Windows 7 vs Windows 10??

[Jeroen3]

Well, let me explain my self a bit, I consider my self power user since DOS era, endless tweaking CONFIG.SYS & AUTOEXEC.BAT to squeeze even the last drip of byte and performance, so did I on WIN.INI & SYSTEM.INI at Win9X era  , up to tweaking Windows registry endlessly for years. Ended up I grew old and just do not want to do it anymore.

Here my responds regarding your view on LTSC.

It doesn't do feature updates at all. After 10 years you must reinstall the next version.

What ? Do you plan to use it the same OS installation after 10 years ? 

Since you just read, never used it yourself, which feature do you think will make your life harder ? Be specific please ?

It does not ship with an image viewer (and you can't install it, since there there is no store support).

What are you talking about ?  Viewer ? Geez... if you can not live without Windows Store to have your application/program to be installed at your computer, or you just can not install programs manually like running SETUP.EXE and etc, then I just don't have words anymore. 

Geezz .. youngsters, old days people do install full fledged serious program even by batch file.

It has a significantly reduced driver package.

What driver specifically ? Please, be specific ? Especially the one that you mentioned like that made the Windows crippled.

Fyi, currently I'm running Ryzen Matisse, 32GB ECC RAM, Radeon RX580 and Dell Perc H730 (an enterprise grade RAID controller), and all driver actually self downloaded "AUTOMATICALLY' by Windows 10 LTSC once freshly installed, period.

Of course, in order to get the latest bell & whistles like GPU, you need to manually download the bling2 version of GPU driver directly from the manufacturer like AMD Radeon software which has rich features like for gamers, of course this kind of driver NORMALLY is not automatically installed by Windows, you have to manually do it. Or AMD Ryzen Master for tweaking OC-ing, this too. Or let say, example mouse, usually Windows will install generic version of the mouse driver by it self, to have the bling2 full featured driver/apps for the mouse, then you have to manually download and install it. Again, if you depend Microsoft Store just for these, then do not use LTSC.

It is only available for partners or volume licenses.

Nope, you go legit path, call you local "AUTHORIZED" Microsoft Distributor, have you done it ? Just a chit chat will just cost you a phone call.

Amazing for the ATM. Poor for your home pc.

Be specific what "limitation" that you have experienced ? Not just arm chair expert.

Again, if you're complaining that you can not live without Microsoft Store, Edge, Cortana, or the OS is constantly spamming you to install games, One Drive and etc, clearly LTSC is not suitable for you, just stay with your Windows 10 Retail version.

I don't expect a Windows 11 soon.
It has no image viewer, which means you have to install a third party one (eg: irfanview) since the microsoft one depends on parts that have been removed.
It only supports recent silicons. New Ryzen 4000 apu's? Not happening.
I've prepared a few ltsc industrial systems over the years to know what it can and can't do.
Some applications also don't work on ltsc like visual studio and some convoluted sap things. Haven't tested office things, but I expect the cloud stuff to not be supported.
And yes, local reseller won't sell them without hardware.

[BravoV]

Hint 

SHA256: B570DDFDC4672F4629A95316563DF923BD834AEC657DE5D4CA7C7EF9B58DF2B1

  

Sorry, one more question. Does the ISO change at every update? So is this SHA256 related to the last one?? 

The English x64 LTSC version I downloaded from the Microsoft page has a different hash:

C:\Users\user\Downloads>certUtil -hashfile 17763.107.101029-1455.rs5_release_svc_refresh_CLIENT_LTSC_EVAL_x64FRE_en-us
.iso SHA256
SHA256 hash of file 17763.107.101029-1455.rs5_release_svc_refresh_CLIENT_LTSC_EVAL_x64FRE_en-us.iso:
66 8f e1 af 70 c2 f7 41 63 28 ae e3 a0 bb 06 6b 12 dc 6b bd 25 76 f4 0f 81 2b 95 74 1e 18 bc 3a
CertUtil: -hashfile command completed successfully.

It installed fine on VMware Player 15.5, but you cannot use their assisted install but instead install it manually (short clip)

So far it looks quite alright; the system is quite clean and it has Internet Explorer just to download and install Firefox. I don't see any Cortana, Search, Telemetry and other shenanigans. So far so good. Got to find a SSD.

Rafael,

Yes, the evaluation ISO hash is different, I got mine from local distributor (a legit authorized MS distributor), and that hash I posted was mine, and out of curiosity when I google it (with my hash), the internet has tons of them. 

About your experience in VM, I can't comment as I installed at bare metal, and no evaluation options to choose, it just asked for the key at installation, thats all.

Suggesting bare metal installation, not under VM, just try it till you are satisfy, and then scrap it.

Yes, those so called shenanigans  on ordinary version, Cortana, Edge, nagging you constantly like OneDrive, games like Minecraft and etc, I know you can disable them, but its just feel dirty.  Just look at the freshly installed start menu, just blank & clean, no distractions at all.

Really like to hear your opinion and experiences, once you played with it for a while, especially with your current hardware and your most used programs running in that LTSC.

[BravoV]

It has no image viewer, which means you have to install a third party one (eg: irfanview) since the microsoft one depends on parts that have been removed.

What is wrong by installing 3rd party app, eg:irfanview for image viewer ? Beside Microsoft basic apps are mediocre or poor, like Paint ? 

