I found an Apple speech-to-text bug!

[Circlotron]

If I say "This house is 10 metres square"
it produces the text
"This house is 10 m²"
which is correct.

If I say "This house is 10 square metres"
it again produces the text
"This house is 10 m²"
which is incorrect.

iOS 12.5.1 on iPhone 6.

[Rerouter]

For the average person, why would that be considered a bug? as both seem to equate to the same thing?

[Psi]

It's not very common to say "This house is 10 metres square" and mean that the house is 10meters long and 10meter wide.

[wraper]

Why/how second variant is supposedly incorrect? If anything, the first variant is odd.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_metre

The square metre (international spelling as used by the International Bureau of Weights and Measures) or square meter (American spelling) is the SI derived unit of area with symbol m².

[Circlotron]

To me, 10 square metres is as it sounds but 10 metres square is 10x10 metres i.e. 100 square metres.

[wraper]

To me, 10 square metres is as it sounds but 10 metres square is 10x10 metres i.e. 100 square metres.

Then why you wrote?

If I say "This house is 10 metres square"
it produces the text
"This house is 10 m²"
which is correct.

[JohnnyMalaria]

Most people consider "x square whatevers" to mean x of the unit of area obtained by multiplying two measurements of whatever together.

e.g., "the search continues in 500,000 square miles of ocean".

In Imperial/British units, it's also common to use abbreviations like sq. ft. for square feet, not ft. sq. for feet square.

[nali]

but 10 metres square is 10x10 metres i.e. 100 square metres.

Now you're contradicting your OP...

If I say "This house is 10 metres square"
it produces the text
"This house is 10 m²"
which is correct.

Maybe the service heard or assumed you said squared not square? After all there's not a great deal between them phonetically.

[GlennSprigg]

I USED to love 'Evi' on my Android Phone. You could ask it anything, (even with an 'Aussie' accent!! haha...), and it understood
everything perfectly. Then it CHANGED, after M.S. took it over, and replaced the 'Engine' with it's own CRAP!  After that, it
NEVER worked properly AGAIN!!!  Argghh....  I think it's gone now, but beat Apple's iPhone hands down for a while!!!   

[Brumby]

If I say "This house is 10 metres square"
it produces the text
"This house is 10 m²"
which is correct.

I disagree, vehemently.  The use of the exponent of two here relates to the unit, NOT the value.

For it to be correct, it should be presented as (10 m)²

If I say "This house is 10 square metres"
it again produces the text
"This house is 10 m²"
which is incorrect.

Again, I disagree, vehemently.

The statement makes reference to a value of 10 of units which are square metres m²



Mind you, it is a stupidly small house.   

[Circlotron]

Are you saying that "10 metres square" and "10 square metres" are the same thing?

[JohnnyMalaria]

Are you saying that "10 metres square" and "10 square metres" are the same thing?

Most people probably would. I'd never say "10 metres square" though I understand it could mean 10 meters by 10 meters. If I saw it written as 10m2, then there'd be no ambiguity in my mind. I rarely hear anyone say "meters square" anyway. Just like I've never heard anyone say "foot linear" or "inches cube".

But, I'm a scientist and deal in SI units most of the time even though I live in a unit backwater.

[bw2341]

“This house is 10 metres square” is grammatically incorrect.

It should be “This house is 10-metre square”. The hyphen should be present and the unit should be singular, not plural.

When speaking, subtleties such as the “s” for plurals are barely audible and are usually inferred from the context. Frankly, I’m amazed that speech to text works at all.

I would avoid this phrase with human and machine listeners and always say “10 by 10 metre square”.

[Cerebus]

Y'all need remedial English lessons.

"This house is 10 metres square." - The house is square, it has walls 10 metres long, it has an area of 100m².

"This house is 10 square metres." - This house has a floor area of 10 m², it may be any shape including irregular.

“This house is 10-metre square” is just plain ungrammatical, and sounds like a non-native English speaker. The 10 and the 'metre' don't agree in number, which is a fundamental rule of English. cf "Ten girl came to the party" versus "Ten girls came to the party". And if you make it "Ten-girl came to the party" then you're describing someone whose name is "Ten-girl".

[bw2341]

But isn’t “10-metre” a compound adjective modifying “square”?  You use singular units to form a compound adjective. It’s “thirty-nine-and-a-half-foot pole”, not “feet”.

For more clairty, it should be “This is a 10-metre square house”.

[tooki]

Y'all need remedial English lessons.

