Please recommend a hassle-free Linux SBC that runs python and does networking

[Warhawk]

I would like to learn something new and play a bit with linux SBCs. The project should be a simple sensor node with a webserver. Yes, it is a weather station . I'd like to use python for programming. I am looking for a minimalistic board with networking and good support. Which board would you recommend in 2020? I kinda like OrangePI, NanoPI boards (e.g. NanoPi Neo LTS). I expect creating my own PCB with sensors (eventually with backup power) that plugs to the SBC. What is the hassle free choice? I don't want to end-up with compiling my own kernel etc.
Thanks for any tips.

Edit:how important is the on-board eMMC? Can the SD card offer reliable operation (min. 1y up-time?)

[OwO]

Look for something that has a history of good armbian support. However if it only needs to log a sensor and serve a web interface the esp32 might be good enough.

[Warhawk]

I think the esp32 runs only micropython. I would rather prefer full-blown linux.

[RoGeorge]

Raspberry Pi (RPi).

Just insert the SD card, and have a full working Linux PC, with USB, LAN, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, serial, video, audio, camera, etc.  Of course, has Python.

Has almost any possible flavor of Linux already ported, from Debian to Gentoo.  Plenty of projects and tutorials available, has ready made hardware add-ons available (e.g. hardware for Google voice assistant, motor drivers and sensors kits for robotics, and so on).

RPi is a little more expensive for the same hardware, when compared with other SBC, but has bigger community and better support.

Beware that there are many types of RPi, some bigger, some smaller, some with Wi-Fi, some without.

I have had no SD card problems so far, also there is always possible to use RAM for temp or other directories, if you think the SD card might wear out.

[Warhawk]

Thanks, I think RPI zero W would do the job.
Unfortunately, I don't like the form-factor as much as e.g. nanoPi https://www.friendlyarm.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=132

[bingo600]

I have been running two OrangePI Zero (512MB) as backup DNS/DHCP servers for 3 years now , using SanDisk Ultra SD Cards. & Armbian.
They just keep on running.
I had bad experience with OrangePi One's  they stop responding on the network after 3 weeks time.

If you're going to "wiggle" a lot of pins , i might recommend RasPI's. As their driverlibs are the most supported (tonnz of examples).
I have not have any stability issues with those too , tried 1B,2B,3B & ZeroW  - They're just more expensive than OpiZ's

Always use a good SD card , i can recommend SanDisk ULtra's  (Silver/Red) , no need to get Extreme (Gold)


As for hassle free , i'd say that NO SBC has better SW support than RasPi

/Bingo

[Doctorandus_P]

Personally I have no love for the raspberry's because of their lack of openness.
A big contrast to that, are the Olimex boards which even have full schematics and PCB layout's on github, the newer ones even in KiCad. raspi also is one of the main players keeping progress back with their 32 bit os, when most of the world has moved on to 64 bit systems (Yeah I know, as long as you stat <=4GB or RAM, 64 bit is not really mandatory)

From the little personal experience I have, there seem to be a significant difference between "no brand" uSD cards and "decent" ones. Good quality uSD cards can keep your Linux board running for years. Note that uSD cards optimized for speed is something completely different from optimized for durability. There are some exotic small manufacturers which make uSD cards with extreme durability, but their prices are also exotic.

If you have a look at:
https://wiki.debian.org/Arm64Port
Some of the recommendations are the Olimex boards, Odroid-C2, and the Pine64.

Any Linux board will run python3 (Python2 is obsolete now. (Finally)), and almost all will also have Ethernet onboard, so plenty (too much?) choice.

I have some cubie boards myself, and some beaglebones.
The Cubie boards are a bit *&^%$#@! It seems they've never gained enough popularity and momentum to keep on going. The A10 Cubie I have is mostly not supported anymore, so no updates. The Cubie A20 still seems to have support.

Beaglebones are sort of fun. You can just plug in an USB cable, then browse to it with a regular web browser, read the manual, and start programming in their "beagle script".
It was fun to see it "works", but I have no interest in beagle script. Just give me ssh, and GCC. (Although I'm dipping some toes in Python 3 now).

The Odroid boards from Hardkernel seem to be pretty popular. On their site they also have comparison data between uSD and EMMC. I like the Idea of replaceable EMMC modules.

