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$3-500 USD Bang for your Buck Systems. New vs Old for the workbench or home
Posted by beanflying on 18 Jul, 2019 01:37 -
Until now I have been making do with a retasked I3 HP 8300 on my bench. Recently fitted with a cheap secondhand Quadro graphics card and 8GB of memory it has been 'coping' with most demands for bench but also crashing under Fusion 360 jobs. This is getting a replacement as per another thread but this is bringing on a reshuffle of PC's in the shack and home.
What I am planning to build in this case for it is a small form factor more modern and better performing replacement for it. In my case this is heading to the house to allow me to do some CAD work in comfort and not have to struggle with my I5 Laptop which doesn't like Fusion 360 much and the tiny Atom based box I have inside is browsing and movie watching at best.
As a result of the recent AMD releases I scored a cracker deal on a last gen Ryzen 5 2400G APU (CPU with inbuilt graphics) so apart from high frame rate gaming doesn't need a graphics card. So the plan is the following BOM.
Ryzen 5 2400G
B450 I Wifi board (either MSI or Gigabyte depending on price) and will run dual monitors if needed but can be done cheaper with larger boards or even 350 series.
16GB DDR4 3200MHz memory (G.Skill was the winner on $ but prices seem to be rising)
Used FSP250-50GLV power supply because they are slimline and fairly common 250W is plenty even with adding a 1050 ti later.
NVMe SSD 250-500GB Most likely another Samsung 500GB as there is still a rebate on and some good deals.
Case DIY Laser cut - because I can. Rough maximum dimensions 200x100x300
Spec as above and allowing $30 for case bits comes out just over $400 USD
The question for others is buy a used work station for $150-300 or build a new box for the bench or bedroom?
Woody the ITX roughy.
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A Ryzen woody.......
Following.
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Interesting project just for the coolness factor...
Could there be potential problems with a wooden case, radiating EMI from the PC circuitry into the lab environment? Might be safer to design with wood cladding on an aluminum case?
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Interesting project just for the coolness factor...
Could there be potential problems with a wooden case, radiating EMI from the PC circuitry into the lab environment? Might be safer to design with wood cladding on an aluminum case?
Mine is going inside the house so a non issue with test gear. Given the trend to Glass or Plastic sided commercial cases going timber makes no real difference over them. As to Lab use and emi in or out causing potential problems
It would be easier to bond a thin copper shielding sheet (< 0.5mm) to the wood after assembly rather than tooling and machining heavier metal then cladding in timber. Or there is EMI coatings or a quick search found this product at E14
The SMPS is already metal canned and shielded and likely the largest potential source of Hash. -
I like the copper sheet shielding idea.
Apart from shielding the outside world from EMI, it also protects the PC against static zaps that could reset it at inopportune moments... (ask me how I know...) -
So far I have avoided killing off anything expensive with Static but randomly at aged 50+ I had my first static dissipative mat arrive in this mornings mail. Building a PC on a s/steel bench very carefully was the last push to purchase after telling myself I didn't need it for so long.
Also arriving today was some Stainless Mesh in a range of counts that could be used for shielding or brass is also available fairly easily. S/Steel evilbay mesh source eBay auction: #282812532973 Either glued or adhesive taped to the shell would work but I might grab a few sheets of the fabric one from E14 to play with.
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Interesting project just for the coolness factor...
Could there be potential problems with a wooden case, radiating EMI from the PC circuitry into the lab environment? Might be safer to design with wood cladding on an aluminum case?
Mine is going inside the house so a non issue with test gear. Given the trend to Glass or Plastic sided commercial cases going timber makes no real difference over them. As to Lab use and emi in or out causing potential problems
It would be easier to bond a thin copper shielding sheet (< 0.5mm) to the wood after assembly rather than tooling and machining heavier metal then cladding in timber. Or there is EMI coatings or a quick search found this product at E14
The SMPS is already metal canned and shielded and likely the largest potential source of Hash.
https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16811853065
Speaking of which; I let myself be tempted by the convenience of NOT tearing my old PC apart to build my new one... I picked this case up for $37 SHIPPED/NO-FAN option. Glass side/glass front; though I'd have preferred that the glass covered the entire front face, for that price I wasn't going to snort too loudly. I suspect that this may actually be the same chassis as my Thermaltake V200, only with a different front panel.So far I have avoided killing off anything expensive with Static but randomly at aged 50+ I had my first static dissipative mat arrive in this mornings mail. Building a PC on a s/steel bench very carefully was the last push to purchase after telling myself I didn't need it for so long.
