Macbook - for windows/linux user?

[paulca]

I have had the chance to use a MacBook for a few months about 4 years ago, but on Monday morning I got handed two of them as my new work laptops.

It's a bit jarring.  All the little things like "CTRL+ left/right" to move by word, is now "Option +", but for copy paste its Command+.   Ctrl+left is more like "Home" is on everything else.

CTRL+Mouse scroll is not zoom.  Option/Control/Command and "+ -" works in "some" applications, but not in most.

Worse is people who know Macs just fly through stuff ... I feel like a graduate again.

[JPortici]

you *can* customize all those options, you know.

[paulca]

you *can* customize all those options, you know.

Care to elaborate?  Google searches are telling me I need add ons like Karabiner?

[Infraviolet]

With older MacBooks you certainly could just install Linux (and therefore probably Windows too) upon them. Not sure what the newer ones are like though, especially with Apple's move away from the x86 architecture.

[John B]

People do run Linux on the M series processor based ones, but I'm not sure what era they support up to (M1, M2 etc). Also the hardware support had to be added bit by bit (sensors etc), so not sure how well the machine operates as a daily use machine.

The older Intel ones are a breeze to run Linux on and it's amazing how much new life it gives them.

I have a 2011/2012 Macbook Pro where I bypassed the failed GPU, upgraded the RAM and SSD. Still running strong to this day. While the processor isn't as good as newer machines, the RAM and SSD are what make it usable for day to day tasks.

[brucehoult]

It's a bit jarring.  All the little things like "CTRL+ left/right" to move by word, is now "Option +", but for copy paste its Command+.   Ctrl+left is more like "Home" is on everything else.

Mac was there first, the others copied imperfectly. It's a not a big deal, I switch between machines constantly.

All the stuff Windows copied from Mac are on Command where they be.long, not Ctrl.

Lots of emacs/bash/GNU readline stuff is on the Ctrl key and works precisely the same as on Linux, including in text entry boxes in apps.


If you don't like the BSD-ish options on command line utilities, it's simplicity itself to run up an Arm64 VM with native Linux (one of the highest, if not the highest, performance Arm Linuxes you can get), or with less performance loss than you'd think, x86 Linux.

[abeyer]

Mac was there first, the others copied imperfectly.

I'd revise that to SRI/Englebart was there first, Xerox copied them, Apple copied Xerox, and then everyone else jumped on the bandwagon.

But I'd also argue that Apple has lost their way more recently (or perhaps just chosen to go a different way), and if anything I think some of the other options are actually more true to some of their original vision.

[brucehoult]

Mac was there first, the others copied imperfectly.

I'd revise that to SRI/Englebart was there first, Xerox copied them, Apple copied Xerox, and then everyone else jumped on the bandwagon.

Xerox used Ctrl-Z for Undo [1], but X C V for Cut Copy Paste were Apple's invention in the Lisa. Xerox used pop-up menus and/or direct mouse manipulation of selections (e.g. dragging) for those.

[1] possibly related to the use of actual Ctrl-Z characters in a file to mark EOF on early DEC OSes, CP/M, MS-DOS which tracked files size in blocks not bytes?

[langwadt]

People do run Linux on the M series processor based ones, but I'm not sure what era they support up to (M1, M2 etc). Also the hardware support had to be added bit by bit (sensors etc), so not sure how well the machine operates as a daily use machine.

afaiu there is a linux for M1,M2. With Windows now also running on ARM, maybe that'll be possible to run windows natively some day

[paulca]

Well thanks, but it's a work laptop.  I don't think installing Linux on it is really an option.

The "Who stole/borrowed from Xerox parc" is a common argument.  Personally I settled on the Bob Cringley version, where they were all invited, they all seen, they all stole.  Then they tried to fight it out on court for decades as to who stole it first.

On a practical sense.  "CMD+Z...X...C...V" They are all basically adjacent keys to each other.  If I put my little finger on the modifier like I would normally, then I have shift my whole hand down to reach the character key.  Unlike using SHIFT or CTRL where with my little pinking on either I can still reach the whole left side of the keyboard with my hand without moving it.

Having to move my whole hand around the keyboard for simple things like "Move 3 words left and then select 2 words left", is CRIPPLINGLY slow in comparison.  This is "Option" I beleive?  On a normal keyboard I would do these my two little fingers, one on CTRL and/or rolled onto SHIFT of my left hand the little finger of my right hand spanned over to the cursor keys.  Barely needing to move the ands an inch.

The only middle ground I can try is using my left thumb, as I would on alt, but that too requires a whole hand shift and it's why ALT is the most rarely used modifier on the left side... or why it's there.

Apple didn't even support for a second mouse button until recently.  Their UIs are not the best.  They are just consistently simple for simple users.

[Someone]

Apple didn't even support for a second mouse button until recently.  Their UIs are not the best.  They are just consistently simple for simple users.

Your “recently” is s bit far fetched when there were first party mice with “right click” (secondary) for more than 20 years:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Mighty_Mouse
while the OS supported that well ahead of then. So it seems like you’re wildly misinformed.

Having to move my whole hand around the keyboard for simple things like "Move 3 words left and then select 2 words left", is CRIPPLINGLY slow in comparison.

This is purely your training/muscle memory, people used to the modifier keys being the other way around complain just as much.