Introducing: Raspberry Pi 5!

[themadhippy]

The school boy in me wonders if there'll be an incremental upgrade to 5.5

[djacobow]

"For the server image you will be able to login through HDMI or a serial console connection. The predefined user is ubuntu and the password is ubuntu."

WHYYYYY???

There seems to be a pervasive view that if ssh is enabled by default with a default password that your machine will get owned the instant you plug it in. The same reasoning seems to have influenced why raspbian dropped the default user and password.

I don't know what networks people are using to bring up their toy sbcs, but I'm quite sure there aren't black hats pounding my home network from the inside.

It's a minor inconvenience, and I kind of like that my rock 5b has a serial console. Come to think of it, the $30 Le Potatoes have it, too. Then again, I'm an embedded dev and always have FTDI cables laying about.

[SiliconWizard]

Regarding actual prices - this is as expected *right now* already and for people living in the EU.
If you have access to it, just look at prices on this web site (which is a big reseller over here): https://www.materiel.net/produit/202309280029.html

79.90 EUR for the 4GB, 119.90 EUR for the 8GB, VAT included. So given the conversion between USD and EUR, that is over +50% compared to the announced prices. Aren't we lucky over here!!

[abeyer]

I don't know what networks people are using to bring up their toy sbcs, but I'm quite sure there aren't black hats pounding my home network from the inside.

It might be manageable when you're at home but can be a real hassle in labs, offices, classrooms, etc... where you have a shared wifi network and have potentially many users with many devices. When raspbian shipped a default user, people would take advantage of that to write scripts to "make things easy" that would just poke the first pi device they saw on the network (assuming there would only ever be one) with the default creds and could easily get the wrong one when there were many and they all had the same user account.

[ejeffrey]

I don't know what networks people are using to bring up their toy sbcs, but I'm quite sure there aren't black hats pounding my home network from the inside.

It might be manageable when you're at home but can be a real hassle in labs, offices, classrooms, etc... where you have a shared wifi network and have potentially many users with many devices.

Yeah a better way to handle this is to have a unique default password that's on a sticker on the device.  That requires a unique hardware ID and extra manufacturing time steps but it's the way to go for consumer electronics.

But the best option  for the RPi is to use the raspberry pi imaging tool to write your SD card or USB boot device rather than buying a pre images SD cards.  Then you can enable SSH, create a user account, and set a password.

[NiHaoMike]

I'm curious if the RP1 chip can be programmed to interface to a high speed ADC at least up to a few tens of MSps, could make a great new SDR if so.

[DiTBho]

My RISC-V board

I'm waiting for a small RISC-V board with SMP full support and a couple PCIe that's a little better supported by Haiku/OS, then I'll definitely go back to dealing with it (even to develop a simple kernel driver for MGA chip, Matrox, dual channel), on the front line, so even if it were unstable or full of bugs, it would be fine.

At the moment, however, I find the two MIPS boards from 1992 (R3000 32bit) and 1995 (R4000, 32/64bit) much more pleasing, one from IDT, the other from Algorithmics, things that have no { GNU/Linux, NetBSD, OpenBSD } support, and that's fine, as you program in assembly, because that's all you can do, but you relax more than using the last super powerful generation SBC for the same things you would do with your smartphone.

I have never bought an RPI. I worked on a couple of Allwinner ARM/32bit SoCs, and on a MediaTek ARM/32bit SoC, and I was very stressed by the terrible level of both the firmware and the kernel.

Well, comparing my experience with Allwinner and MediaTek: the second one is 5 times better!

[AndyBeez]

So one needs the $5 heatsink to keep the CPU from throttling?

I am still undecided if the latest incarnation of the Pi is trying to be a Power PC for tinkerers, whilst maintaining the toy price?

[DiTBho]

So one needs the $5 heatsink to keep the CPU from throttling?

it's required. Heatsink + fan

I am still undecided if the latest incarnation of the Pi is trying to be a Power PC for tinkerers, whilst maintaining the toy price?

PowerPC? 

PPC601?603?750?7410?7450?e500?... or what?

