Windows 10 support ending 2025

[langwadt]

They aren't on drugs, they are thousands of people who have solved the problem they were being paid to solve so far and yet need to live off of something.

What would make you pay for yet another release of Windows? As for me, XP was the last version I had ever used.

that's why so many are moving to subscriptions.  With out hardware development forcing people to buy a new version
of SW every few years (or the number of users keep growing) there's no business

[james_s]

What would make you pay for yet another release of Windows? As for me, XP was the last version I had ever used.

If they offered a new version of Windows 7 with more or less the same nice polished UI on new framework with all the latest security updates and several years of patching with none of the freemium garbage, baked in cloud services, forced updates, lack of quality control and resulting half baked garbage I would be happy to pay full retail price for a couple of copies. I really hate how important security updates are mixed with pointless UI and feature updates. The LAST thing I want is stuff changing around, settings being reset, and trashware I don't want installed without my permission.

[james_s]

that's why so many are moving to subscriptions.  With out hardware development forcing people to buy a new version
of SW every few years (or the number of users keep growing) there's no business

While I recognize the dilemma, subscription is unacceptable to me. I simply refuse to pay continuously for the privilege of using something that I'm accustomed to buying once and using for many years. Almost nobody bothers to buy the newest version of everything every time it comes out so the cost comparisons they show for perpetual vs subscription are always bogus. I don't think subscription is going to be sustainable for a lot of stuff either, companies like Adobe may be able to pull it off with Photoshop but for less unique software the mature nature of the product is allowing the open source options to catch up. When I can have someone buy me a copy of Office for $50 or whatever in the MS company store and use it for 10+ years I'd just buy it, but if I'm expected to subscribe and pay yearly forever, no way, OpenOffice or LibreOffice are good enough. I have a severe allergy to recurring expenses, especially if it's just to keep using something that is or could be completely standalone and isn't really offering any compelling reason to keep paying.

[SiliconWizard]

What would make you pay for yet another release of Windows? As for me, XP was the last version I had ever used.

If they offered a new version of Windows 7 with more or less the same nice polished UI on new framework with all the latest security updates and several years of patching with none of the freemium garbage, baked in cloud services, forced updates, lack of quality control and resulting half baked garbage I would be happy to pay full retail price for a couple of copies.

Ditto.

[Raj]

Apparent, now Microsoft is saying, they might add more CPUs to compatibility list, if their Dev version run fine on them. So instead of testing it themselves, they are saying, go test it for us.

What would make you pay for yet another release of Windows? As for me, XP was the last version I had ever used.

If they offered a new version of Windows 7 with more or less the same nice polished UI on new framework with all the latest security updates and several years of patching with none of the freemium garbage, baked in cloud services, forced updates, lack of quality control and resulting half baked garbage I would be happy to pay full retail price for a couple of copies. I really hate how important security updates are mixed with pointless UI and feature updates. The LAST thing I want is stuff changing around, settings being reset, and trashware I don't want installed without my permission.

Aah,Google and youtube mobile is even worse.

They aren't on drugs, they are thousands of people who have solved the problem they were being paid to solve so far and yet need to live off of something.

What would make you pay for yet another release of Windows? As for me, XP was the last version I had ever used.

that's why so many are moving to subscriptions.  With out hardware development forcing people to buy a new version
of SW every few years (or the number of users keep growing) there's no business

The companies that do subscription are the new hype right now in the stock market.

that's why so many are moving to subscriptions.  With out hardware development forcing people to buy a new version
of SW every few years (or the number of users keep growing) there's no business

While I recognize the dilemma, subscription is unacceptable to me. I simply refuse to pay continuously for the privilege of using something that I'm accustomed to buying once and using for many years. Almost nobody bothers to buy the newest version of everything every time it comes out so the cost comparisons they show for perpetual vs subscription are always bogus. I don't think subscription is going to be sustainable for a lot of stuff either, companies like Adobe may be able to pull it off with Photoshop but for less unique software the mature nature of the product is allowing the open source options to catch up. When I can have someone buy me a copy of Office for $50 or whatever in the MS company store and use it for 10+ years I'd just buy it, but if I'm expected to subscribe and pay yearly forever, no way, OpenOffice or LibreOffice are good enough. I have a severe allergy to recurring expenses, especially if it's just to keep using something that is or could be completely standalone and isn't really offering any compelling reason to keep paying.

Opensource can never catch up, because of legal reasons (patents).

[james_s]

Opensource can never catch up, because of legal reasons (patents).

Patents on what? When has a patent ever stopped an open source program from doing something? At this point other than Windows itself almost all of the software I use is open source. There is less reason all the time to even consider anything else.

