Take your pick: Free Energy is Valid or is Not Valid?

[Xena E]

There is no need for big words or math to explain it if we actually understand what is happening on the most basic level. Ergo, the onus is on us imo.

Perhaps that is so, and I had admitted that I'm sometimes frustrated that I'm unable to explain a concept well, (I have an excuse!I have to tell people English is a third language), we can't all be Feynmans, however some personalities are deluded or just pig ignorant.

Once that's established I stop trying.

Recent amusing example:-
A friend of mine was discussing a simple problem of too much airflow in a flume cupboard with his boss. The extractor fan is powered by a two pole three phase induction motor, the motor being mounted external to the air flow.

The boss demanded that a VSD unit was fitted to the motor to reduce the speed and thereby the airflow.

Not having a suitable one in store, my friend suggested temporarily fitting a damper in the airflow into the fan to the same effect. This idea was rejected by the boss because he claimed that it would cause the motor current to rise and possibly damage it.

"No" said my friend, the current will be reduced, and no damage will be caused.

The boss became irate and insisted he was correct and made the analogy of domestic vacuum cleaners whose motors speed up and "strain" if the inlet to the hose nozzle is blocked .. and he had known them to subsequently burn out because of it.

My friend then pointed out that the speeding up is caused by a reduction in load because the fan was effectively running in a partial vacuum of its own creation, and the motor burning out caused either by lack of cooling airflow or that in the case of a universal wound brushed motor, that overspeeding had damaged it... he offered to use a current clamp meter to prove the fact.and put his boss's fears to rest..

The boss said: "I don't need you to do that because I know I'm right".

Oink oink!

[UnijunctionTransistor]

Just read this jewel of verbal diarrhea:

I recently found that magnetic helicity in toroidal plasmoids is conserved, which leads to a strong dynamic topological stability. The component terms of this helicity are Twist, Writhe and Link. These plasmoids must rotate and must be harmonic in order to be stable. (Nachamkin, ‘Force-free time harmonic plasmoids’, AFRL, Propulsion Directorate, Edwards AFB)

How can someone have this much talent to be come up with all this bullshit?

[Chet]

All very confusing.

  ALL of Chet's posts are confusing! He will say one thing and then directly contradict it!  Like they say, if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, then baffle them with Bull S**T!

Free energy is not valid.

Correct. But the endless recycling of charge could spawn an eternal plethora of energetic events depending upon the severity of the event and its frequency which can approach infinity without ever reaching it.
So, free energy per event is not free. But over time is another matter!

[LogicDude]

Infinite charge thought experiment:

An ideal coil with one amp of current flowing through it where both of the coil's terminals are connected to an ideal wire.

At the "output" of the coil you are monitoring the current flow.  Current flow times time equals charge.

So, if your monitoring device has an infinite amount of time, then you measure an infinite amount of charge.

Two mechanical equivalents:

1.  You put a spring in a vice and tighten the vice.  Leave it like that to the end of time.

2.  A rotating disk on ideal bearings in a perfect vacuum.  Leave it like that to the end of time.

There must be a way to make money from these advanced concepts!!!

[LogicDude]

A fun little brain teaser.

A spring in a vice can be modeled as an inductor or as a capacitor.

A rotating disk can be modeled as an inductor or as a capacitor.

In the old days they would connect up a network of electrical capacitors and inductors and resistors to model how a physical system would work in the real world.  In essence, the setup is an analog computer.  And they used to build analog computers to solve problems in the real world all the time.

During WWII, big battleships had massive mechanical analog computers to calculate the firing solution for the big guns.  It's pretty fascinating stuff and if you hunt around on YouTube you will find clips about it.

[Chet]

It is true overunity that can't possibly happen.

1.9 to 1 > > > Read the log file after running it.

[Xena E]

Infinite charge thought experiment:

An ideal coil with one amp of current flowing through it where both of the coil's terminals are connected to an ideal wire.

At the "output" of the coil you are monitoring the current flow.  Current flow times time equals charge.