[dmendesf]

Not really. Apparently the RP1 is the I/O controller they designed for the RPi5, it contains pretty much all I/O interfaces (USB, Ethernet, ... and yes, the GPIOs and some UARTs, SPI, I2C), but there is no indication that the GPIOs will even be programmable with something similar to the RP2040's PIO, and I doubt it at this point, but we'll see. Even if this is the case, a complete MCU beside the SoC would IMO have been a good addition, something other SBC vendors do offer, and something that would have made sense for a RPi. So, the RP1 is said to have been designed by the same team as the RP2040, but that doesn't mean that it is anything close to it and even less so that it actually contains a CPU core of some kind. So, this RP1 may be cool and a good idea for lowering costs and integration, but adding a RP2040 to the board wouldn't have hurt IMO. We'll see what this RP1 can really do.

Seems not only it has PIO but also two Cortex-M3:

https://twitter.com/arturo182/status/1707714277438529644?t=m-siXK6TEQYUU5gokrQgSw&s=19

What I really want to know is if it still has SMI.

[SiliconWizard]

Not really. Apparently the RP1 is the I/O controller they designed for the RPi5, it contains pretty much all I/O interfaces (USB, Ethernet, ... and yes, the GPIOs and some UARTs, SPI, I2C), but there is no indication that the GPIOs will even be programmable with something similar to the RP2040's PIO, and I doubt it at this point, but we'll see. Even if this is the case, a complete MCU beside the SoC would IMO have been a good addition, something other SBC vendors do offer, and something that would have made sense for a RPi. So, the RP1 is said to have been designed by the same team as the RP2040, but that doesn't mean that it is anything close to it and even less so that it actually contains a CPU core of some kind. So, this RP1 may be cool and a good idea for lowering costs and integration, but adding a RP2040 to the board wouldn't have hurt IMO. We'll see what this RP1 can really do.

Seems not only it has PIO but also two Cortex-M3:

https://twitter.com/arturo182/status/1707714277438529644?t=m-siXK6TEQYUU5gokrQgSw&s=19

What I really want to know is if it still has SMI.

That's interesting. Hopefully they'll document the RP1.

[brucehoult]

I'm waiting for a small RISC-V board with SMP full support and a couple PCIe that's a little better supported by Haiku/OS

https://discuss.haiku-os.org/t/progress-on-running-haiku-on-visionfive-2/13369

At the moment, however, I find the two MIPS boards from 1992 (R3000 32bit) and 1995 (R4000, 32/64bit)

What's that? 133 or 166 MHz?  You can make your own SMT machine in an FPGA with just about that speed, with exactly the design and peripherals you want.

[brucehoult]

So one needs the $5 heatsink to keep the CPU from throttling?

It depends how you use it. Reviews show it needs about 30 seconds of 100% all cores CPU load to get to throttling.

Most people who aren't programmers or recompressing video would never max out the CPU for more than a couple of seconds at a time.

[DiTBho]

@brucehoult

R3000@50Mhz, 16Mb ram, AUI
R4000@60Mhz, 64MB ram, AUI

I have already implemented a mips32r2 in fpga@50Mhz, 96kb ram, but real hardware, and specially where everythig began has a better appeal 

[David Hess]

Giving eMMC storage options, to replace the potentially unreliable microSD cards.

At least a microSD card is replaceable.  How reliable is eMMC compared to a good microSD card?

[beanflying]

Giving eMMC storage options, to replace the potentially unreliable microSD cards.

At least a microSD card is replaceable.  How reliable is eMMC compared to a good microSD card?

Typically eMMC is just plug or unplug and you can get USB adapters to program them in some cases. Costs on them are still a bit more but not by a lot.

Not impossible to fit both and and find room for an m.2 header while you are at it.

[brucehoult]

Typically eMMC is just plug or unplug and you can get USB adapters to program them in some cases. Costs on them are still a bit more but not by a lot.

If you look in the big electronics distributors you will find eMMC chip, but not cards/modules.

Hardkernel just made up something themselves to make removable eMMC for their Odroid boards. First Pine64 and then later other Chinese manufacturers have adopted Hardkernel's defacto standard.

[brucehoult]

According to Yearling the RP1 shares a lot with the RP2040, is used to drive the GPIO, and is probably user-programmable with code running with the Pi "off".

Not really. Apparently the RP1 is the I/O controller they designed for the RPi5, it contains pretty much all I/O interfaces (USB, Ethernet, ... and yes, the GPIOs and some UARTs, SPI, I2C), but there is no indication that the GPIOs will even be programmable with something similar to the RP2040's PIO, and I doubt it at this point, but we'll see. Even if this is the case, a complete MCU beside the SoC would IMO have been a good addition, something other SBC vendors do offer, and something that would have made sense for a RPi. So, the RP1 is said to have been designed by the same team as the RP2040, but that doesn't mean that it is anything close to it and even less so that it actually contains a CPU core of some kind. So, this RP1 may be cool and a good idea for lowering costs and integration, but adding a RP2040 to the board wouldn't have hurt IMO. We'll see what this RP1 can really do.

