Calling all Windows 7 users - RESOLVED (thank you)

[SteveThackery]

Colleagues!

I'm really struggling to enjoy W11, so I am sorely tempted to try going back to W7, which is my favourite version of Windows (and my favourite OS ever).

I think I might fail, though. I use the Community Editions of Visual Studio and Delphi. As far as I know, there are no earlier versions of those tools available, and I don't think the current versions of either will install on W7. Also I would need to find an older version of Paint Shop Pro (which is a good thing: it's become horribly bloated), and a W7-compatible office suite as well. Not LibreOffice, though!

Does W7 support virtual desktops? Also I would need an email client and a Web browser. I use WhatsApp, but I can't imagine there's a version that will run on W7. Oh, and Dropbox: is anyone using Dropbox on W7? Also on my list would be a video editor, a sound editor, a compatible PCB CAD program (Kicad was pretty primitive back then), and some way of programming Arduinos.

As I think about this, the more difficult it feels. After all, W7 was superseded by W8 14 years ago. Finding compatible applications might be pretty tough.

How do you deal with this stuff on your Windows 7 PC?

[themadhippy]

maybe a crazy idea ,but hows about a virtual win 7 machine first to let you experiment with what will and wont work before fully committing

[Sensorcat]

My Windows 7 is a boot option on my Linux PC. I boot it whenever I need one of several legacy software packages which are either not available on later versions, for which I do not have a license for later versions, or which changed in a way I don't like. The use of this boot option becomes less frequent as I see Linux as my primary system. The third boot option is Win 11, which I also do not like much and use it only if I have to. For instance, the RAW image converter the manufacturer of my camera supplied.

Btw, LibreOffice is available for Windows 7, but you clearly feel that it is old. Has improved much since then.

[steve30]

I've been using a Windows 7 Thinkpad since 2021. Works nicely, although a much newer Debian machine is my main machine.

Its still using whatever version of Vivaldi browser was current a few years ago, and it still works for most things. I've been informed that MyPal and Basilisk are two options for Windows 7/XP but I still haven't got round to trying them out yet.

Microsoft Office 2000 works well on Windows 7, so I expect the newer versions do as well. Adobe Creative Suite works nicely. Kdenlive 22.04 works although its a bit iffy. Avidemux and ffmpeg work fine but I can't remember which versions I have installed.

What machine do you intend to run Win 7 on? I'm got it running on a 2nd gen i5, on which it works perfectly, but my 8th gen i5 is too new - IIRC there are no drivers for the USB interface so you can load the installer but you can't interact with it due to the keyboard/mouse not working.

Do consult forum user MrMobodies as he is our resident expert on making Windows 10 usable (don't know if he's done 11 yet).

[steve30]

Who needs AI when you have WordArt, Comic Sans, and Clipit? 

[MarkF]

My daily driver is Windows 7.

I don't know if you can still get the versions of the software that you're interested in.
What I run are the professional versions which I'm unable give you (sorry).
They are:
  Photoshop 7.0, Visual Studio 2013, MS Office 2007, Google Chrome

Software you can still download for Win7:
  FreeOffice, Mozilla Thunderbird email, DipTrace for small PCBs, Arduino Legacy IDE 1.8.19,
  FreeCAD 0.21.2, PrusaSlicer

I believe VS Code is still available for coding but I don't care much for it.

[SteveThackery]

maybe a crazy idea ,but hows about a virtual win 7 machine first to let you experiment with what will and wont work before fully committing

Not a crazy idea at all - I agree that a VM is the right way to go for now. Once I'm happy with it (if, I should say) I'll build it as a physical computer.

[Analog Kid]

Another very satisfied Windoze 7 user here (which I think you already know).
Win7 Pro 64-bit here, bought on eBay (totally legit copy).

Sorry, can't help you with some of your more technical issues like virtual desktops.

I use Opera for web, Mozilla Thunderbird for an email client.
Other than that, my software is a pastiche of something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue.
I still get along fine with the copy of Paint Shop Pro that I used with Windoze 2000.
Corel Draw12.
Most other software is stuff I downloaded free from the intertubes.
Most things I need still work with Win7.

[5U4GB]

I think I might fail, though. I use the Community Editions of Visual Studio and Delphi. As far as I know, there are no earlier versions of those tools available, and I don't think the current versions of either will install on W7. Also I would need to find an older version of Paint Shop Pro (which is a good thing: it's become horribly bloated), and a W7-compatible office suite as well.

You can still get old versions of VS online, I'm running VS2008 (official MS download link) which seems to be the best tradeoff between relatively modern features and not collapsing under the bloat of roughly post-2015 versions.  And Office 2007, which works just fine and you can disable at least some of the ribbon crap.

[thephil]

Not really a Windows user myself, but there are some tips online on how to make Win11 act more like Win7. E.g. here.

If you find enough settings to feel at home again that would be the best of both worlds – Win7 feeling but up to date security and applications.

[5U4GB]

If your main concern is the UI look, use Start11 and WindowBlinds.  I once had an amusing incident where I was visiting Microsoft and a Microsoft guy was looking over my shoulder as I was getting ready for a talk and after awhile asked what the OS was.  The complete lack of Windows 10-like enshittification had him confused.

[SteveThackery]

If your main concern is the UI look, use Start11 and WindowBlinds. 