[Ed.Kloonk]

Apparent, now Microsoft is saying, they might add more CPUs to compatibility list, if their Dev version run fine on them. So instead of testing it themselves, they are saying, go test it for us.

I was suspicious that the 'leak' versions never seemed to suffer any roadblocks. MS are going on about 'the experience' yet they persist in allowing these cheap OEM systems to be sold.

Cheap department store computers nearly always have mis-matched CPU, FSB and memory. The three are chosen specifically because of cost, not performance of one against the other two.

Every one knows that Windows is really Bloatly McBloatware. They don't care that W10 runs like shit on a brand new potato, but it only matters now that they are trying to sell the new version.

[james_s]

I have a hard time believing *any* currently manufactured PC is too slow to run Windows well. Even a Raspberry Pi 4 is perfectly usable as a desktop system and that's cost reduced to the max. A 10 year old midrange PC will run Windows 7/8/10 just fine.

[RaymondMack]

Laugh all you want, but I actually grew to like Windows 8.1! I still have it on my desktop as it is the oldest OS that my i7-8700T / Z370 system will support. That said, I absolutely hated it on my Surface Pro 3 tablet! Turns out Win7 was unable to install do to some issue with UEFI and the Intel video bios. While the Win8 tablet user interface is an abomination, not everything was a step backwards. The task manager got a very nice overhaul and there are a few other things I liked over 7. I did grow to like the start page after fiddling with it. I had always felt the "start menu" was frustrating. Sifting through a list of folders to find a program is a pain. The start page has its own problems but it’s a step in the right direction--but I like Gnome, so my preferences may be biased.

For people thinking of using a server OS for your daily driver, know that some software will NOT install due to licensing issues. I have tried going the server-as-a-workstation route and it is not always a smooth transition. And then there are potential driver issues to work around as well.

I just wish Microsoft could branch out like Apple has done with their OS development. And by this, I mean make a tablet only OS. That way desktop systems don't need to deal with touch UI features that made Win8 so stupid on a normal desktop. They should also make a strictly "workstation" OS without any "online" features like OneDrive, Microsoft Account and so on that has full backwards compatibility support for old programs. This would make them money and avoid all the hate they get for foisting BS "cutting edge" features down everyone's throats. Professions need to have a reliable OS that doesn't get daily updates that can break their systems and require forced reboots. The LTSC release of Win10 is NOT the right OS for workstations. LTSB was a step in the right direction but MS decided to abandon the idea of a "classic" Windows OS that didn't have forced updates and forced integration of "online/cloud" features.

I do find it hilarious that the new Win11 UI is an unholy fusion of Mac OS and the Gnome desktop environment.

I for one will be moving over to Linux after Win8.1 stops getting security updates. The primary issue I've encountered with Linux--that has often kept me from transitioning--is that it has shit support for the latest HW. If you are running an old system, then the experience is actually pleasant. But you install the latest Wi-Fi card and bam, no support. Or your CPU runs hotter because the CPUs advanced power savings features aren't supported. A real deal breaker for laptops. Linux will always be two steps behind Windows in HW support. This fact has never changed in all my testing over the years.

[magic]

If they offered a new version of Windows 7 with more or less the same nice polished UI on new framework with all the latest security updates and several years of patching

That's what I mean: Windows is a solved problem. You don't want new features, they don't care about rewriting things that ain't broke, there is no business in it anymore besides maintenance. You don't really need new Windows, you want Windows 7 LTS. Many other users would even be happy with XP LTS.

They can scale down and become a small project catering to a small niche of users, perhaps a shrinking one at that (kids these days ), or they can show you the finger and go for new and juicy markets like all the billions of idiots who are just barely smart enough to purchase a phone or a tablet.

[Raj]

Patents on what? When has a patent ever stopped an open source program from doing something? At this point other than Windows itself almost all of the software I use is open source. There is less reason all the time to even consider anything else.

Like most photoshop tools can't be implemented because of patents....take AI based stamping tools for eg...which is used to generate grass, crowd etc, where there were none, (like behind a deleted person of an image).

I was suspicious that the 'leak' versions never seemed to suffer any roadblocks. MS are going on about 'the experience' yet they persist in allowing these cheap OEM systems to be sold.

As far as I know, it's still running the windows 10 kernel (exact down to a byte)

I have a hard time believing *any* currently manufactured PC is too slow to run Windows well. Even a Raspberry Pi 4 is perfectly usable as a desktop system and that's cost reduced to the max. A 10 year old midrange PC will run Windows 7/8/10 just fine.

I think they have plans to screw that up later on.

I just wish Microsoft could branch out like Apple has done with their OS development.