Any board supported by Armbian will probably be fine.

On the mechanical side...
Whether stations work best outside, but outside does not work well with unprotected electronics. Protecting electronics is a mechanical engineering job, not software nor electronics.

One of the few ways to make a reliable enclosure is to use a piece of PVC pipe and glue on an "inspection cap", which has a rubber seal. You could completely seal the other side, but it will probably need wires feed through, and combination of changing relative humidity and air pressure is a tough combination. Your best option is to prevent any pressure differential from building up, while still maintaining an air tight seal. This can be done by using an plastic bag or rubber membrane inside the enclosure. Also, throwing in a bag of desiccant will never hurt and may save your hardware.

[mark03]

The Beaglebone Black (BBB) is getting pretty old at this point, but it still works, and it still runs just as fast as it did the day it was launched   The hardware is solid, it's an open design unlike the Raspberry Pis, and although SD cards *may* be ok I do like the on-board flash.  Best of all IMO are the "programmable real-time units" (PRUs) which you can use to give you the best of both worlds, bare-metal microcontroller and full-fledged Linux, all rolled together.

The biggest drawback, honestly, is mind-share.  Ever since RPi took over the world, it's a lot easier to google search and find out how to do X on a Raspberry Pi than on any other platform.  Accessories, too: If your project calls for a small touchscreen, for example, go with a Pi.  I resent this, but that's life.  The best platform does not always win (see Windows).

[Warhawk]

The Beaglebone Black (BBB) is getting pretty old at this point, but it still works, and it still runs just as fast as it did the day it was launched   The hardware is solid, it's an open design unlike the Raspberry Pis, and although SD cards *may* be ok I do like the on-board flash.  Best of all IMO are the "programmable real-time units" (PRUs) which you can use to give you the best of both worlds, bare-metal microcontroller and full-fledged Linux, all rolled together.

The biggest drawback, honestly, is mind-share.  Ever since RPi took over the world, it's a lot easier to google search and find out how to do X on a Raspberry Pi than on any other platform.  Accessories, too: If your project calls for a small touchscreen, for example, go with a Pi.  I resent this, but that's life.  The best platform does not always win (see Windows).

I actually have BBB and BB laying around. I got them for free when dumpsterdiving. The BBB runs pi-hole now. The lack of support is what bothers me. I think beaglebones are great but the SoC is "mature" and I think there's nothing going to happen.

[Warhawk]

Personally I have no love for the raspberry's because of their lack of openness.
A big contrast to that, are the Olimex boards which even have full schematics and PCB layout's on github, the newer ones even in KiCad. raspi also is one of the main players keeping progress back with their 32 bit os, when most of the world has moved on to 64 bit systems (Yeah I know, as long as you stat <=4GB or RAM, 64 bit is not really mandatory)

From the little personal experience I have, there seem to be a significant difference between "no brand" uSD cards and "decent" ones. Good quality uSD cards can keep your Linux board running for years. Note that uSD cards optimized for speed is something completely different from optimized for durability. There are some exotic small manufacturers which make uSD cards with extreme durability, but their prices are also exotic.

If you have a look at:
https://wiki.debian.org/Arm64Port
Some of the recommendations are the Olimex boards, Odroid-C2, and the Pine64.

Any Linux board will run python3 (Python2 is obsolete now. (Finally)), and almost all will also have Ethernet onboard, so plenty (too much?) choice.

I have some cubie boards myself, and some beaglebones.
The Cubie boards are a bit *&^%$#@! It seems they've never gained enough popularity and momentum to keep on going. The A10 Cubie I have is mostly not supported anymore, so no updates. The Cubie A20 still seems to have support.

Beaglebones are sort of fun. You can just plug in an USB cable, then browse to it with a regular web browser, read the manual, and start programming in their "beagle script".
It was fun to see it "works", but I have no interest in beagle script. Just give me ssh, and GCC. (Although I'm dipping some toes in Python 3 now).

The Odroid boards from Hardkernel seem to be pretty popular. On their site they also have comparison data between uSD and EMMC. I like the Idea of replaceable EMMC modules.

Any board supported by Armbian will probably be fine.

