It's 2020. SF to LA for $25 on Elon Musk's Hyperloop - Are you buying it?

[DougSpindler]

Look I'm not expert on this.  But I did take and pass a physics class.
As piece the story together.  Elon had the same "brilliant" idea folks had well over 100 years ago for some from on pneumatic tube for transportation of people.  A two station people carrying pneumatic tube was built and tested in New York.  It worked, but must not have worked that well it never went into commercial operation.

Elon around 2012 tells some guy that this is the future of mass-transportation and makes the technology open source.  Elon, in my opinion, must have been high because a lot of what he was telling the guy was more science fiction than reality.
Then between 2012-2017 multiple companies ignored the physics thinking they could build Elon's science fiction Hyperloop.
2017-2018 Elon thinking the first Hyperloop should have been built by now says he's going to build his own.  Elon gets approval of the White House to build one on the East Coast.
2019 Elon submits some of the paperwork required to build his Loop.

Elon is being Just like Tesla.  He's makes these big outrageous claims and doesn't do much of what he said he was going to do.

Feel free to correct me.  I've tried to provide the "information and news" I've been hearing and read.  In this time of fake new, BS news and fake science it's hard to know what's true in the news and when Elon has smoked too much dope.

[wraper]

Look I'm not expert on this.  But I did take and pass a physics class.
As piece the story together.  Elon had the same "brilliant" idea folks had well over 100 years ago for some from on pneumatic tube for transportation of people.  A two station people carrying pneumatic tube was built and tested in New York.  It worked, but must not have worked that well it never went into commercial operation.

It's not a pneumatic tube  . Passing the class means that you learned how to pass the class, not actually learned anything useful I guess.

[fourfathom]

Elon had the same "brilliant" idea folks had well over 100 years ago for some from on pneumatic tube for transportation of people.  A two station people carrying pneumatic tube was built and tested in New York.  It worked, but must not have worked that well it never went into commercial operation.

Could there possibly have been any advances in technology since well over 100 years ago?

I don't know enough about the Hyperloop, or Musk's participation in it, to either defend it or criticize it -- but your comment above is pretty pathetic.

[wraper]

Feel free to correct me.  I've tried to provide the "information and news" I've been hearing and read.  In this time of fake new, BS news and fake science it's hard to know what's true in the news and when Elon has smoked too much dope.

How about reading further than title and looking at sources they base their article? Modern news titles are stupid clickbait in 95% of cases. As I already wrote about one of those articles you linked. Elon posted a tweet: "I guess a proof of concept is needed". They wrote a page long article filled with speculations and nonsense  . If you read further and not only the title, you'd notice that article is a baseless speculation about tweet with zero information.

[DougSpindler]

Look I'm not expert on this.  But I did take and pass a physics class.
As piece the story together.  Elon had the same "brilliant" idea folks had well over 100 years ago for some from on pneumatic tube for transportation of people.  A two station people carrying pneumatic tube was built and tested in New York.  It worked, but must not have worked that well it never went into commercial operation.

It's not a pneumatic tube  . Passing the class means that you learned how to pass the class, not actually learned anything useful I guess.

Help me out here, why do you say this is NOT a pneumatic system?

[wraper]

Help me out here, why do you say this is NOT a pneumatic system?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumatics

Pneumatics is a branch of engineering that makes use of gas or pressurized air.

Hypeloop is something opposite.

[DougSpindler]

Feel free to correct me.  I've tried to provide the "information and news" I've been hearing and read.  In this time of fake new, BS news and fake science it's hard to know what's true in the news and when Elon has smoked too much dope.

How about reading further than title and looking at sources they base their article? Modern news titles are stupid clickbait in 95% of cases. As I already wrote about one of those articles you linked. Elon posted a tweet: "I guess a proof of concept is needed". They wrote a page long article filled with speculations and nonsense  . If you read further and not only the title, you'd notice that article is a baseless speculation about tweet with zero information.

I believe you are mistaken.  There is a link to a 500 page draft document.  Why would they produce a 500 page document?

[wraper]

Feel free to correct me.  I've tried to provide the "information and news" I've been hearing and read.  In this time of fake new, BS news and fake science it's hard to know what's true in the news and when Elon has smoked too much dope.

