boolean_t is_ok(x)
{
ans = True;
ans = ans logicalAnd x'( CPU.ISA isNot { x86, amd });
ans = ans logicalAnd x has "{ firmware, hardware } documentaton";
ans = ans logicalAnd x has "enough RAM and CPU speed to run { emacs, gcc, gdb, x11|twm, ... }";
ans = ans logicalAnd x has "built-in display{ 800x600|4:3, 1024x768|4:3, ... }";
ans = ans logicalAnd x has "QWERTY keyboard";
ans = ans logicalAnd x has "built-in { trackpad, trackball, trackpoint, ... }";
ans = ans logicalAnd x is "battery powered";
ans = ans logicalAnd x is "able to work for at least 6 hours on battery";
ans = ans logicalAnd x has "linux support";
return ans;
}
You left off PineTab-V, which meets all your stated criteria (except maybe battery life).
is_ok(PineTab-V) = False;
x has "QWERTY keyboard"; ---> False
x is "able to work for at least 6 hours on battery"; ---> False
You left off PineTab-V, which meets all your stated criteria (except maybe battery life).Code: [Select]is_ok(PineTab-V) = False;
x has "QWERTY keyboard"; ---> False
x is "able to work for at least 6 hours on battery"; ---> False
It's not a laptop, but rather a tablet with an external keyboard -> bad design
no, it does not. Bult-in keyboard is a completely differnt thing in practice.
no, it does not. Bult-in keyboard is a completely differnt thing in practice.
what's the big difference?
no, it does not. Bult-in keyboard is a completely differnt thing in practice.
what's the big difference?
A built-in keyboard is typically less flexible than folding ones (especially if detacable folding ones) and offers much better typing comfort, and being usually based on a wired-protocol instead of wireless one (Bluetooth) is better from both firmware and kernel perspective, as it makes the developer's life easier and doesn't even bore you with charging extra batteries.
The trouble is that almost no-one wants a non-x86 laptop. Virtually all the programs one is actually running on a laptop are compiled for x86, that includes Windows executables, Windows executbles that run happily under Wine and Linux native executables.
*yes one might note that Apple has gone away from x86 without losing "users", but Apple users are more like fashion consumers than real geeks. Apple having moved away from x86 isn't a relevant comparison, as the trendy wants of Apple buyers are very different than the technical needs among the type of people who would be interested in an open-source laptop as a real daily driver machine.
I've been on Linux with every computer I've used since 2017, nonetheless the majority of programs I use are precompiled x86 binaries.
*yes one might note that Apple has gone away from x86 without losing "users", but Apple users are more like fashion consumers than real geeks. Apple having moved away from x86 isn't a relevant comparison, as the trendy wants of Apple buyers are very different than the technical needs among the type of people who would be interested in an open-source laptop as a real daily driver machine.
I've been on Linux with every computer I've used since 2017, nonetheless the majority of programs I use are precompiled x86 binaries.
I've been on Linux with every computer I've used since 2017, nonetheless the majority of programs I use are precompiled x86 binaries.
The majority of programs I use on my arm32, arm64, and riscv64 Linux boards are also precompiled binaries. Binaries for Arm and RISC-V, not for x86, of course. "sudo apt install foo". Boom!
To answer your objections:
The trouble is that almost no-one wants a non-x86 laptop. Virtually all the programs one is actually running on a laptop are compiled for x86
This is very hard to avoid if you're not a huge manufacturer, as virtually all such small displays are made for portrait mode devices these days.
if it bothers you, set it to not display the boot messages.
Note, when you boot the kernel, the /dev/tty console is not rotated, so you have to twist your neck
This is very hard to avoid if you're not a huge manufacturer, as virtually all such small displays are made for portrait mode devices these days.
Both uboot and fbcon support console rotation, and adding it to other drivers is not too difficult.
#!/bin/bash
UENV_PATH="/boot/uEnv.txt"
case $1 in
on) sed -i.bak '/debug=/c\debug=on' $UENV_PATH
echo "Debug on headphone port enabled. Please reboot !"
;;
off) sed -i.bak '/debug=/c\debug=off' $UENV_PATH
echo "Debug on headphone port disabled. Please reboot !"