On the mechanical side...
Whether stations work best outside, but outside does not work well with unprotected electronics. Protecting electronics is a mechanical engineering job, not software nor electronics.

One of the few ways to make a reliable enclosure is to use a piece of PVC pipe and glue on an "inspection cap", which has a rubber seal. You could completely seal the other side, but it will probably need wires feed through, and combination of changing relative humidity and air pressure is a tough combination. Your best option is to prevent any pressure differential from building up, while still maintaining an air tight seal. This can be done by using an plastic bag or rubber membrane inside the enclosure. Also, throwing in a bag of desiccant will never hurt and may save your hardware.

Thanks for your great assessment and tips. I had no idea that PIs are not opensource. This helps a lot.

[chickenHeadKnob]

The Beaglebone Black (BBB) is getting pretty old at this point, but it still works, and it still runs just as fast as it did the day it was launched   The hardware is solid, it's an open design unlike the Raspberry Pis, and although SD cards *may* be ok I do like the on-board flash.  Best of all IMO are the "programmable real-time units" (PRUs) which you can use to give you the best of both worlds, bare-metal microcontroller and full-fledged Linux, all rolled together.

The biggest drawback, honestly, is mind-share.  Ever since RPi took over the world, it's a lot easier to google search and find out how to do X on a Raspberry Pi than on any other platform.  Accessories, too: If your project calls for a small touchscreen, for example, go with a Pi.  I resent this, but that's life.  The best platform does not always win (see Windows).

When you say the Beaglebone black hardware is solid I somewhat agree, but there is a known ethernet powerup sequence bug that I have experienced. This may have been corrected in later revisions, I never bothered to check. The few times it happened to me I just power cycled. google beaglebone black ethernet not working.

[jmelson]

When you say the Beaglebone black hardware is solid I somewhat agree, but there is a known ethernet powerup sequence bug that I have experienced. This may have been corrected in later revisions, I never bothered to check. The few times it happened to me I just power cycled. google beaglebone black ethernet not working.

If you don't have connection manager installed, and you power it up with no Ethernet cable connected, it disables the Ethernet port.  There are some situations where connection manager can be a pain, so I have some systems where it is removed.  If you power up with the Ethernet plugged in, then the port comes up just fine.  I have not seen any other issue with the Ethernet port, and I use a number of BBB's for various control tasks.

Jon

[Mr. Scram]

I read HASL-free. 

[wizard69]

Personally I have no love for the raspberry's because of their lack of openness.
A big contrast to that, are the Olimex boards which even have full schematics and PCB layout's on github, the newer ones even in KiCad. raspi also is one of the main players keeping progress back with their 32 bit os, when most of the world has moved on to 64 bit systems (Yeah I know, as long as you stat <=4GB or RAM, 64 bit is not really mandatory)

From the little personal experience I have, there seem to be a significant difference between "no brand" uSD cards and "decent" ones. Good quality uSD cards can keep your Linux board running for years. Note that uSD cards optimized for speed is something completely different from optimized for durability. There are some exotic small manufacturers which make uSD cards with extreme durability, but their prices are also exotic.

If you have a look at:
https://wiki.debian.org/Arm64Port
Some of the recommendations are the Olimex boards, Odroid-C2, and the Pine64.

Any Linux board will run python3 (Python2 is obsolete now. (Finally)), and almost all will also have Ethernet onboard, so plenty (too much?) choice.

I have some cubie boards myself, and some beaglebones.
The Cubie boards are a bit *&^%$#@! It seems they've never gained enough popularity and momentum to keep on going. The A10 Cubie I have is mostly not supported anymore, so no updates. The Cubie A20 still seems to have support.

Beaglebones are sort of fun. You can just plug in an USB cable, then browse to it with a regular web browser, read the manual, and start programming in their "beagle script".
It was fun to see it "works", but I have no interest in beagle script. Just give me ssh, and GCC. (Although I'm dipping some toes in Python 3 now).

The Odroid boards from Hardkernel seem to be pretty popular. On their site they also have comparison data between uSD and EMMC. I like the Idea of replaceable EMMC modules.

Any board supported by Armbian will probably be fine.

On the mechanical side...
Whether stations work best outside, but outside does not work well with unprotected electronics. Protecting electronics is a mechanical engineering job, not software nor electronics.