I've been a massive fan of Start11 since it came out, years ago. In fact, that is one potential issue: the W7 Start menu is very limited compared with the Start11 Start menu I'm using now. Unfortunately it isn't possible to recreate my current Start menu on a W7 machine. The W7 Start menu is the one aspect of W7 that I'm not keen on.

It's a long time since I experimented with WindowBlinds. My memory is that it is inconsistent: some Windows allow themselves to be reskinned, but some don't (MS Office might be one?), so you end up with a mixture of window styles on the screen. I wonder if that is still an issue.

[5U4GB]

There are a small number of programs that you'll have to add to an exception list, but most things work OK.

[madires]

I'd suggest to run Windows 7 in a VM anyway to avoid driver problems with newer PC hardware. AFAIK, Firefox ESR will support Windows 7 until March next year. Therefore it makes sense to go for an alternative like Palemoon.

[MarkF]

Might I suggest that unless you're dead set on Windows 7, that you split the
difference and go with Windows 10.  On my other laptop, I have been able to
turn off most of the unwanted garbage and make it look very similar to
Windows 7 with the tiles on the START menu.

All of the old software I run on Windows 7 still runs on Windows 10.
And you will be able to more easily run the newer versions.

Windows 10 would be a good compromise from what I understand you want.

[Bicurico]

I’ve been dealing quite a lot with Windows 7 recently, as it is one of the supported guests in VAXD-VM.

For legacy software and dedicated/offline machines, I can certainly understand why people still use it. It is lightweight, familiar and a lot of older engineering/test software works perfectly well on it.

However, I would no longer recommend Windows 7 as a general-purpose, Internet-connected PC. Microsoft support ended years ago, current browser support is increasingly limited, and you start running into TLS/root-certificate, driver and application compatibility problems with modern software and online services.

The browser situation alone is becoming a significant limitation.

Personally, I don’t find Windows 11 nearly as bad as it is sometimes portrayed. Most of the UI annoyances can be changed, including restoring a more Windows-10-like context menu, while underneath you still have a currently supported OS.

So for me:

Windows 7: excellent legacy/offline OS.

Windows 11: much more sensible for a machine that actually has to live on the modern Internet.

Ironically, working on Win7 support in a VM has probably made me less inclined to run it on real hardware.

[IanB]

Colleagues!

I'm really struggling to enjoy W11, so I am sorely tempted to try going back to W7, which is my favourite version of Windows (and my favourite OS ever).

Rather than trying to go to W7 (which will be hard), I would in your position be considering modern alternatives like Mac or Linux.

It is one thing to keep a legacy W7 system going, but quite another to set one up from scratch.

The main impediment in your case would be coding and software development tools, where you would have to be open to change.

[BrianHG]

Supermium web browser is a minimal latest google Chrome port which will install in Win7.
You can browse modern secure sites properly unlike old ESR versions of Firefox.

Also, go here: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/wdsi/defenderupdates (Once a week or once a month.  It appears to do nothing, but you will see in the SE control panel the updated definitions.)

And manually download the 64bit security essentials to keep your Microsoft security essentials up to date with the latest virus definitions.  (Note it will detect 2 malware tools inside Supermium, one in the installer and one in the app.  These are tools to tell other PC on the web when browsing that you are not a Win7 machine, so those websites who ban functionality on old OSs will still function.  Basically they make your OS lie to websites you are connecting to using Supermium.)

[BrianHG]

I've been using Win11 PRO for ~6 weeks now.  I've finally fully flushed and tamed it, but it still eats more resources than a Win7, but, I've gotten past my complaint period and settled with a setup which works for me.

Yes, my plan is to go Linux, or maybe Mac as their latest M5-Ultra looks really good for local AI my pro needs and the M6 looks great for day-to-day desktop use.

[SteveThackery]

Thank you, thank you, everyone! You've made some great suggestions, and also pointed out a number of issues.

If I decide to go back to W7 for my daily driver it would mean reverting to old versions of my apps, and that is likely to lead to compatibility issues with all the stuff I've produced since W7. That's a bit of a show-stopper for my Delphi work: I wouldn't be able to build any of my more recent apps, which rely on the latest versions of various 3rd party components. Also, I like using VisualMicro for developing Arduino stuff, and again, I'd have to give that one up.

I think I could dig up a suitable office suite, graphics editor and audio editor. Probably a video editor as well. However, they would all require that I eschew the various advancements and improvements that I've come to take for granted. Thank you to those who suggested what email and Web clients to use, plus the advice about security software - much appreciated.

So it boils down to this: I very much like modern-day Windows apps; I think the range, the choice, and the quality are generally excellent. But I don't like modern day Windows. The conundrum is that if I go backwards in time with the OS, then for compatibility reasons I'll mostly have to go back in time with my apps, as well. In general I cannot expect to use the latest applications on a 15-year-old operating system.

I've made a decision: because of the issues that have been raised, I am not going to dump W11 and install W7 on my daily driver. Instead I'm going to build W7 in a virtual machine, and then in slow time see if I can put together a suitable set of applications.

As a result I'm going to mark this thread as "Resolved", although of course it won't be closed to further posts if anyone has something they wish to add.

I also want to say a big "thank you" again to everyone who has contributed.