HP does it again: bricking third-party ink

[shapirus]

Exemptions (mostly in business environments):
- alarming/logging
- authentication

Agreed. Some configurations may involve this.

- sending scans to a specific destination, e.g. local email

We talked about printers, not scanners or MFDs .

[madires]

Video rant from Louis Rossmann: Dynamic security secures your money into HP's pockets (https://odysee.com/@rossmanngroup:a/dynamic-security-secures-your-money-into:a)

[james_s]

It will secure their printers into the dumpster and my future money into some other company's pockets.

[MrMobodies]

b

Exemptions (mostly in business environments):
- alarming/logging
- authentication
- sending scans to a specific destination, e.g. local email

I just checked the manual difference between the 8020 and 8020e plus model and even with all their demands met it seems you are right:

HP PLUS printers.
Basically they are full of shit.

No scan to memory device either.

Scan to network folder. I can't believe they have not got this basic useful feature that does not require, broadband, (connection to hp as it would) an account, and an Amazon AWS to scan, a stupid "app" called the HP "SMART" app that depends on a phone/tablet, it's battery, operating system changes and HP's willingness to continue support any change in the future.

Scan to network folder just needs a fileserver or network shared folder, "touch a button on the printer" foldername, click shortcut and there it is.
So they removed this feature and are using all these fancy buzzwords names, HP+ enhanced, improvement, dynamic this and that, "smarter app", reliable, easier, touch of a button etc and they remove something that was at the touch of a button and make the marketing look prettier.

HP User Guide OfficeJet Pro 8020 series (STANDARD/NON HP+)
http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c06291141.pdf

HP+ (PLUS) User Guide HP OfficeJet Pro 8020E SERIES
http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c06940368.pdf


What use to be optional (HP PLUS) OR HP+ has now been embedded in the printers firmware in certain identical models marketed in such a way to confuse the buyer into buying the HP PLUS models which deprive and restrict them of  functions they'd usually have with printers before or the standard model.

Look what I found:
https://www.reddit.com/r/printers/comments/et4cf2/hp_officejet_pro_8025_scan_to_network_folder/

Posted by
u/jtbis
3 years ago contact the person who set up the printer."

HP Officejet Pro 8025 scan to network folder
On my previous printer (OJ 8710), I was able to scan directly from the printer to a Windows network folder. On my new printer, that option doesn't show up under the scan menu. When I go to the "scan" tab in the Web UI, I get "You cannot use this function because it has been disabled. For more information,

I bet they have got the e model.

Search Google "HP Officejet Pro 8025" -> shopping
and the search is full of these "e" models.
See attachment.

Good that Google shopping has a "Best match" that actually works and shows the relevant item.

In other words HP+ or (e) models are just locked down printers.

[Peabody]

Are all printer manufacturers as bad as HP?  Including Brother?  Cause if they aren't, why would anyone ever buy an HP printer ever again?

[james_s]

Name recognition? I bought my HP printer because I'd had good experience with them in the past, and mine is fine too, but it's pre-"e".

Brother was always one I avoided because at the time at least the toner they use didn't work well with toner transfer PCB etching.

[SiliconWizard]

Obviously first thing is to again avoid inkjet printers. The whole business model of inkjet printers has *always* revolved around the same thing, and it's making profit with ink.
You will almost never find any inkjet printer on the market without this crap, except maybe for the most expensive ones with rechargeable ink reservoirs.

It has also spread to laser printers as printers cost has plumetted. A $100 or less laser printer? You really think it's going to make vendors any money? They'll get it from toner.

Your best bet is to target pro or semi-pro gear these days. It will be more expensive obviously, but over the life of the printer, not so much. I would avoid HP these days even in their "pro" lines and go with something like Xerox. Brother wasn't too bad, but from what I've seen, quality has gone downhill, I would stay away now.

[MrMobodies]

I forgot to mention. I was give this Brother MFC-J5910DW printer. It can print A3 but only A4 scan.
There is a glitch with it that when wifi is switched on, the ethernet stops working and even after disabling the wifi until factory resetting it. Some days after I got it and discovered the issue the owner already brought a new one.

What I noticed about these cartridges is that I can't see any electrical contacts.
They have this glass window.

