of anything but that was easily alleviated with nutmeg.

Yes, it's a cake form. Nothing else was available.

[coppercone2]

that looks like a prop from alien

I think it might be considered good if there was 85% less char on it

[Analog Kid]

Try parmesan, cotija, or virtually any other cheese.

Stop right there. That's right, at that cheese: cotija.

You have instantly reminded me of one of my all-time favorite places to eat, one which may be known to others who have any familiarity with the part of Silicon Valley located in south Palo Alto*, on Middlefield Road:

La Costena. World's greatest taqueria. With cotija as one of their many burrito options.

* Apparently they've moved down south to Mountain View.

[ohren]

that looks like a prop from alien

I think it might be considered good if there was 85% less char on it

It's not that difficult to spot the difference between charring and caramelization I think. Then again some people throw away the top half of their leeks, and some put their garlic in the trash can after a couple weeks 😉

The amount of pickiness varies I suppose. This is fine to eat.

[coppercone2]

I think that is way too  dark. I think you wanna carefully do that with a torch, within moderation, or extreme care with the broiler (move it around frequently)

I think its unappetizing when its a giant blob

I thought of a aluminum sheet with holes in it, to get a checkerboard surface, but I think it should be way less black anyway. Alot of people won't eat that for health reasons when it looks like that

this is what it should look like, and its on the really heavy side IMO




this one looks better
https://www.greencook-intl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/header-caramelization.jpg


this is what I think is good (light)




It tastes good when its lightly browned and it won't give you a stomach ache. Sometimes its very hard to avoid dark spots, but its kind of like brazing, it means your going too heavy with the heater. Patience, it reminds me of doing a silver on heavy copper braze, where you wanna get it just the dullest of dull reds so the silver flows without starting some crazy over temperature reactions.

[ohren]

I tried looking up "broiler" but couldn't pin down exactly what tool you're referring to. I don't know about you, but I don't usually go over a lasagna with a blow torch just to make it look pretty 😄 Even less so a leftover lasagna that I'll be eating on my own.

it should be way less black anyway. Alot of people won't eat that for health reasons when it looks like that

My point was that it isn't black. It's not charcoal you're looking at there, but a deep brown.

It's not that I prefer it to look like that, but that this just happens when you put lasagna in an oven unless you're meticulously monitoring the temperature/radiation and setting the timer just right so that you catch it before it starts forming bubbles (I usually put an aluminum sheet on top when it's had enough color). That said, I've seen lasagna from brick oven restaurants a lot more "severely burned" — and I'm not even selling this one! Though the problem is compounded when using actual lasagna sheets unless you shatter the top layer (I used cooked spaghetti in this one).

Regarding those pictures they look like crème brûlée, which is a bit of a stretch comparison since I'm not going to be sprinkling sugar on top of a lasagna.

Maybe I'm wrong about the caramelization as the only source of the brown color — my main point was that it was brown, not black Caramelization of the lactose is the one thing I know will give that color, but I could be proven wrong, and that it's actually the flour going brown. I just looked it up: the other reasonable candidate would then be "Maillard browning".

Seems like a bit of a stretch to view that 0.2 mm layer as particularly unhealthy though if this same process happens whenever you're baking an ordinary loaf of bread 🤷‍♂️

I fully admit to being lazy and imprecise when cooking lasagna now after having done it a hundred times 😩

[coppercone2]

the problem with broilers is that they have really crappy uniformity. you need to move that stuff around, its way harder then BBQ IMO

[IanB]

I tried looking up "broiler" but couldn't pin down exactly what tool you're referring to.

It's a bit complicated, because it depends which country you are living in. There are different words in different places.

In America, a broiler is a part of an oven that provides direct radiant heat from above the food. In Britain and other parts of the world, this is called a grill. A restaurant version of this is called a salamander.

In America, a grill typically provides heat and flames to cook food from underneath, often using charcoal. In Britain and other parts of the world this is called a barbeque.

Therefore, if you want to brown the top of a dish at the end of cooking, then in America you use a broiler, and in other parts of the world you use a grill.

[ohren]

Thanks for the rundown. I've always had trouble with those. It becomes especially problematic on the internet, and on mobile
I can't even see the little flags.

So it was the dish that was supposed to move around. Got it. Why not, I could try that next time.

I usually want it to brown in the beginning though, to preserve moisture. Haven't thought about that much. Any cooking theories to the contrary?