So, if your monitoring device has an infinite amount of time, then you measure an infinite amount of charge.

Two mechanical equivalents:

1.  You put a spring in a vice and tighten the vice.  Leave it like that to the end of time.

2.  A rotating disk on ideal bearings in a perfect vacuum.  Leave it like that to the end of time.

There must be a way to make money from these advanced concepts!!!

Genius!

(... perpetual motion is useless unless "you" are within the frame of reference ... travelling in outer space for instance... storage of energy can only be transfered... )

Though seriously, stored energy in a spring has been profitable for centuries for clock makers...

[Ice-Tea]

It is true overunity that can't possibly happen.

1.9 to 1 > > > Read the log file after running it.

The fact that you still don't understand the inherent limitation of any simulation is baffling to me.

I teach on a simulator (of a different nature though that doesn't matter) and one of the first things I teach is that as much as it is a usefull tool sooner or later you'll encounter the limitations of your own inputs or the inherent limitations of the tool.

[paul cotter]

Chet says that the endless recycling of charge could spawn an eternal plethora of energetic events depending on the severity.................Words like "spawn" and "severity" have no place in a scientific description but this sentence is actually less wrong than the usual stuff. What does he think happens in a generator? The same charge is recirculated over and over. The problem is that it takes more energy, due to the inevitable losses, to drive that charge around and around than can be had from the generator output.

[Nominal Animal]

The fact that you still don't understand the inherent limitation of any simulation is baffling to me.

I teach on a simulator (of a different nature though that doesn't matter) and one of the first things I teach is that as much as it is a usefull tool sooner or later you'll encounter the limitations of your own inputs or the inherent limitations of the tool.

Hear, hear.  I've used, developed, and maintained different scientific simulators (mostly molecular dynamics), and have tried explaining the same to Chet.  As in, the first thing one must always verify when getting results, is to check if they make sense.  The simulator is just a tool, not an oracle.

[UnijunctionTransistor]

“The simulator is only a tool, not an oracle”.

Sage words, indeed, which I will use in my phrase repertoire, whenever dealing with someone suffering from the Dunning-Kruger syndrome.

[Chet]

Chet says that the endless recycling of charge could spawn an eternal plethora of energetic events depending on the severity.................Words like "spawn" and "severity" have no place in a scientific description but this sentence is actually less wrong than the usual stuff. What does he think happens in a generator? The same charge is recirculated over and over. The problem is that it takes more energy, due to the inevitable losses, to drive that charge around and around than can be had from the generator output.

That's why it's not a smart device. A smart device wouldn't induce any exorbitant cost for the user, for example: a flashlight circuit is not a smart device. And neither is a generator. But it makes lots of money for its operator! And that's important if you're sucking money from out of circulation to save us from hyper-inflation. The Tax Man doesn't suck enough money as it is without help from other agencies. Then all of that money is sunk into pooled investments never to see the light of day ever again. Even their dividends are sent back into the pool; anything to prevent hyper-inflation while encouraging an endless production of fiat currency dispersed to anyone who upholds the lowest morals imaginable.

What I promote is in direct competition with that monopoly. So, it's no small wonder that your professors never encouraged you to "buck the establishment" since "freely available charge spawning multiple energetic events" spreads the wealth around to whomever who has the gusto and the savvy to fend for themselves. That thought terrifies the establishment due to the expectation that it might induce anarchy.

Not enough trust in human nature to warrant what I promote. Oh well. I'm born too early. Should have waited at least a century or two...or maybe an entire millennium.

Chet says that the endless recycling of charge could spawn an eternal plethora of energetic events depending on the severity.................Words like "spawn" and "severity" have no place in a scientific description but this sentence is actually less wrong than the usual stuff. What does he think happens in a generator? The same charge is recirculated over and over. The problem is that it takes more energy, due to the inevitable losses, to drive that charge around and around than can be had from the generator output.

