Has anyone used aisler.net ?

[thinkfat]

Aislers confidence in their (manufacturers) drilling precision may not be entirely warranted. I've received boards from them where the holes were quite a bit off and it only worked out because my vias were generously dimensioned.

Also, they should not advertise 0.2mm drilling capability when they actually can't.

[ebastler]

Hmm -- I have ordered a couple more designs from Aisler (4-layer "HD" boards), and am still torn:

• The precision of the etching, silkscreen, and stencils is great.
• The solder mask is so-so; they widen the openings a bit more than I would like, and more than the various Chinese board houses I have used.
• The contour milling is disappointing: On one order, the milling was so far off on 2 of the 6 PCBs that they had milled straight into the copper -- although I had obeyed the design rules, of course, and had staid away from the edge as required. Another order had mouse bites all around each board, instead of the desired contour as proudly displayed by their online viewer. One edge of that board design had a milled feature in the contour, and the mouse bite was just in that spot, instead of the desired feature.

No response to an email complaint I sent 10 days ago.

Instead, I now see that they have increased their prices significantly, by 37% if I wanted to reorder my two-week-old order again today. Well, maybe that will pay for adequate staffing to enable them to answer emails.

[jfiresto]

... I now see that [Aisler] have increased their prices significantly, by 37% if I wanted to reorder my two-week-old order again today....

Their prices may have increased or decreased depending on the board area.

According to their blog, Aisler now charge a fixed 10,40 euros plus the boards cm²-area times a multiplier. It is all there, clear as beer, on GitHub: "Want to know how we calculate our prices? Look no further! " If you are not a Ruby(?)-ist, it may be faster and safer to upload and price two different sized boards and solve for the linear coefficients.

I received some HASL Blitz boards yesterday, five days after I ordered them. They show more tool strikes, but not hard enough to pierce the solder mask.

[ebastler]

Their prices may have increased or decreased depending on the board area.
According to their blog, Aisler now charge a fixed 10,40 euros plus the boards cm²-area times a multiplier.

No, I don't think that is the price increase I am talking about. My most recent order was placed a few weeks after that May 22 blog post, and the blog post mentions that new pricing had been introduced "recently", i.e. before the blog post. And the prices for that same order are 37% higher today. The stencils play a significant part in this, they went up by 58%. I did not see any information on that price hike.

As I said, I remain torn about Aisler. Their communication leaves a lot to be desired, be it via email or on the website. Why is the success rate in getting an email response less than 50%? Why isn't there a "pricing" entry on the help pages?! And where is that Wiki, by the way, which I am supposed to "check for details" according to the blog post? 

[jfiresto]

... Why isn't there a "pricing" entry on the help pages?! And where is that Wiki, by the way, which I am supposed to "check for details" according to the blog post? 

I used duckduckgo to find it. I think it commendable that Aisler have not created a slick website, to hide that they are a bit disorganized. With theirs, what you see is what you get. That said, from what I have experienced so far, I think everyone would benefit if they could improve their operation and presentation.

[ebastler]

... Why isn't there a "pricing" entry on the help pages?! And where is that Wiki, by the way, which I am supposed to "check for details" according to the blog post? 

I used duckduckgo to find it.

Hmm... Duckduckgo suggests https://aisler.net/wiki/, which turn out to be a dead link. Fits the general theme...

[Ysjoelfir]

I seriously wonder why you still try to cope with such a bad service instead of turning your back to them and use a different manufacturer which offers better service. Heck, even the chinese PCB houses which were long said to be a PITA in that regard offer better service than what I read here, with many times comparable quality and speed.

[thinkfat]

I seriously wonder why you still try to cope with such a bad service instead of turning your back to them and use a different manufacturer which offers better service. Heck, even the chinese PCB houses which were long said to be a PITA in that regard offer better service than what I read here, with many times comparable quality and speed.

(snap) And in the blink of an eye the whole COVID-19 crisis and the Chinese manufacturing blackout were wiped from the memory of the people...

[ebastler]

I seriously wonder why you still try to cope with such a bad service instead of turning your back to them and use a different manufacturer which offers better service. Heck, even the chinese PCB houses which were long said to be a PITA in that regard offer better service than what I read here, with many times comparable quality and speed.

As mentioned a few posts above, the quality of Aisler's etching, silkscreen, and stencils is great, better than what I have seen from any of the Chinese vendors. (All referring to Aisler's HD boards; I have not used their Blitz service.) And for the board I am currently working on, Aisler's price and delivery time are better than the Chinese vendors' for small quantities -- even after the recent price hike.

It is a pity that Aisler's PCB subcontractor has had issues with the contour milling -- I would like to hear from others whether that is a recurring issue or whether I just had bad luck. And it is a pity that Aisler does not do a better job responding to emails; that issue is entirely their own. I really do hope that part of the price increase goes to paying for another employee...

[Warhawk]

I seriously wonder why you still try to cope with such a bad service instead of turning your back to them and use a different manufacturer which offers better service. Heck, even the chinese PCB houses which were long said to be a PITA in that regard offer better service than what I read here, with many times comparable quality and speed.