So it looks like a light sensor/receiver is used to detect the ink levels through the glass.
I don't think I have seen a cartridge like this before.

I don't use it often but only when I want to print quality stuff out and it has been quite reliable everytime I use it.

I also have a QL820NW printer with battery that still works and a PT-E550WVP that I got in 2018 and both still work without problems. What I like about the PT-E550WVP is that even thought it comes with a lithium battery it also has contacts in the same place for AA batteries. They also use the Pt touch software and very flexible.

I remembered this Brother printer in a college once back in 2010. It was used for printing test results and would go through many boxes of paper in a week. Sometimes a part used to break inside. I can't remember what part but when the toner ran out they found it cheaper and quicker to print to the Canon photocopier upstairs when I connected it up. They'd go upstairs and it would be finished and stapled up. I think it was a Canon IR-3045. Scanning on that was really good, 2 seconds to scan a something in a3 using the network Scangear tool.

Speaking of ENTRAPMENT:
https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Printer-Setup-Software-Drivers/Disable-regret-HP-printer/td-p/8269413

Netnissen ‎01-12-2022 06:06 AM Product: HP Officejet 8014e
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 (64-Bit)
Hi all.
During setup of my printer, an HP Officejet 8014e, I regrettable and without actually reading the disclaimer I accepted the HP+, and instant Ink. 
I have never used any of the services, or Ink. But now I have found, that by accepting HP+ (* A HP+ PRINTER), I can ONLY use HP original Ink cartridges.
I regret so terrible that I did not investigate further, what HP+ was.
My question, is there a way to get out of the HP+ "program", so as I can use "compatible"  Ink cartridges, not from HP ?

01-29-2022 06:19 PM
I have been informed from HP, that in printer registered as HP+, its impossible to revert this decision  .
This is very disappointing, and to me it feels like entrapment of customers into only using original ink cartridges.

At first I was simply informed that this was the way it is.
But as I found the following statement on HP's homepage :

"There’s no added cost to sign up for HP+. You just need to own a supported HP printer and use genuine HP ink or toner. Plus, if you decide you aren’t delighted with HP+, you can change, pause, or cancel it at any time at no cost."

Pursuing this statement, HP was willing to supply me with a new printer.
When this is received, I will under NO circumstance register it, and in the future keep a LONG way from HP+.

All of this being said, I prefer using genuine HP ink cartridges. But sometimes, when on a low budget month, I will have to buy the compatible ones, and I this its very unprofessional business from HP, trying to force consumer into using original  ink ALL the time, not having the possibility of printing with other products.
I will close this Post, but how that someone will find my story useful, and not register as HP+ if copy compatible Ink are to be used with there printers.
I would also hope HP, would remove this "LOCK" in the future, and rely on costumers to buy the HP quality, instead of forcing consumers into using there products.

Now I find this bit is interesting:

Repairatrooper ‎01-29-2022 07:04 PM
An E series product requires HP  + to even function. It is labelled right on the box and if you had not accepted you would not be able to use the printer.

Netnissen 01-30-2022 03:16 AM
Hej Repairatrooper. ‎
Now I just checked my own box of my e printer.
It states intended, not required.
In my book intended is still an option. So I if printer will not work at all, without having HP+ accepted, again this shows me that HP is performing entrapment.
I guess its Canon for me next time !!!

Repairatrooper ‎01-30-2022 11:08 AM
Sorry for the misinformation in my previous post, HP+ is optional and I would agree that it is somewhat restrictive that there is no method to correct a wrong choice made during setup.  That said, the E model numbers are restricted to using HP OEM or refilled HP cartridges, either way the cartridge must contain un-modified OEM circuitry.

So HP confuse the HP+ addon that's available for any other printer with the HP+/e series. I think I know what "e" stands for now after comparing the manuals. e=embedded but I think in this case calling it entrapment is very well fitting.

Joke: HP's new Officejet 8010 entrapment series printers.
The new HP way. Entrapment using a play on words and deception.

Why are they even called "HP+" to begin with when it is more like "HP-" where you loose features.

[Peabody]

What I noticed about these cartridges is that I can't see any electrical contacts.
They have this glass window.
So it looks like a light sensor/receiver is used to detect the ink levels through the glass.
I don't think I have seen a cartridge like this before.