One of the few ways to make a reliable enclosure is to use a piece of PVC pipe and glue on an "inspection cap", which has a rubber seal. You could completely seal the other side, but it will probably need wires feed through, and combination of changing relative humidity and air pressure is a tough combination. Your best option is to prevent any pressure differential from building up, while still maintaining an air tight seal. This can be done by using an plastic bag or rubber membrane inside the enclosure. Also, throwing in a bag of desiccant will never hurt and may save your hardware.

Thanks for your great assessment and tips. I had no idea that PIs are not opensource. This helps a lot.

The hardware isn't open source per say but it does have a more or less open software stack.

Now given that I can't suggest Raspberry PI anymore as i believe the organizations leadership is misguided in sticking with a 32 bit OS.    The reality is we will see these low cost boards will have more than 4GB soon and as such it would make sense to start supporting 64 bit software now.   For your usage there may be other issues to consider.

In any event I like what Odroid has been offering of late.   I'm kinda hoping that a new variant of the C2 line comes out soon.   I'm not sure if they are more open but the forums leave me with a nice vibe when i visit

[Warhawk]

I ordered BananaPi Zero for the first experiment. Let's see.
Thanks everyone contributing here in the thread. It was educational.
Jiri

[Warhawk]

I ordered BananaPi Zero for the first experiment. Let's see.
Thanks everyone contributing here in the thread. It was educational.
Jiri

And I would not do it again. It seems that all available distros are rather unofficial.
 

[brucehoult]

In any event I like what Odroid has been offering of late.   I'm kinda hoping that a new variant of the C2 line comes out soon.   I'm not sure if they are more open but the forums leave me with a nice vibe when i visit

They already did. Quad core A55 at 2.0 GHz. Hopefully for real this time. (The C2 was originally advertised at 2.0 but subsequently reduced to 1.53 -- Hardkernel said it was Amlogic's fault)

https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-c4/

Quad A55 at 2.0, 4 GB DDR4, gigE, HDMI, 4x USB 3.0, eMMC and SD: $50

[westfw]

It seems that all available distros are rather unofficial.

My impression is that that’s pretty much the case for everything cheaper than Raspberry Pi or Beagle.
Lots of people want to build a smaller, cheaper, Linux-capable board, but very few want to support an actual Linux dist.
(But I don’t pay a lot of attention...)

[Karel]

It seems that all available distros are rather unofficial.

My impression is that that’s pretty much the case for everything cheaper than Raspberry Pi or Beagle.
Lots of people want to build a smaller, cheaper, Linux-capable board, but very few want to support an actual Linux dist.
(But I don’t pay a lot of attention...)

And that's why I stick with the Raspberry Pi. Their support, also from Debian, is unsurpassed.

[Warhawk]

It seems that all available distros are rather unofficial.

My impression is that that’s pretty much the case for everything cheaper than Raspberry Pi or Beagle.
Lots of people want to build a smaller, cheaper, Linux-capable board, but very few want to support an actual Linux dist.
(But I don’t pay a lot of attention...)

It seems that all available distros are rather unofficial.

My impression is that that’s pretty much the case for everything cheaper than Raspberry Pi or Beagle.
Lots of people want to build a smaller, cheaper, Linux-capable board, but very few want to support an actual Linux dist.
(But I don’t pay a lot of attention...)

And that's why I stick with the Raspberry Pi. Their support, also from Debian, is unsurpassed.

Well, BananaPi M2 Zero is actually more expensive than RPi Zero W. It has better features (e.g. single core vs quad core, ethernet etc.) and it claims to be open-source (which is not true, you won't get layout etc.). Armbian has community maintained distro for BananaPi M2 Zero so it is not that bad. It is super new though.
I bought it because I could net get a Rpi Zero W for decent price in Germany. Everything's been sold out.

[westfw]

It is super new though.

It’s hard to tell what “support” is going to be like for very new things.  Frequently there is a lot of initial enthusiasm, which fades away more quickly than anyone would like...


I don’t count the “low” RPi zero prices as “real”, btw.   They’re more like a “free sample” that costs money.  Try to buy 10 at a time and see what the price comes out to be...  (this is ok, I guess.  Creative, even.  But frustrating if you have need “a bunch”)