Also arriving today was some Stainless Mesh in a range of counts that could be used for shielding or brass is also available fairly easily. S/Steel evilbay mesh source eBay auction: #282812532973 Either glued or adhesive taped to the shell would work but I might grab a few sheets of the fabric one from E14 to play with.
Mmmmhmmmm... the 8 mesh SS hardware cloth that vendor has looks pimp; and big enough pieces to use for automotive customizing.
mnem
*toddling off to ded*
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16GB DDR4 3200MHz memory (G.Skill was the winner on $ but prices seem to be rising)
your ITX can not go with ECC Ram, correct? -
Could there be potential problems with a wooden case, radiating EMI from the PC circuitry into the lab environment? Might be safer to design with wood cladding on an aluminum case?
I have since 2012 a hand made wood PC ATX format in my EE Lab. Designed to be silent, everything is planar. Only one fan on the biggest CPU cooler (no space limitation for me....) I could find on the market.
It has no shielding at all, so far no problem. Maybe when I will do some metrology stuff I will noticed something. Who knows...
In theory the EMC risk is there, but I had so far no problems experienced or noiticed. Maybe I have an EMC problem but I don't see it...
I should fire up my SA and take some measurements... It could be interesting. Time to buy an antenna for it, any suggestions for a RigLOL DSA815-TG? Basically 1.5 GHz with N-Male connector. -
16GB DDR4 3200MHz memory (G.Skill was the winner on $ but prices seem to be rising)
your ITX can not go with ECC Ram, correct?
The Gigabyte supports ECC but speed is king to keep the APU running at higher frame rates from everything I have read or seen so Non ECC makes sense not to mention the $$. Not that I am a fan of over clocking I will most likely have a play with Memory speed before I get into serious use with the setup to see what it will remain stable at. The MSI doesn't mention in the spec page but might in the manual?
Gigabyte B450 I WiFi
MSI B450 I Gaming -
Got a couple of these sets recently (type 7) and they resold like hot cakes............Could there be potential problems with a wooden case, radiating EMI from the PC circuitry into the lab environment? Might be safer to design with wood cladding on an aluminum case?
I have since 2012 a hand made wood PC ATX format in my EE Lab. Designed to be silent, everything is planar. Only one fan on the biggest CPU cooler (no space limitation for me....) I could find on the market.
It has no shielding at all, so far no problem. Maybe when I will do some metrology stuff I will noticed something. Who knows...
In theory the EMC risk is there, but I had so far no problems experienced or noiticed. Maybe I have an EMC problem but I don't see it...
I should fire up my SA and take some measurements... It could be interesting. Time to buy an antenna for it, any suggestions for a RigLOL DSA815-TG? Basically 1.5 GHz with N-Male connector.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33029566295.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.33e84c4d1f2e25 -
Got a couple of these sets recently (type 7) and they resold like hot cakes............
Did you do anything checking to see whether they're any good?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33029566295.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.33e84c4d1f2e25 -
R5 3600 -- $200
Cooler -- included
AsRock B450 -- $75
TEAM Delta DDR4 2666 CL15 8GB*2 -- $64
CORN RX560 -- $80
WD SN500 500GB -- $65
Thermaltake Smart 500W -- $40
Chassis -- your own creation
Sub: $524, everything from Amazon, way faster than your current system.
In my case I am heading for small form of about 6L compared with a lot more when you add a card or a huge step up in case $ if you buy a commercial one to suit a right angle card. Given the quick SiSoft tests I ran today in my new $1k bench box the 2400G will more than cope with what I need in the house.
Storage wise I am going to go NVMe and a Crucial 500Gb I can get locally for $51USD +tax to my door. More speed than the SATA in your list and way more than needed for this one. This alone drops $40USD off the price from the Samsung 250Gb 970 plus.