My Brother printer has cartridges like that.  There's a little float flag that drops out of the way when the ink level drops, and a light sensor detects that.  But I noticed that the printer would shut down way too soon because you were "out of ink", so that a lot of ink was left in the old cartridge when you had to put in a new one.  The solution is to cut out a piece of black electrical tape and cover that window.  Then printing will continue until the ink actually runs out.  I just install that tape on all four cartridges when they are new.

[MrMobodies]

Thanks you, there is some left in there.
At least that removes the incentives of what is being done here.


Dynamic security secures your money into HP's pockets
Louis Rossmann 1.76M subscribers 48K views  1 day ago

Youtube Transcript:

1:37 let's just go over what HP has to say about it so these printers use
something called Dynamic security Dynamic security relies on the printer's ability to
communicate with the security chips or electronic circuitry on the cartridges HP uses
Dynamic security measures to protect the quality of the customer experience maintain the
Integrity of our printing systems and * protect their intellectual property
Dynamic security equipped to printers are intended to work only with
cartridges that have new or reused HP chips or electronic circuitry the
printers that use the dynamic security measures to block cartridges using
non-hp chips or modified or non-hp electronic circuitry reused.

* So they are using copyright as an excuse.
In that case if they care about the printer so much in this way whether it is new or out of warranty that didn't come with Dynamic Security then they should buy the printers back as some had been mentioning in the comment feed.

Above statement found here too:
https://borncity.com/win/2022/09/10/hp-neue-druckersperren-euroconsumer-vergleich-erreicht-entschdigung-fr-verbraucher/

They seem to have listened to "customer experience" at some point 2016 and reversed it and I read they provided updates to undo it. Now they are pretending the quality of the customer experience by ignoring and not listening.

I came across this printer many years ago. It belonged to someone as a spare never opened. Their printer broke down so they asked me to set it up.
I took it about the box, it looked really nice and compact large screen but when I switched it on the and horrors. They ruined it.

They put these distracting annoy things, I think there were large tiles to games or something on the top always stuck there and they made the icons that do matter at the bottom smaller and removed the labels. I couldn't find a way to hide them.
I think of it as the most stupid printer I have ever come across.

I just found what it is: HP Photosmart 7520 e-All-in-One Printer series (about 2013)
E model: Surprise surprise.

I said to her, what the hell are games doing on a printer and pushed in front of the main screen. This is insane and beyond stupid. No printer should have games on it it's job is to print. Not spam the user with unwanted things.

I told the lady to take it back. She could as it was over a couple of years old and no receipt.
Apparently they were not games but they did look like it to me:


Actually I found some with labels on the top and bottom
https://www.druckerchannel.de/device_info.php?ID=3648&t=hp_photosmart_7520

I don't remember there being labels on the icons on the home screen with the one I looked at (which I thought was very stupid) and even after touching the screen or maybe it was put on later through the the firmware or maybe I simply forgot. I did remember getting very angry at the stupidity that I had to face trying to read the manual and check around for solutions to get rid of the e-app things before I called the lady up to show her the problems and suggested she took it back for a refund.

Complaints about it:
https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Mobile-Printing-Cloud-Printing/HP-Photosmart-7520-How-to-remove-all-eprint-icons/td-p/2336853
HP Photosmart 7520 - How to remove all eprint icons

‎7520usr New member 01-16-2013 02:02 PM

Greetings,

Just bought a Photosmart 7520 to my father. He finds screen touch eprint icons too distracting. He is not too keen on eprint services and these icons add complexity to the printer user interface. Is it possible to remove them from the main menu?

I tried eprintcenter, could manage to remove some eprint services that were added during firmware update but Google, Dreamwork and some hp eprint services are still present

Thanks

Garytech1 level 10 ‎01-17-2013 02:54 PM

No you will not be able to completely remove all the ePrint apps  that show up on the front panel of your printer. There are a few that will stay along with the get more apps option .

7520usr New member ‎01-18-2013 01:02 AM
Thanks garytech1, i guess that it would have been nice being able to swap the first and second button row.

The first button row (preferences, ink levels, ...) is quite narrow and prone to mistakenly push a thumb sized pocoyo eprint service .