"This house is 10 metres square." - The house is square, it has walls 10 metres long, it has an area of 100m².

"This house is 10 square metres." - This house has a floor area of 10 m², it may be any shape including irregular.

Disagree.

“10 square meters” = 10 m²
“10 meters square” = 10 m²
“10 meters squared” = 10x10m = 100 m² (Edit: SI officially defines “10 meters squared” as 10 m², but common usage disagrees. See link in later reply.)

Not that I would in any way recommend using anything but the first.

But isn’t “10-metre” a compound adjective modifying “square”?  You use singular units to form a compound adjective. It’s “thirty-nine-and-a-half-foot pole”, not “feet”.

For more clairty, it should be “This is a 10-metre square house”.

Yes, it needs the article in order to use it as a modifier in the singular: “a 10 meter square”. (The hyphen is of no consequence, as hyphens are on the decline in general in English, and do not correspond to anything in the spoken language).

Getting this wrong is practically diagnostic of non-native speakers, who’ll say things like “a 10 meters square” or “it’s 25 meter long” (since in some languages, the noun “meter” doesn’t take a plural marker). Situational (non)countability of nouns is a tricky area in English.

[Cerebus]

Y'all need remedial English lessons.

"This house is 10 metres square." - The house is square, it has walls 10 metres long, it has an area of 100m².

"This house is 10 square metres." - This house has a floor area of 10 m², it may be any shape including irregular.

Disagree.

“10 square meters” = 10 m²
“10 meters square” = 10 m²
“10 meters squared” = 10x10m = 100 m²

Not that I would in any way recommend using anything but the first.

Consider this bit of usage: Q:"How big is it?", A:"About 6 inches square.". What do you expect? Something thats is six inches by six inches, or something that is \$\sqrt{6 {in}^2}\$ by \$\sqrt{6 {in}^2}\$? Saying something is "X units square" is quite distinct from saying that something is "X units squared" - in one the units are linear, in the other they are areal.

As to:

“10 meters squared” = 10x10m = 100 m²

Noting that you've converted that to "metres squared" with that [d]. What would you say if if was any other unit, say noise calculations. "The amplifier has an equivalent input noise of 0.5 \$V^2 {Hz}^{-1}\$." - "The amplifier has an equivalent input noise of 0.5 volts squared per Hertz.". You wouldn't square the stated figure of 0.5 expressed in the units \$V^2 {Hz}^{-1}\$, neither would you square a figure given in units of \$m^2\$ - "metres squared".

[tooki]

Y'all need remedial English lessons.

"This house is 10 metres square." - The house is square, it has walls 10 metres long, it has an area of 100m².

"This house is 10 square metres." - This house has a floor area of 10 m², it may be any shape including irregular.

Disagree.

“10 square meters” = 10 m²
“10 meters square” = 10 m²
“10 meters squared” = 10x10m = 100 m²

Not that I would in any way recommend using anything but the first.

Consider this bit of usage: Q:"How big is it?", A:"About 6 inches square.". What do you expect? Something thats is six inches by six inches, or something that is \$\sqrt{6 {in}^2}\$ by \$\sqrt{6 {in}^2}\$? Saying something is "X units square" is quite distinct from saying that something is "X units squared" - in one the units are linear, in the other they are areal.

Nooooo, really?!? I’m so glad you spelled back to me the literal point of my reply. I just disagree with you on which one is which. (I am open to being convinced otherwise, though.)

With that said, oddly enough, the answer to me depends on the unit: for meters, I expect it to mean \$\sqrt{6 {m}^2}\$ by \$\sqrt{6 {m}^2}\$, but in inches, a 6” x 6” square. Perhaps it has to to with context (a couple of inches being far smaller than a couple of meters), I’d have to think about it.

As to:

“10 meters squared” = 10x10m = 100 m²

Noting that you've converted that to "metres squared" with that [d].

Wow, you noticed! Thanks, Cap’n Obvious!

What would you say if if was any other unit, say noise calculations. "The amplifier has an equivalent input noise of 0.5 \$V^2 {Hz}^{-1}\$." - "The amplifier has an equivalent input noise of 0.5 volts squared per Hertz.". You wouldn't square the stated figure of 0.5 expressed in the units \$V^2 {Hz}^{-1}\$, neither would you square a figure given in units of \$m^2\$ - "metres squared".

Honestly, this seems to be an area of contention, with the meter clearly getting special status in common usage. (Whereas I completely agree with your example of V squared.)