I could forget about the ITX boards and drop another $70USD or even go lower and go back to 350 boards and save some more but it doesn't suit me.
This is form over function to a degree but also on a budget. -
Got a couple of these sets recently (type 7) and they resold like hot cakes............
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33029566295.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.33e84c4d1f2e25
Thanks looks interesting, I have the same questions as Scram.
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In my case I am heading for small form of about 6L compared with a lot more when you add a card or a huge step up in case $ if you buy a commercial one to suit a right angle card.
Ah, I see. Your chassis is quite compact!
The other option I decided against was a powerbrick and an extra internal voltage converter. The upside of this would be a case of 3-4L but powerbricks on a fixed system are a bit of ugly laying on the floor. Power budget without a GPU would be under 150W (more like <120W) so the brick option might suit others with the 2400G.
Part of the reason to go for the slightly overkill 250W is I might decide I want to add a card for a bit more gaming punch and there is enough head room for a GTX 1050 then wrap a new case around the rest sometime later. -
Just need a power supply now (arriving Monday) and to finish up the case detail drawings and cutting.
Also ran across the tiny UDOO Bolt based on an AMD APU which while not price competitive it is fairly cool for it's Arduino/I2C ports etc.....
https://www.udoo.org/udoo-bolt/
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Case Cad time now all the bits are here. Power supply will be getting a mod to rout the wires through the top instead of the side as stock and also upgrading the 4pin power to 8 pin not that it is really needed with the Ryzen but just for my seldom seen compulsive obsessive side. A4 sheet of paper under it for scale and to stop it marking up the slightly tacky new bench finish.
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It seems like even a low power 1U rack server PSU is massive for that build? Too bad there's not much demand for 250W PSUs with power densities approaching that of the bigger rack server PSUs, since I can really see there being a substantial space savings.
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Yep 150W would have done it but the only 1U supplies I had were 100W which is really tight at full load for the 2400G. External brick and power converters as I mentioned earlier I looked at but decided I wanted it all in one.
Costs on the smaller ones locally tended to be higher and were more scarce so I brought a pair of these for well about $17USD each delivered from not far away from me.
There is maybe a benefit later if I want to drop a small Graphics card into the rest of the bits the Supply will cope with most of them (1050-1060'ish). I have already got an idea for a case to suit with a vertical GPU
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Got a sample pack of Plywoods to make my Woody Case from. Eucalypt with a Beeswax/Orange Oil finish looks about the correct colour for this job. Looked at the Jarrah but it is a bit to dark unless it was clear coated.
Lots of Ply options to play with from Plyco for the Ozzies https://plyco.com.au/
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Mate, I see what you are doing, but I have an idea.
Some time ago I saw a case that I like a lot, not by being practical but by being beautiful:
This kind of case is basically a metal sheet, folded in a way to resemble a monolith were you apply your hardware as show piece. Yes it's not practical because it's fully open, no protection to the hardware itself and forget any kind of airflow channels, since it doesn't have a way to contain itself by being totally open.
Can't you using the same principle, have a metal skeleton the same way and just apply the exterior in wood as you want to do? For what I see is basically making the measurements bigger to fit your motherboard/gpu/hdd solution footprint, stick some round inside threaded rods and fix on the end the wood parts you want.
That way you have not a problem with lack of earth in the components itself while fitting the design you propose. In my case I would to something like this with all sides glass, with spacing for fan mounting and breeding. It would suit very well near the type of equipment that we EEs love to use and show, as I've saw in this forum over and over again (and drool over and over again).
Probably you already accounted for that, and if yes then I'm sorry for this post, just regard it as off topic or trash talk. And probably go way above your own bang for your buck price you stated here.
Although I will be looking for your solution. -
The Dust Bunnies and Australian Death Spiders would love it not to mention performance on a 30-40C day with poor cooling
Small form factor builds have been interesting to look at some of the other options out there.
Nothing Off Topic about it I only started this topic as a place to talk about lower priced builds not just mine. -
As I start adding some detail to my case this came across my Youtube Feed. Custom homemade case comes complete with HUGE personality
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How are you going to make these round corners?
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How are you going to make these round corners?
Because Lasers are cool