True. No single device can "do all the thing perfectly". Phones need to be like phones and desktops need to be like desktop. Apple knows that fact well.

That's what I mean: Windows is a solved problem. You don't want new features, they don't care about rewriting things that ain't broke, there is no business in it anymore besides maintenance. You don't really need new Windows, you want Windows 7 LTS. Many other users would even be happy with XP LTS.

They can scale down and become a small project catering to a small niche of users, perhaps a shrinking one at that (kids these days ), or they can show you the finger and go for new and juicy markets like all the billions of idiots who are just barely smart enough to purchase a phone or a tablet.

It's the UI and Graphics department's ploy to keep themselves employed. They keep convincing the management that they are necessary.
What's worse is, when these people get replaced, the newer ones seem to think that they are the boss, their way is the right way and users are idiots, thus end up reducing the customization options instead. XP was peak design with a lots of customization features.
Now we can't even set a shutdown sound

[SiliconWizard]

If they offered a new version of Windows 7 with more or less the same nice polished UI on new framework with all the latest security updates and several years of patching

That's what I mean: Windows is a solved problem. You don't want new features, they don't care about rewriting things that ain't broke, there is no business in it anymore besides maintenance. You don't really need new Windows, you want Windows 7 LTS. Many other users would even be happy with XP LTS.

Yeah. There's still a couple fixes I would like to see in Windows 7 (apart from potential security fixes): both with the file explorer. And that MS never cared to fix.

One is with file refresh. Many times, but somewhat randomly (at least, I can't find a pattern), the content of open, folders in the file explorer is not automatically updated when there is a change (file or directory modified/removed outside of the explorer, for instance). This used to work perfectly fine in older Windows versions. The problem is not just with distant directories of course. Files/directories on the network, I can understand why they can't be updated in near real-time. But with local files and folders? That's unbelievable. Often you have to manually refresh with F5. That's a well known bug, I had found a KB entry for it, but MS never fixed it.

The other is with folder view settings. Randomly, some folders will lose their view settings. The one I've seen this bug most often with is the "Devices and Printers" folder, but I've also very occasionally seen this with other folders. Sometimes the navigation bar will just disappear for no reason. Or the view type (List, Details, etc.) will change on its own. Most often occurs when you leave explorer windows open, shut down your computer and start it again, so this one may be linked to the option of saving open file explorer windows and restoring them upon reboot.

Of course, one can use a third-party file explorer instead. I've tried Explorer++, which is not too bad, but it's not quite right either and is of course a lot less integrated than the native explorer...

[james_s]

That's what I mean: Windows is a solved problem. You don't want new features, they don't care about rewriting things that ain't broke, there is no business in it anymore besides maintenance. You don't really need new Windows, you want Windows 7 LTS. Many other users would even be happy with XP LTS.

But I would pay for it, like I have previous versions of Windows. There is value in support for the latest hardware and software, security updates, bug fixes and other behind the scenes improvements, I would pay for an upgrade that still had the same UI as the previous version, the UI is a solved problem but there is an ongoing need for other improvements. The problem is they keep making the UI and UX worse and worse and that to me negates all of the other improvements.

[Marco]

Chrome OS is open source apart from some blobs for drivers and works just fine regardless of patents, using an OS where you are the product has some privacy issues but it works fine.

[rsjsouza]

The Chrome OS is a good proposition and the chrome books work really well. That was my preference when we had online school last year, as the TCO was lower (I didn't really have to worry about A/V software) and I didn't have to worry about constant updates that broke things, like on a Windows 10.
Unfortunately Alphabet's greed to collect all sorts of data makes it a hard big no-no for my regular use.

I am writing these words in an Acer C720 repurposed with Q4OS after Google decided to stop supporting this system.

[HobGoblyn]

Yep, my I7 32GB PC that runs all my audio software perfectly, incompatible with win 11.

The message I got was I need an 8th generation i7.

This was a high end PC when I built it,  I’ve no desire to spend a small fortune building a new one when my existing one is 100% fine, will give win11 a miss.

There will be thousands and thousands of incompatible PCs out there.

[HobGoblyn]

If I remember correctly, for windows home edition users, having an online event MS account will be mandatory if you wish to install win11.

Yep, just found it

https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/windows-11-specifications

[SilverSolder]

Yep, my I7 32GB PC that runs all my audio software perfectly, incompatible with win 11.

The message I got was I need an 8th generation i7.

This was a high end PC when I built it,  I’ve no desire to spend a small fortune building a new one when my existing one is 100% fine, will give win11 a miss.

There will be thousands and thousands of incompatible PCs out there.

Does it actually refuse to install, as opposed to just claiming on the box that it is not compatible?

[Raj]

Yep, my I7 32GB PC that runs all my audio software perfectly, incompatible with win 11.