That must be why you don't trust my latest simulation of an electric heater intended to boil water since it easily propels charge around since its energetic events are nearly twice the cost of the recycling of charge.

[paul cotter]

Ice-Tea, the limitations of simulations have been pointed out, repeatedly. Chet does not want to learn the truth as the truth will destroy his fantasies. Some people are slow to learn but with a refusal to learn all attempts become futile.

[rob77]

 Chet !!! how many time did we tell you to not sniff toluene while munching on contact cement ?!?!

[Chet]

Ice-Tea, the limitations of simulations have been pointed out, repeatedly. Chet does not want to learn the truth as the truth will destroy his fantasies. Some people are slow to learn but with a refusal to learn all attempts become futile.

Granted, LTSpice is a cheap knock-off of what could have been more accurate. I think Ansys is more accurate since it allows for the inclusion of the behavioral characteristics of the materials of construction. I have to make do with what I can afford. That increases the risk of false positives.

But so what? Why cry when I can strive? I'd rather be a striver than a party pooper since lack of money never stopped anyone from hard work even if it means practicing on the piano with a cardboard covering with the keys painted on the cardboard during the repressive Mao Tse Tung regime as described by a pianist giving a recital at the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion in Los Angeles a few decades ago.

It merely implies I need to work a little harder wasting my time on what could be a plethora of false positives because it doesn't matter since it all contributes to "skill building" even if it seems like a waste of time....it's not since the application of devotion is never wasted even if the results are.

[paul cotter]

Chet, I am an old school old fogey and I have never used a simulator. I do not know what error you have made in your simulation but I can be absolutely certain that no such gains occur in the real world. I have knocked up more circuitry than you could imagine and such gains never happen. 

[Chet]

Chet, I am an old school old fogey and I have never used a simulator. I do not know what error you have made in your simulation but I can be absolutely certain that no such gains occur in the real world. I have knocked more circuitry than you could imagine and such gains never happen.

A distinct possibility that you never imposed certain disciplinary actions during all that time with all of your circuits, such as: welded junctions. Resistance can be your friend in all the right places. But if certain sections of the circuit demands the opposite of voltage enlargement, then *any* resistance at junctions can become a silent hazard....silent since it won't tell you that it could be a risk for failure in my line of work.

Simulations taught me this.

[TimFox]

Are you running your circuits with appropriate materials and temperatures to ensure all junctions are superconducting?

[paul cotter]

Of course Tim, niobium wire cooled with liquid helium!

[Ice-Tea]

It merely implies I need to work a little harder wasting my time on what could be a plethora of false positives because it doesn't matter since it all contributes to "skill building" even if it seems like a waste of time....it's not since the application of devotion is never wasted even if the results are.

If skill building was what you were after, you'd be searching high and low for the error that gave you over-unity. Not boasting about it online.

[Chet]

It merely implies I need to work a little harder wasting my time on what could be a plethora of false positives because it doesn't matter since it all contributes to "skill building" even if it seems like a waste of time....it's not since the application of devotion is never wasted even if the results are.

If skill building was what you were after, you'd be searching high and low for the error that gave you over-unity. Not boasting about it online.

Only by risking being branded a fool will my conscience intercede for autocorrection. I have to get involved or else I will never learn. And that entails stretching credulity -- especially credulity. For, the more I risk, the more I gain -- in addition to the pain. But that's part of the job description of taking risks.

[Chet]

Are you running your circuits with appropriate materials and temperatures to ensure all junctions are superconducting?

You're assuming an overly simplistic circuit topology since "all junctions are superconducting" implies you're not making use of voltage enlargement anywhere in the circuit in addition to preserving current with reduced resistance in other areas of the circuit. By magnetically coupling these two areas, something more sophisticated than an overly simplistic circuit becomes the benefit.

[paul cotter]

You could do a zillion simulations but if no hardware is assembled to prove your ideas it will all be a supreme waste of time.

[paul cotter]

Voltage enlargement!! Good God where did that come from?

[TimFox]

Voltage enlargement grows organically from buncombe.