As mentioned a few posts above, the quality of Aisler's etching, silkscreen, and stencils is great, better than what I have seen from any of the Chinese vendors. (All referring to Aisler's HD boards; I have not used their Blitz service.) And for the board I am currently working on, Aisler's price and delivery time are better than the Chinese vendors' for small quantities -- even after the recent price hike.

It is a pity that Aisler's PCB subcontractor has had issues with the contour milling -- I would like to hear from others whether that is a recurring issue or whether I just had bad luck. And it is a pity that Aisler does not do a better job responding to emails; that issue is entirely their own. I really do hope that part of the price increase goes to paying for another employee...

Hi, I did not read the complete thread. For this reason, I apologize if I am replying to something else. I too had a problem with milling and mousebites. I discussed this with Felix and he mentioned that the standard service does not offer secondary milling. Only the primary milling. You need to use HD service for this. Additionally, Aisler officially does not support multiple PCBs per order. Mousebites are not allowed but they manufactured this for me several times without any complaints. I exchanged couple emails on this with Felix (I am a corporate user) and he mentioned they will do something about it.
I am still happy with the service. I dislike the webpage.

[jfiresto]

I have not had any issues with the perforated tab routing, but that is after only 3 sets of 8 boards, one set HD and two Blitz. I hope one day, soon, the website will go beta and I no longer have to puzzle how to navigate to there from here.

When I used Beta Layout's PCB Pool around the turn of the millennium, I had issues with roughly every fourth order. I could believe that Aisler is at that level. If only they had Beta's fast and efficient customer service, I could stop wondering whether the really good aspects of Aisler's service are worth its glitches.

[ebastler]

Not sure whether I was clear about it in my earlier post. My issue with mousebites is that (a) I get them at all and have to clean them up myself, where the "guaranteed" preview had shown me a nice milling countour, and (b) for one of my orders, they put the mousebites in the most stupid conceivable place.

I had ordered a very simple board -- nevertheless even in "HD" service, to enable the slots for the USB jack. It's meant to plug onto a DIP IC, hence its contour has the dimple on one side to indicate the correct orientation. Like so -- note the big fat milling contour as highlighted by Aisler's preview:



Instead what I received was this:



I can understand that maybe there is a minimum size the machines can handle, so they can't mill smaller boards to the final size. But what is the point of the "guaranteed" Gerber preview when it doesn't tell the truth there? And if they need mousebites, can't they at least place them carefully? In this case, a piece of sandpaper wasn't enough to clean this up; I had to get the file out and improvise the dimple myself. And these weren't even cheap for what they were; as mentioned I had to order them in "HD". Grmpf...

[jfiresto]

Yes, that is a bit of surprise. I am guessing a workaround would be to straighten the left edge and silkscreen  dimples (on both sides?) where the routed dimple would be.

[jfiresto]

It would be nice if Aisler's preview would show where they will place the tabs but they may decide that later when they optimize the panel.

[Ysjoelfir]

(snap) And in the blink of an eye the whole COVID-19 crisis and the Chinese manufacturing blackout were wiped from the memory of the people...

Have you ordered something from a chinese PCB house in the last weeks? And did you pay for a shipping method that is not the cheapest, most economy snail mail based shipping which gets carried by foot from shenzen to your place? I ordered three times in the last two months, payed a reasonable price, shipping included. two times from china for a client, once for my own project from germany. The two deliveries from china were just two days slower than the delivery from germany. And Corona has been here for more than two months

As mentioned a few posts above, the quality of Aisler's etching, silkscreen, and stencils is great, better than what I have seen from any of the Chinese vendors. (All referring to Aisler's HD boards; I have not used their Blitz service.) And for the board I am currently working on, Aisler's price and delivery time are better than the Chinese vendors' for small quantities -- even after the recent price hike.

It is a pity that Aisler's PCB subcontractor has had issues with the contour milling -- I would like to hear from others whether that is a recurring issue or whether I just had bad luck. And it is a pity that Aisler does not do a better job responding to emails; that issue is entirely their own. I really do hope that part of the price increase goes to paying for another employee...

I never doubted the general quality, and also regarding the problems that were mentioned like tool/hit marks, misaligned stuff and manufacturing errors - mistakes can happen. But I would expect better, especially in service, from a german company. I mean, I am part time self employed, and if I would treat my customers like that, ignoring them when they have a complaint, I doubt that I would still be in business.
Which is why I wonder why you guys still shove money up aislers... wallets...,support or even encourage such a behaviour while doing so, AND even defend them. I just can't understand that.

[ebastler]

Which is why I wonder why you guys still shove money up aislers... wallets...,support or even encourage such a behaviour while doing so, AND even defend them. I just can't understand that.

Who's "defending" them? We are pointing out what they do well and what they don't.