The message I got was I need an 8th generation i7.

This was a high end PC when I built it,  I’ve no desire to spend a small fortune building a new one when my existing one is 100% fine, will give win11 a miss.

There will be thousands and thousands of incompatible PCs out there.

Does it actually refuse to install, as opposed to just claiming on the box that it is not compatible?

For now, you can even install without TPM...

[SiliconWizard]

The processor support will be much more problematic than the TPM thing. Of course Core i7 processors from older generations than 8th are still perfectly capable. The top of the range ones are even clearly more powerful than the entry-level 8th generation ones...

While I was upgrading hardware every 2 years on average, until a few years ago, I have drastically increased this period, for a few years now. The performance gap has become almost insignificant for most uses, so that now looks like a waste of money.

MS might relax hardware requirements by the time Windows 11 ships, though. Still. Windows is dead to me.

[SilverSolder]

If the final version of Windows 10 is a good one, it might be worth using as it will remain stable with no feature updates...

[rsjsouza]

The processor support will be much more problematic than the TPM thing. Of course Core i7 processors from older generations than 8th are still perfectly capable. The top of the range ones are even clearly more powerful than the entry-level 8th generation ones...

Indeed. My Gigabyte Extreme EX58 with 24GB and running a 6 core Xeon W3690 is still quite a powerful machine that will not be supported by Win11. 

If the final version of Windows 10 is a good one, it might be worth using as it will remain stable with no feature updates...

Indeed. Well, until the scare police says your OS cannot be supported anymore and you will get viruses and trojans on D-day+1 after the cutoff date...

[james_s]

Indeed. Well, until the scare police says your OS cannot be supported anymore and you will get viruses and trojans on D-day+1 after the cutoff date...

I've never seen that threat pan out. I know some will disagree vehemently but whatever, I ran XP for years after support was dropped, I'm still running Win7, now years since support was dropped and I turned off Windows Update completely once they started pushing Win10 so hard. I've cleaned up scores of infected machines for people over the years and the thing that absolutely every one of them had in common is that the user installed something sketchy and infected it. Fully patched and up to date or not updated in years, it never mattered, people installed stuff that was infected or bundled with malware, completely bypassing all of the protection offered by the OS. I've never in my entire life seen a desktop PC infected via an unpatched exploit. Script blocker and ad blocker on an up to date browser provides a lot more security benefit than OS patches.

Now a very important thing to emphasize, I'm talking about a PC that sits behind a NAT/firewall, this is NOT the case for a server that is right out there on the internet exposed to the public, those absolutely get exploited and keeping them up to date is vital, but on an internal network, never seen it, not without the user installing something. I'm not claiming it's impossible, but it's one of those things like getting run over by a bus or killed by a tree falling on your house, it can happen but with a little common sense it's rare enough that it isn't something that keeps me awake at night worrying over.

[HobGoblyn]

Yep, my I7 32GB PC that runs all my audio software perfectly, incompatible with win 11.

The message I got was I need an 8th generation i7.

This was a high end PC when I built it,  I’ve no desire to spend a small fortune building a new one when my existing one is 100% fine, will give win11 a miss.

There will be thousands and thousands of incompatible PCs out there.

Does it actually refuse to install, as opposed to just claiming on the box that it is not compatible?

For now, you can even install without TPM...

The MS insider won’t let me download it as my pc is incompatible.  Sure there’s probably download links elsewhere, but as I’m in the MS insider program, I’d have thought it would let me download it if they wanted me to run with my specs.

Just watched this YouTube vid which says all 7 of the PC’s in his house are incompatible, as are many ones available to buy today on the likes of Newegg or Amazon.

https://youtu.be/qrH4zEBmztc

[Raj]

Yep, my I7 32GB PC that runs all my audio software perfectly, incompatible with win 11.

The message I got was I need an 8th generation i7.

This was a high end PC when I built it,  I’ve no desire to spend a small fortune building a new one when my existing one is 100% fine, will give win11 a miss.

There will be thousands and thousands of incompatible PCs out there.

Does it actually refuse to install, as opposed to just claiming on the box that it is not compatible?

For now, you can even install without TPM...

The MS insider won’t let me download it as my pc is incompatible.  Sure there’s probably download links elsewhere, but as I’m in the MS insider program, I’d have thought it would let me download it if they wanted me to run with my specs.

Just watched this YouTube vid which says all 7 of the PC’s in his house are incompatible, as are many ones available to buy today on the likes of Newegg or Amazon.

https://youtu.be/qrH4zEBmztc

The trick for now, is to use "windows to go" feature from a compatible device. i don't know how, exactly...but I did read about it somewhere.