How about reading further than title and looking at sources they base their article? Modern news titles are stupid clickbait in 95% of cases. As I already wrote about one of those articles you linked. Elon posted a tweet: "I guess a proof of concept is needed". They wrote a page long article filled with speculations and nonsense  . If you read further and not only the title, you'd notice that article is a baseless speculation about tweet with zero information.

I believe you are mistaken.  There is a link to a 500 page draft document.  Why would they produce a 500 page document?

There is a link to a 500 page document which has nothing to do with hyperloop  .
EDIT: and BTW it's a different article with that link. I was talking about article taking about tweet and no documents. Not that article with a link is any better.

[DougSpindler]

Help me out here, why do you say this is NOT a pneumatic system?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumatics

Pneumatics is a branch of engineering that makes use of gas or pressurized air.

Hypeloop is something opposite.

Since you quote Wikipedia as fact, I will also. 
Pneumatic tubes (or capsule pipelines; also known as pneumatic tube transport or PTT) are systems that propel cylindrical containers through networks of tubes by compressed air
or by partial vacuum.

Isn't Hyperloop using a low pressure or partial vacuum?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumatic_tube

Not bad for just having a public education.

[wraper]

Since you quote Wikipedia as fact, I will also.
Pneumatic tubes (or capsule pipelines; also known as pneumatic tube transport or PTT) are systems that propel cylindrical containers through networks of tubes by compressed air
or by partial vacuum.

Isn't Hyperloop using a low pressure or partial vacuum?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumatic_tube

Not bad for just having a public education.

Do you really think that anything where is any gas is pneumatics? How about your room? It has air inside it. Or how about usual subway, there is a gas in the tubes !!!
Hyperloop does not use any gas for propulsion. It removes gas from the tube so it does not cause atmospheric friction. Propulsion is made by other means, for example Maglev.
Yeah, apparently US public education sucks. ...Sucks...gas??? education  must be pneumatics too!

[DougSpindler]

Musk does not own nor operate nor have any vested interest in any Hyperloop company!
I actually do not rule out that the whole thing on his part is a gigantic troll.

Jul 22, 2019
Elon Musk promises new Hyperloop tunnel after speed record broken.

Why do you say Elon does not own or have any vested interest is any Hyperloop company?
I keep finding articles that indicates he does.

Here's another one.
https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/22/20703423/tum-hyperloop-record-463-kmph-spacex-elon-musk-competition

And SpaceX to build massive, new Hyperloop tunnel for 2020 competition, says Elon Musk.
https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-elon-musk-new-hyperloop-test-track-2020/


Not trying to promote fake news or conspiracy theories.  (The web and this forum have enough people do that already.)
But I have cited a couple of different credible sources which sure makes it appear Elon in in the Hyperloop business. 
I would like to ask why you think he's not?

Thanks

[wraper]

Here's another one.
https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/22/20703423/tum-hyperloop-record-463-kmph-spacex-elon-musk-competition

And SpaceX to build massive, new Hyperloop tunnel for 2020 competition, says Elon Musk.
https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-elon-musk-new-hyperloop-test-track-2020/

Small diameter tunnel for students to compete.

[DougSpindler]

Here's another one.
https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/22/20703423/tum-hyperloop-record-463-kmph-spacex-elon-musk-competition

And SpaceX to build massive, new Hyperloop tunnel for 2020 competition, says Elon Musk.
https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-elon-musk-new-hyperloop-test-track-2020/

Small diameter tunnel for students to compete.

You know you are kind of being a dick with the face plants.  You could have been a bit more nicer instead of implying with the face-spats I some dumb fuck.

It was my understanding Hyperloop was a pneumatic tube type system.  That's because I was believing what I was reading and being told in news reports.  Hyperloop is NOT a pneumatic system at all.  (You could have been polite and pointed the out to me instead of being condescending.)  I know realize Hyperloop is a vactrain and not pneumatic as I was lead to believe.

Lighten up my friend.  I'm in this forum to learn.  No need to treat me like shit.

Thank you

[wraper]

It was my understanding Hyperloop was a pneumatic tube type system.  That's because I was believing what I was reading and being told in news reports.  Hyperloop is NOT a pneumatic system at all.  (You could have been polite and pointed the out to me instead of being condescending.)  I know realize Hyperloop is a vactrain and not pneumatic as I was lead to believe.

Lighten up my friend.  I'm in this forum to learn.  No need to treat me like shit.