;;
*)
echo "Unknown option! Usage: debug_switch on|off "
esac
Why hasn't u-boot been modified to provide this service?Linux boot and kernel stuff is somewhere I don't venture.
Why hasn't u-boot been modified to provide this service?
Why open source is always missing essential things (like a debugging console) and you always end up angry with tons of hacks?!?
How am I going to manage this?
Since it uses u-boot, I would use the gpio command instead. If not supported on this hardware yet, then I would look into a patch implementing it, and pushing it upstream.
This, too, is something that should have been done by the systems integrator who put the example/default images together, being low-lying fruit and all.
Unfortunately, minimizing time to market no matter how un-integrated or incomplete the device is, is the primary goal nowadays.
# uname -r
3.10.104
void export_gpio
(
int gpio
)
{
int fd;
char buf[255];
fd = open("/sys/class/gpio/export", O_WRONLY);
sprintf(buf, "%d", gpio);
write(fd, buf, strlen(buf));
close(fd);
sprintf(buf, "/sys/class/gpio/gpio%d/direction", gpio);
fd = open(buf, O_WRONLY);
write(fd, "out", 3);
close(fd);
}
The provided tool to "enable the debug port" is ok for kernel v3, but it's deprecated stuff since kernel v5, so this stuff won't even work This, too, is something that should have been done by the systems integrator who put the example/default images together, being low-lying fruit and all.
Unfortunately, minimizing time to market no matter how un-integrated or incomplete the device is, is the primary goal nowadays.
bah, the Teres-1 is a product made in 2018, six years ago, still for sale for ~250-300 euro shipped with all the tools you need, which is not "cheap", especially compared to alternatives.
At least take care of the basic things... instead...
Don't you go there too: systems integration is just as important as choosing proper hardware for the task!
There is no "basic things first" in this type of hardware; it is either all of it at acceptable quality (including systems integration), or it is crappy.
In the case of Olimex the "product" is a "kit", which arrives in the form of a box of components to assemble, therefore it's not even the "kit" of a "finished laptop" but rather of a "laptop in development", that is, a "development board inserted into the shell of a laptop computer".
In 2018 they promised several interchangeable motherboards, that is, the possibility of choosing what to install inside the laptop chassis. However, in reality there is only one choice: that's is Allwinner A64 SoC! So, it wasn't my choice to use an Allwinner SoC in the teres1.
Anyway, as "develoment platform" sold as "product", there are basic things first. One of them is to provide a serial console without the need of hacking anything!
This is what pissed me off yesterday: that no one has bothered to fix the matter yet, and this wastes a lot of time, to the point of discouraging potential people willing to lend a hand and help.
about "social issues" ... next stop will likely be people on { Youtube, TikTok, ... } telling not only retro computing enthusiasts but also open hardware laptops enthusiasts are all "masochist"
( Jeff ... did it )
I hope you and others see my logic here, and my positive/supportive intent at the root of my pushback/ranting.
The A64 and possibly A20/A33 are the only chips that i am using from allwinner and i consider the others an unusable garbage tbh
The A64 because it doesn't have a known vulnerability to CPU bugs e.g. spectre, meltdown, etc.. and because it's cheap and documented chip that runs libre software stack (arm trusted firmware, crust, uboot) with an exception of the FEL protocol that is proprietary, but is easily auditable and it doesn't seem to be an issue of willingness to open-source rather that open-sourcing such a thing is kinda difficult to do in a usable way as it's an integrated thing in the chip that you can't really easily change and is there as a last resort to prevent hard brick situations..
So the idea of using it for development is that there won't be any surprices that will take time out of hardware development, if i mess up traces somewhere then the chip costs ~2 EUR to replace and so it's kinda really good solution for hardware development as it provides a robust foundation to use from which we can then implement additional modules and have a transition on riscv, bcs currently i am not aware of a single riscv64 chip that is not major pita or doesn't have major issues to be used.. the TH1520 is like the least broken imho and seems to get a decent mainline, but has issues with riscv implementation https://github.com/revyos/revyos/issues/17#issuecomment-1867110963 and the NPU/GPU is currently proprietary and it's not clear if it will get open-sourced and from me trying to implement compatibility for the TH1520 in armbian it's a constant show of surprices that would take the time off of hardware development.
this is the other Jeff. His video is... hilarious since he's collecting old Macs
this is the other Jeff. His video is... hilarious since he's collecting old Macs
Ahh .. young Yearling. Is that his dad?
this is the other Jeff. His video is... hilarious since he's collecting old Macs
Yeah, nice clickbaity title. I don't even blame, that's just the game.