For the PCBs I currently work on, Aisler offers better quality and price, plus slightly faster delivery, than the Chinese vendors. (Although the price advantage has shrunk a lot with Aisler's new pricing.) When I need different, e.g. larger PCBs, or features Aisler does not offer, I will happily go back to a Chinese supplier.

[Ysjoelfir]

Isn't going against someone with arguments like "yes, thats not that good, but they do this and that very great which is why I will still use them even though I am not completely satisfied!" kind of defending them?

[thinkfat]

(snap) And in the blink of an eye the whole COVID-19 crisis and the Chinese manufacturing blackout were wiped from the memory of the people...

Have you ordered something from a chinese PCB house in the last weeks? And did you pay for a shipping method that is not the cheapest, most economy snail mail based shipping which gets carried by foot from shenzen to your place? I ordered three times in the last two months, payed a reasonable price, shipping included. two times from china for a client, once for my own project from germany. The two deliveries from china were just two days slower than the delivery from germany. And Corona has been here for more than two months

Yes I have. I have ordered two PCBs made and assembled. This is something I cannot get from Aisler or any other local manufacturer and not cost an arm and a leg. But I will still continue ordering stuff locally, even if I could buy a comparable item from China.

Isn't going against someone with arguments like "yes, thats not that good, but they do this and that very great which is why I will still use them even though I am not completely satisfied!" kind of defending them?

No.

[Ysjoelfir]

Yes I have. I have ordered two PCBs made and assembled. This is something I cannot get from Aisler or any other local manufacturer and not cost an arm and a leg. But I will still continue ordering stuff locally, even if I could buy a comparable item from China.

Which is totally fine and I absolutely support that. As I wrote, for my personal projects I prefer to use local manufacturers, too. I personally would just choose an other manufacturer, if I have had or read about several problems and a bad service.

No.

I think thats a question of interpretation and the way you read sentences - as expressions can't be perfectly transported over plain text.

[PlainName]

As it happens, and partly due to this thread, I just ordered the same PCB from JLCPCB and Aisler. From JLCPCB I chose to use the default cheapest shipping since it's not time sensitive, the total cost being £5.55. If I'd elected to go for fast shipping - 3 to 5 days - it would have been around £19.

For Aisler the only choice was £17 for three boards (JLCPCB was, of course, for five). Ordered on the same day last week, JLCPCB shipped on Saturday and Aisler shipped Monday. However, Aisler say it will take another 5 days to turn up.

Seems to me that JLCPCB are better on several counts: very cheap if that's what you want, comparable price but faster delivery if that's what you want, and you get 5 instead of 3 boards. I also like that JLCPCB give you photos of the product as shipped as proof that they've shipped something - not that important but nice all the same.

Quality-wise, I've never had an issue with JLCPCB. This is my first time with Aisler and if there's the slightest issue it'll be my last - the only reason left to use them would be 'local' manufacture.

[ebastler]

For Aisler the only choice was £17 for three boards (JLCPCB was, of course, for five). Ordered on the same day last week, JLCPCB shipped on Saturday and Aisler shipped Monday. However, Aisler say it will take another 5 days to turn up.

Ouch, the five-day shipping delay is annoying. So far, all my "regular, free shipping" orders from Aisler have arrived the next day after they were shipped. And that has of course helped a lot to keep Aisler competitive on cost and delivery time.

I hadn't realized that mail (from the Netherlands or Germany?) to the UK takes that much longer. If it's the same to other European countries, that would limit the region where Aisler has a competitive offering.

[PlainName]

Maybe they mean 'up to five days' and it'll arrive todaytomorrow

[PlainName]

They arrived today. Superficially they look fine but given this thread I had a closer look

Three boards and two showed a tool strike (or similar). Strangely, they were both around the same hole:




Then, of course, there are the nibbles on three sides where the boards have been de-paneled:



And a NPTH which is actually a PTH:



Doesn't matter to me in this project, but if you really needed NPTH that could be an issue. For reference, the JLCPCB NPTH:



Oh! Didn't I mention? The JLCPCB boards arrived today too, in the same post drop. So £5 for 5 or £17 for 3, same delivery time. Tricky. I can save another almost £2 with a VAT claim from Aisler, so that's really £5/board vs £1/board.

Both sets of boards were very similar, apart from the JLCPCB having no nibbles nor even any sign that there were any. Another thing, may be minor but could be useful, is how close to the board edge the ident can go. First, Aisler:



And JLCPCB, which gets much closer to the edge:



Another thing of note is that the JLCPCB via holes are smaller. One is also a bit off in that photo but both sets have spot-on holes and slightly-adrift holes.

[Ysjoelfir]

[...]

Thats basically what I meant with my questioning before - same or better quality and speed for less money - and with a better service.

Could you post a closeup of the routed board edges? In the last two pics it looks like the aisler PCB is way rougher than the one from JLCPCB.

[PlainName]

It's just the way the light catches the board edge in that photo. They are exactly the same other than the Aisler boards have the de-paneling nibble in the middle of every side - outside of that you can't tell the difference and both are dead smooth.