Thank you

I often lose my cool since my fuse is short and I'm sorry for that. But you should also understand that giving arguments to you is somewhat similar to throwing them against concrete wall.

[DougSpindler]

It was my understanding Hyperloop was a pneumatic tube type system.  That's because I was believing what I was reading and being told in news reports.  Hyperloop is NOT a pneumatic system at all.  (You could have been polite and pointed the out to me instead of being condescending.)  I know realize Hyperloop is a vactrain and not pneumatic as I was lead to believe.

Lighten up my friend.  I'm in this forum to learn.  No need to treat me like shit.

Thank you

I often lose my cool since my fuse is short and I'm sorry for that. But you should also understand that giving arguments to you is somewhat similar to throwing them against concrete wall.

Why do you say that?
When provided with credible evidence, my mind can be changed.  When I'm wrong I will admit it.

There are so many people out there pedaling fake news, conspiracies, bullshit it's hard to know who the "good/honest" people are.  I thought and still think you are one of the "good" ones. 

While I didn't appreciate the face-spats, I do appreciate you questioning my posts.  I learned a few things - Thank you.

[wraper]

Why do you say that?

Well, I actually was quite surprised that you admitted you were wrong about pneumatics. Because I had a feeling that my arguments simply bounce without you bothering to explore what I said. I actually enjoy civilized conversation much more. But it just itches and is so easy to click on facepalm  LOL.

[DougSpindler]

Why do you say that?

Well, I actually was quite surprised that you admitted you were wrong about pneumatics. Because I had a feeling that my arguments simply bounce without you bothering to explore what I said. I actually enjoy civilized conversation much more. But it just itches and is so easy to click on facepalm  LOL.

Hey if I'm wrong I will admit I'm wrong.  I didn't really pay much attention to Elon.  While I will admin what he's been able to accomplish is amazing.  But for a guy who has a degree in physics you sure have to wonder if some of the things he's saying are due to drugs and are really stupid.

As previously posted, I wasn't paying that much attention to what Elon was proposing and (stupid me) trusted news people to give accurate news reports.  Turns out I was duped.  You made me realize that. - Thanks again.  Feel free to kindly correct me at any time.  If after three attempts face-splat me.


 

[EEVblog]

It appears Elon and friends are doing some work.  This is from 2019.  They published a  505 page environmental assessment.
https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musks-boring-company-takes-small-step-toward-reality/

Nope. Learn the difference between The Loop and The Hyperloop. That is about The Loop, the car transport version.
Again, please provide evidence that the Boring Company has done any actual real engineering work on The Hyperloop.

[DougSpindler]

It appears Elon and friends are doing some work.  This is from 2019.  They published a  505 page environmental assessment.
https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musks-boring-company-takes-small-step-toward-reality/

Nope. Learn the difference between The Loop and The Hyperloop. That is about The Loop, the car transport version.
Again, please provide evidence that the Boring Company has done any actual real engineering work on The Hyperloop.

I get it.  Sorry for the confusion.  I'm realizing there is a lot of misinformation out there on Hyperloop, loop and Elon's involvement. 

Goolge says "Hyperloop is an ultra-high-speed underground public transportation system in which passengers are transported at 600+ mph within a vacuum-sealed tunnel."
I took this to mean pneumatic.  It's really vactrain.
And I found other articles saying Loop is a car transport or a people transport (like a bus).

I think I have it straight now.  What ever the press and Elon says might or might not be true.

[cdev]

Flying between SF and LA takes about half an hour (for the actual flight) . And its a really pretty flight, as they go. And interesting, because they invariably follow the San Andreas Fault (or the coastline) all the way down and back - The fault is like a crinkly marker that just goes across the landscape.

Of course its the delay at airports that eats up most of the time.

But how would that be different with a hype-loop? (pretending for a minute that it had happened) Because it would need to have the same level of security as an airliner.

[DougSpindler]

If you calculate the projected cost to build the high-speed train from SF to LA every man women and child would have to make that trip 100 times, paying $100 just to cover construction costs/

You are right what happens if there is an earthquake and the ground shifts 25 feet?  I don’t think the track for a high speed train or the tube for the Hyperloop would be that flexible.  Would shut hate to be traveling at 200 to 800 mph when there’s an earthquake.  And for those who says it’s not going to happen....   Ridgecrest, just 100 miles to the north of LA has had over 30  4.5 - 7.1 earth quakes over the past year.