In the case of Olimex the "product" is a "kit", which arrives in the form of a box of components to assemble, therefore it's not even the "kit" of a "finished laptop" but rather of a "laptop in development", that is, a "development board inserted into the shell of a laptop computer".
I'm not too much into vintage computing myself (I mean, in an active manner), but the last related thing I did a couple years ago was to revive a Sinclair QL, a modest, yet much rarer beast than any Macintosh.
I'm not too much into vintage computing myself (I mean, in an active manner), but the last related thing I did a couple years ago was to revive a Sinclair QL, a modest, yet much rarer beast than any Macintosh.
Ahh, an 8 bit computer :-) :-)
does making it a "kit" avoid the paperwork of getting approvals?
kreyren on 29 March 20, 2024QuoteDiTBho on March 20, 2024
Just checked, the pinetab2 uses the Rockchip RK3566 SoC
Afaik the reason why OLIMEX didn't provide the RK3399 and RK3566 is that they were very unreliable software-wise (afaik they release the chip and then rely on the community to mainline them while not providing sufficient amount of documentation?) and tsvetan not wanting to support that as the resulting mainline is often very problematic and takes long time to get implemented in a way that is acceptable in industrial settings (OLIMEX's main focus)
For me in terms of arm architecture only use Cortex A7/53/55 and consider everything else garbage due to the CPU vulnerabilities, but i plan on supporting all chips as long as the required docs to make boards for these are available or unless someone wants to do the adventure of reverse-engineering them and contributing that (that's what the SOM management is meant to be for)
macmini2-intel /mnt/disk3/src/machine/platform/powerpc/PowerMacG4/mdd/kernel/kernel-6.6.16-ppc-PowerMac-mdd-2xG4 # ./mybuild-2024 2
[step2] compiling
kernel-6.6.16(powerpc/powermac-mdd-2xG4)
note: experimental, SMP, Zserial
toolchain(powerpc-unknown-linux-gnu:2.34.0/9.3.0)
-----------------------------------------------
checking myhost as qualified_host ... success
checking .config ... success
-----------------------------------------------
gadget_to_do(build) ... overlay/build
cleaning ................ done
gadget_to_do(clean) ... kernel/clean
app_machine=PPC7455-PowerMac-MDD-SMP, server-profile-250Hz
building kernel ...
but that stuff is so rare that when it appears on eBay it is listed for 300 euros
He said "very slow". Umm, well it's faster than my japanese PDA with an Intel PXA ARM@400Mhz.
[1] of course it's not as fast as the new hotness RK3588 boards in the Arm world, such as that Pi 5 that came out half a year ago (but is unobtanium)
[1] of course it's not as fast as the new hotness RK3588 boards in the Arm world, such as that Pi 5 that came out half a year ago (but is unobtanium)
Pi 5's have been obtainable for awhile now. I just picked up another (8GB) last week when I stopped by MicroCenter here in the states. Pishop.us, where I normally buy them online, also has them in stock. If you're not able to find them, it must be a regional thing.
I don't agree with kreyren's assessment
Having a nice keyboard and a nice IPS or similar display with wide viewing angles and preferably no dead pixels, seems very difficult in the laptop land. Even the big manufacturers often fail in this.
Yearling is almost as much of an Arm (and Pi) bigot
The problem is not the hardware but that it takes time for new hardware to get good quality support upstreamed
Yearling is almost as much of an Arm (and Pi) bigot
A "bigot" is a person who is obstinately and/or unreasonably attached to { belief, opinion, faction } especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.