Sekwof New member ‎10-19-2013 07:10 PM
Yes the icons for unwanted apps do mess up the screen with unneeded complexity. Take a lesson from Google! *They work hard to streamline their interface. Users do not need more distractions, features, bell and whistles. It's just clutter. I was hoping I wouldn't have to take an hour of my time to remove these icons one at a time. It looks like hp just wants us to use up those print cartridges with extraneous nonsense

BristolPete1 Level 2 ‎12-02-2014 04:27 PM
Do you realise that childish icons for Airfix etc make what is a good product look a bit of a joke when it comes to being a serious printer. A bit like putting fluffy dice in a Porche.

No problem with having them there but someone was having a bad day when they signed it off with no removal protocols.

Emily77 New member ‎05-17-2015 05:09 PM
So the answer from Garytech1 is that they cannot be removed but options are to get more???

Bboytrife New member ‎11-26-2015 03:24 PM
I want to remove the silly apps from the home screen.

macthrift New member ‎05-12-2016 10:14 AM
How can I remove the unwanted icons on the

Joke: Oh they listened alright. I bet the same design team who designed that are still there today in power behind all this HP+ locked down, e-printer and cartridge bricking nonsense. They didn't listen then to complaints about that printer and now they are not listening at all unless they are forced to.

So on that model in 2013 they ENTRAP the user with unwanted promotional things that gets in the way of printing tasks and frustrates the user.
Now they do it to everything else and the "stupid" apps have been set to take over.

Users are very stupid but we have an "app for that" it is called the "smart app"
Want to print, "Smart app"
Want to scan "Smart app"
Want to email "Smart app"
Because you are stupid you need something that says "smart" to do stuff for you.

I imagine soon they'll stop releasing their standard printers once they got most of their customers entrapped on their "E" ENTRAPMENT models and HP+ nonsense.

Datasheet:
https://arbikas.com/pub/media/files/CZ045A-:-HPP7520-specs.pdf

Photosmart 7520 e-All-in-One Printer
Get *HP's premier home printing experience for superb versatility and photo
quality. Print, copy, scan to e-mail,3 fax, and access Web content4 with the
color touchscreen. HP ePrint—print from your smartphone or tablet from
virtually anywhere.2

Cambridge dictionary:

versatility noun [ U ] uk / ˌvɜː.səˈtɪl.ə.ti / us / ˌvɝː.səˈtɪl.ə.t̬i / the quality of being versatile (= able to change easily or to be used for different purposes)

Well they call it "superb versatility" and the users can't turn the e-print apps off.

Expand your home printing horizons
• Print documents and photos, make copies and scans, send
faxes, access the Web,4 and print on the go.2

Very ambiguous. "on the go" can mean can also mean at home.

Small print:

2 Requires an Internet connection to the printer

Looks like this nonsense started out in 2013 on this printer.

[Zucca]

Just for reference and because it fits here

full story

[MrMobodies]

Relating to: 7:06 in the video

https://www.eff.org/cases/lexmark-v-static-control-case-archive#:~:text=The Sixth Circuit ruled in,software through other open interfaces.

Why did Lexmark lose its lawsuit?
The Sixth Circuit ruled in favor of SCC holding that (1) some of the Lexmark software was insufficiently creative to deserve copyright protectio and (2) the authentication handshake did not effectively protect the software because printer owners could directly access the software through other open interfaces.

So with these "e" models it looks like HP was creative and took care of the "other open interfaces" by restricting it through their stupid "smart app".

I can see how Louise Rossman is right when about the race to the bottom and buying the cheapest.

I remember many years ago I gave away a HP 3390 printer that I had for a few years to a friend.
the genuine cartridges were I think nearly £90 or so but lasted quite well.

After I gave it away the prices went up and up. I use order print cartridges for this friend and they'd pay me back as they didn't want to be bothered with ordering stuff online. I had two places I'd get them from where they were selling at similar prices, I think it was Ebuyer or Scan. So in 2014 it went up to £110, in 2015 £130 (he complained a bit at that point), in 2017 £180. He said he was going to down the road to an ink refill shop and for £40 they took his old cartridge and gave him a refurbished one that they refilled and no problems since.

I'd expect it to be much more than that as £40 seems very cheap for it but I just don't know where the middleground is between cheap or what is reasonable pricing to the prices that cartridge type had gone up tpp.