There are some who think none of this maters and we should build a high-speed train and/or a Hyperloop between SF and LA.

[wraper]

If you calculate the projected cost to build the high-speed train from SF to LA every man women and child would have to make that trip 100 times, paying $100 just to cover construction costs/

You just made this up. You have no actual data on this.

You are right what happens if there is an earthquake and the ground shifts 25 feet?

Earthquakes usually pose no serious threats to underground systems, especially if you dig deep enough. Most of the damage happens on the earth surface. It's pretty much the same as waves on water, where the water underneath is calm.

[cdev]

Have you ever lived in California, or any other place where earthquakes are common? It sounds as if you have not. They now build tall buildings with things like built in rollers and shock absorbers so they can flex and sway with the shocks, which are not infrequent. A really large earthquake can move the relative positions of objects on opposite sides of the fault by many meters. Also the ground can liquefy and erupt if its wet.

Earthquakes definitely would and do pose a threat to tunnels. They have various ways to adjust to this, I am not saying its "impossible" but it definitely would and does add substantially to costs and the planning thats required.

Otherwise this hype-train could find itself suddenly making a little directional adjustment... underground, at 500 mph!
 

If you calculate the projected cost to build the high-speed train from SF to LA every man women and child would have to make that trip 100 times, paying $100 just to cover construction costs/

You just made this up. You have no actual data on this.

You are right what happens if there is an earthquake and the ground shifts 25 feet?

Earthquakes usually pose no serious threats to underground systems, especially if you dig deep enough. Most of the damage happens on the earth surface. It's pretty much the same as waves on water, where the water underneath is calm.

This statement of yours could not possibly be true. Earthquakes are definitely an underground phenomenon, not a surface one.

One interesting electronics related phenomenon which I have seen, which are still not well understood is, very large earthquakes cause very bright flashes in the sky. (the ones I saw were greenish blue) very much like lightning. This must mean that there are very high voltage potentials in the ground.

I saw this once years ago and for decades I had no idea what it was that I had seen because it was not described in the literature.

But recentlly, thanks to sites like Youtube now there are a great many videos people have taken of them.

So that represents another potential problem that must be planned for. If a high voltage spike is large enough to cause these discharges into the sky, they must be absolutely huge.

[wraper]

This statement of yours could not possibly be true. Earthquakes are definitely an underground phenomenon, not a surface one.

Here we go again. Refuse to explore what I said.
https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Projects/Viaduct/Status/Blog/tunnels-and-earthquakes

All modern structures in the area – including bridges and highways – must be designed with earthquake safety in mind. But geotechnical and structural engineers agree that tunnels are among the safest places to be during an earthquake.

Some folks find this counterintuitive. How is it safe to be underground when the earth starts shaking? Turns out underground structures are safe because they move with the soil, while structures above ground sway back and forth.

Imagine a plate of fruit-filled gelatin dessert. Tunnels are like the pieces of fruit at the base of the gelatin, while above-ground structures are like the fruit toward the top. If you shake the plate, the movement becomes more exaggerated as it flows up from the base of the gelatin. In an earthquake, this translates to tunnel movement measured in inches, while the movement above ground might be measured in feet.

[Cyberdragon]

There seems to be some confusion between groundwaves caused by an earthquake and sctual movement across the fault. If you build a tunnel accross or near a fault, you will have to worry about underground movement, otherwise it'll just be surface waves.

One interesting electronics related phenomenon which I have seen, which are still not well understood is, very large earthquakes cause very bright flashes in the sky. (the ones I saw were greenish blue) very much like lightning. This must mean that there are very high voltage potentials in the ground.

I saw this once years ago and for decades I had no idea what it was that I had seen because it was not described in the literature.

But recentlly, thanks to sites like Youtube now there are a great many videos people have taken of them.

So that represents another potential problem that must be planned for. If a high voltage spike is large enough to cause these discharges into the sky, they must be absolutely huge.

I did my college geology project on the electrical effects in earthquakes. There is actually a fair amount of research if you dig deep enough, including studies and theories for the above phenomenon, piezoelectric properties of different rocks, and even large scale experements in the 90s and 00s using magnetohydrodynamic generators to force microquakes preventing energy buildup that would cause a larger quake.

However...it's not going to pose a threat to a conductive metal tube, it would be similar to lightning hitting an airplane.