Jeff ... umm, I think he simply makes videos for money, and has sponsors who pay him and send him hardware, so he deliberately acts as an influencer with/for RPI/ARM
but then if we design motherboards with interchangeable SoM modules precisely to give the possibility of making upgrades without having to change the entire laptop, then... let's start by designing the frame, the keyboard, the trackpad, and the screen, and make them brilliant instead of poor!
It seems strange, but NO ONE is doing it!
You may have missed the $1500 DC-Roma, which is designed for interchangeable SoM CPU modules, but with (presumably) higher quality components around it.
The problem is if people don't want to pay $400 for Pi 3 - Pi 4 performance then they certainly don't want to pay $1500! For that money I just bought a 5.4 GHz (turbo) 24 core x86 laptop with ... well ... fairly good quality components.
if we look at my Japanese handheld, it's even smaller than a mini-laptop, the keys on the keyboard are noticeably smaller, and are of the same type as those used in pocket calculators, I have been using it daily for 10 years and I can assure you that they are much less annoying to use than those of some mini-laptops.
for me it's wrong not to take care of primary details like the keyboard!
In fact in the comments below the video, as expected, it is pointed out that that keyboard is very uncomfortable for using the mini-laptop as an ssh network console.
Dunno anything about the Chinese-~MIPS64(1) laptops ...
(1) ~MIPS64 are not 100% MIPS64-ISA compliant.
well, the DC-Roma is kind of legendary dogma for me ...
I opened the topic precisely because the 12 months of the announcement have expired and no one has published a Video on Youtube or a review yet.
You stated that some of your colleagues received the laptop, and I edited the topic,
because otherwise I would think that it was never made, and this is what we also read on Reddit (1y ago).
We will announce no Apple before its time.
QuoteWe will announce no Apple before its time.
~MIPS64 are not 100% MIPS64-ISA compliant.
The Loongson MIPS implementation is a superset of MIPS64 if I remember correctly. I doubt that anyone would ever notice the difference except if you're writing MIPS assembly and even then probably not very much.
mips-gcc -c -S hAllo.c -o hAllo.s1
mips-fix hAllo.s1 hAllo.s # intercept the assembly it generates, and replace those missing instructions
mips-as hAllo.s -o hAllo.o
Ugly, but it somehow works for those bloody MIPS-like chips Nordic birch
QuoteWe will announce no Apple before its time.
Did you know that Apple was secretly working on a "i-Car"?
A failed project that couldn't be more failed, in that case they were right not to let anyone know anything
LOL
this is the other Jeff. His video is... hilarious since he's collecting old Macs
Yeah, nice clickbaity title. I don't even blame, that's just the game.
Yup, part of the Youtube game.
Even when he installs ram-sticks which are NOT supported, and then complains that the mac doesn't work.
Or when he says he wants to relive the emotion of the Mac of the time (2002), and then he installs SSD.
RoFTL
Oh, but how I would like a Sonnet Tempo s/ATA PCI64/PCI-X HBA ...
(and a s/ATA port inside the teres1 ... )
Well... to be fair
The bigger thing is I am trying to document all my findings with those Macs in a way where other people can learn how to do the upgrades right on the first try (for example G4 MDD build log).
And regarding SSD, it's mostly so I don't have to sit for the old spinner while loading stuff up. That's the least fun part of reliving a retro experience.
Worse still to this, another level of bigotry on Youtube is added by proposing to the point of exasperation "RPI" as NAS.
Now, you are telling that, without SSD, the computer is unusable because it takes 2-4 minutes to boot?
If 100 people do something better than I do (probably 99.9% of the people on this forum included), it doesn't mean there's no value in me doing it. It'd be a terribly depressing life if I said "ah, someone else has designed a PCB, I shall not ever try."
If 100 people do something better than I do (probably 99.9% of the people on this forum included), it doesn't mean there's no value in me doing it. It'd be a terribly depressing life if I said "ah, someone else has designed a PCB, I shall not ever try."
I for one am glad that you're making a lot of videos about different things. And Christopher too (really good videos). Maybe even Gary Explains. Or maybe not.
Hope you don't mind my affectionate name for you too much.
If I wanted to do that, I'd replace the motherboard with a Raspberry Pi