Look at e.g. https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-square-meter-and-meter-square

The SI apparently states unambiguously that 10 meters squared = 10 m². However, nearly every reply (including ones by mathematicians) say that 2 meters squared = 4 m². The SI does not, however, address what “10 meters square” is supposed to mean.

Hence why I agree that one should stick to the wordings “10 square meters” and “10 x 10 meters”/“10m x 10m”, which are totally unambiguous and avoid the ambiguous phrasings.


Can we agree, though, that the OP is completely, unambiguously wrong in claiming that “10 square meters” is not 10 m²?

If I say "This house is 10 metres square"
it produces the text
"This house is 10 m²"
which is correct.

If I say "This house is 10 square metres"
it again produces the text
"This house is 10 m²"
which is incorrect.

iOS 12.5.1 on iPhone 6.

[Cerebus]

The SI apparently states unambiguously that 10 meters squared = 10 m². However, nearly every reply (including ones by mathematicians) say that 2 meters squared = 4 m². The SI does not, however, address what “10 meters square” is supposed to mean.

That's the difference between "10 metres, squared" and "10 (metres squared)".  I suspect, apart from the present examples, that it's moot, as I would probably say "10 square metres" to describe something of 10 m². It's only when reading out "10 m²" verbatim as "ten (metres squared)" that the ambiguity arises.

I note that the mathematicians ought to have done a better job and recognised the higher precedence of exponentiation over multiplication in \$10 \cdot m^2\$ (The O in BODMAS).

[JohnnyMalaria]

The SI apparently states unambiguously that 10 meters squared = 10 m². However, nearly every reply (including ones by mathematicians) say that 2 meters squared = 4 m². The SI does not, however, address what “10 meters square” is supposed to mean.

And nor should SI address what it means. SI is a system of units, not calculations or algebra. SI is concerned with <number><unit>. So, the number is utterly divorced from everything else. 10 is 10. 10 what? Whatever the units specified are.

It is correct to say that the square of "ten meters" is "100 meters squared" since it is (10 m) x (10 m) = 100 x (m x m) = 100 m².

As a slight aside, in high school, my physics teacher made a very good point that has stuck with me. With SI, you shouldn't say "10 volts", "10 ohms" etc. It should be "10 volt", "10 ohm". Plurals are language-specific. Interestingly, where I live, some people speak that way anyway ("fifty cent" )

Done correctly, SI can get rather confusing, though. For example, the thing I measure has units of m²s^-1V^-1. What it represents is the velocity of an object (m.s^-1) moving in an electric field (V.m^-1), so "velocity per unit electric field".

[retiredfeline]

If I say "This house is 10 metres square"
it produces the text
"This house is 10 m²"
which is correct.

If you said that to me I would ask you for clarification. Do you mean you have a house that is 10 metres by 10 metres, or you have a tiny house. say 2.5 metres by 4 metres? So I wouldn't use that phrase myself even if it saves a couple of words.

[retiredfeline]

As a slight aside, in high school, my physics teacher made a very good point that has stuck with me. With SI, you shouldn't say "10 volts", "10 ohms" etc. It should be "10 volt", "10 ohm".

Your physics teacher is correct, but it's quixotic to expect people to change their speech. People are inconsistent anyway, they say a 10 ohm resistor but also the resistance is 10 ohms. As long as they don't start writing 10 Ωs which would be ohm-seconds whatever that is.

[JohnnyMalaria]

As a slight aside, in high school, my physics teacher made a very good point that has stuck with me. With SI, you shouldn't say "10 volts", "10 ohms" etc. It should be "10 volt", "10 ohm".

Your physics teacher is correct, but it's quixotic to expect people to change their speech. People are inconsistent anyway, they say a 10 ohm resistor but also the resistance is 10 ohms. As long as they don't start writing 10 Ωs which would be ohm-seconds whatever that is.

kg.m².s^-2.A^-2

[Brumby]

Are you saying that "10 metres square" and "10 square metres" are the same thing?

No.  I thought I made that clear - but, obviously not.

This:

"This house is 10 metres square." - The house is square, it has walls 10 metres long, it has an area of 100m².

"This house is 10 square metres." - This house has a floor area of 10 m², it may be any shape including irregular.

[Brumby]

As a little additional note.....

I find it rather telling when you see a real estate advertisement for a property which states the property is "10 square metres" when it is clearly apparent that the property is "10 squares" in size.

An uneducated "correction" by some numpty who does not understand the old-fashioned unit of area, the "square" (used especially in residential property sales) is an equivalent area to a square of 10' x 10' ... ie. 100 square feet.