I know what the RP1 is. I am quoting what Yearling has said subsequent to using and reviewing the board and asking Raspberry Pi a lot of questions. He's good buddies with Eben and I'm sure gets his questions answered.

e.g.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37686458

Vindication!

[tszaboo]

Regarding actual prices - this is as expected *right now* already and for people living in the EU.
If you have access to it, just look at prices on this web site (which is a big reseller over here): https://www.materiel.net/produit/202309280029.html

79.90 EUR for the 4GB, 119.90 EUR for the 8GB, VAT included. So given the conversion between USD and EUR, that is over +50% compared to the announced prices. Aren't we lucky over here!!

So 120 EUR, plus you need to buy a power supply, a case, a small heatsink probably still, an SD card just to make it work.
That's only just a bit more expensive than a used mini PC with a Core i5 processor and 250 GB SSD.
I'm sure people will find the justification to buy it.

[langwadt]

I'm curious if the RP1 chip can be programmed to interface to a high speed ADC at least up to a few tens of MSps, could make a great new SDR if so.

https://iosoft.blog/2020/07/16/raspberry-pi-smi/

[aeberbach]

So one needs the $5 heatsink to keep the CPU from throttling?

Not required - depends what you're doing. I read an interview where Eben said that it does not throttle in normal use (i.e. Linux desktop etc) without the heatsink but if you are one of those people who likes to work the CPUs as hard as possible then the heatsink is enough to prevent throttling in all cases.

[langwadt]

Giving eMMC storage options, to replace the potentially unreliable microSD cards.

At least a microSD card is replaceable.  How reliable is eMMC compared to a good microSD card?

Typically eMMC is just plug or unplug and you can get USB adapters to program them in some cases. Costs on them are still a bit more but not by a lot.

if you cna live with the extra stickout you can also get eMMC on an sdcard shaped adapter, it is basically the same interface

[gmb42]

Regarding actual prices - this is as expected *right now* already and for people living in the EU.
If you have access to it, just look at prices on this web site (which is a big reseller over here): https://www.materiel.net/produit/202309280029.html

79.90 EUR for the 4GB, 119.90 EUR for the 8GB, VAT included. So given the conversion between USD and EUR, that is over +50% compared to the announced prices. Aren't we lucky over here!!

Seems to be a pricy reseller.  Pimoroni in the UK have the following (VAT included, £3.95 postage to UK)

4GB - Pi4 £54.96, Pi5 £59.40
8GB - Pi4 £74.94, Pi5 £78.90

[David Hess]

Giving eMMC storage options, to replace the potentially unreliable microSD cards.

At least a microSD card is replaceable.  How reliable is eMMC compared to a good microSD card?

Typically eMMC is just plug or unplug and you can get USB adapters to program them in some cases. Costs on them are still a bit more but not by a lot.

Not impossible to fit both and and find room for an m.2 header while you are at it.

I did some studying over the weekend and nothing makes an MMC or eMMC more reliable than a microSD or other SD card.  The protocol is different so may be more suitable for things like in-place execution, but they both now rely on standard NAND flash technology.  An eMMC is more accurately thought of as a MicroSD that can be soldered in place, so cheaper.

[MK14]

I did some studying over the weekend and nothing makes an MMC or eMMC more reliable than a microSD or other SD card.  The protocol is different so may be more suitable for things like in-place execution, but they both now rely on standard NAND flash technology.  An eMMC is more accurately thought of as a MicroSD that can be soldered in place, so cheaper.

That is a very good, question.

My understanding is that microSD cards, on previous Pi’s, had issues with damage to the data on it, sometimes so bad (in time), that the Pi would no longer, even boot from it.  Especially vulnerable during power down.  Maybe because previous Pi’s, had no power button.

Also, microSD cards have a reputation of being (but NOT as bad as USB flash pens) poor quality (salvaged rejected flash chips).  Especially really cheap, unbranded ones.  Might be missing some of the features built into SSDs, which helps keep the data safe, such as wear evenly (levelling) and proper handling of things like data corruption (recovery).

I’m not sure why, in comparison, eMMC is held in such high regard.  Perhaps it has decent quality, long life flash, with a degree of similarity to SSD techniques.