Off topic, my fav image viewer, probably one of the fastest and snappier in the world, slim & mean, open source, utilizes multicores, AVX2 and etc.

-> https://sourceforge.net/projects/jpegview/

It only supports recent silicons. New Ryzen 4000 apu's? Not happening.

Not planning on Ryzen 4000, and don't know, but my current Matisse Ryzen Zen2 just runs flawlessly.

I've prepared a few ltsc industrial systems over the years to know what it can and can't do.
Some applications also don't work on ltsc like visual studio and some convoluted sap things. Haven't tested office things, but I expect the cloud stuff to not be supported.

I have Office 2019 installed, runs flawlessly. 

[BravoV]

I find this video below, is excellent explaing what is LTSC, it's pro and con. 

As I hinted "phone call" to local Microsoft distributor, its literally phone call, as when it comes to buying their product, trust me, its like flea market, do NOT trust everything you read in the web, even Microsoft's. 

Pay attention on the buying LTSC in the video, let me share my secret, I have friend who works at big corporation, his role as procurement manager, and part of his role is dealing with local Microsoft distributor, and mostly the deal reached 5 digits US$. Again, its like flea market, everything you read about the rule about the procurement rule in Microsoft product, doesn't mean shit. My friend simply tell the distributor, that asked them to sell LTSC licences to me (as his friend) and him as well and got pretty good bargain. 

As I mentioned before, Windows 10 is shit, but because of the burden of bread & butter, I must endure it, and currently I opted the most less shit among them. 

Its not for everybody, yes, but if you just want stable platform, say for next few years, no bling2 stuff and not advance gamer, no bloatwares and no craps installed, I think you should consider it. Btw, friend installed Steam at LTSC and plays a lot of new games which required advance new hardware, they work just fine.

Suggest to watch till the end, especially once he finished the installation and showed the freshly installed LTSC looks like, say compared to ordinary home W10.

[Jeroen3]

It has no image viewer, which means you have to install a third party one (eg: irfanview) since the microsoft one depends on parts that have been removed.

What is wrong by installing 3rd party app, eg:irfanview for image viewer ? Beside Microsoft basic apps are mediocre or poor, like Paint ? 

Most IT people really don't like installing apps like that on an endpoint.

[BravoV]

It has no image viewer, which means you have to install a third party one (eg: irfanview) since the microsoft one depends on parts that have been removed.

What is wrong by installing 3rd party app, eg:irfanview for image viewer ? Beside Microsoft basic apps are mediocre or poor, like Paint ? 

Most IT people really don't like installing apps like that on an endpoint.

Ah ..  I get it now, you are talking PC used in enterprise office environment, that everything must be properly supplied and standardized by IT department.

I am talking about using slim & mean Windows OS that going to used in "personal PC" at home, where we are WILLINGLY install what ever apps we like to install by our self, yes, that includes manually download it from the software author say like LTSpice and manually install it like running SETUP.EXE or MSI files for example.

[rdl]

I've not had use for any Windows "Features" in years. I highly prefer 3rd party utilities, open source if possible. I guess it's good to know Steam and games will work on LTSC. Games are about the only thing Windows is useful for anymore, at least for me. Steam has turned into yet another butt-sniffing piece of malware, unfortunately it's hard to avoid completely if you want to play the newest games.

I'm curious to see how the "evaluation" period is implemented now. Windows 7 had a flaw/exploit. The time limit was only checked at boot. If you never rebooted, the evaluation period never expired. I've read that there is now an automatic reboot/restart when in evaluation mode, maybe as an attempt to fix that exploit. However, I've also read there is a Registry setting (of course) that will stop this from happening.

[0db]

On "Windows 10S" you can install ONLY applications from the Microsoft Store.
The "S" stands for "Secure". And it has a very severe restriction.

[BravoV]

I've not had use for any Windows "Features" in years. I highly prefer 3rd party utilities, open source if possible. I guess it's good to know Steam and games will work on LTSC. Games are about the only thing Windows is useful for anymore, at least for me. Steam has turned into yet another butt-sniffing piece of malware, unfortunately it's hard to avoid completely if you want to play the newest games.

Yep, infact some really good closed source app say like LTSpice for example, currently I'm running under virtualization at Linux host. I put my important data at separate drives and NAS btw, anything bad at the Windows OS , just restore the working virtualization image, and took very little effort.

I'm curious to see how the "evaluation" period is implemented now. Windows 7 had a flaw/exploit. The time limit was only checked at boot. If you never rebooted, the evaluation period never expired. I've read that there is now an automatic reboot/restart when in evaluation mode, maybe as an attempt to fix that exploit. However, I've also read there is a Registry setting (of course) that will stop this from happening.

Good luck on your quest, really curious how you end up with.

[BravoV]

On "Windows 10S" you can install ONLY applications from the Microsoft Store.
The "S" stands for "Secure". And it has a very severe restriction.

All my applications are installed manually thru traditional way, download from the software website, run the installation file, thats it. Also LTSC has no Microsoft Store.

Example listing part of my installed apps, all were manually installed.

[Zucca]

thanks BravoV, excellent infos.

[rdl]

Windows 10S still exists?

I always thought of S as standing for Scam or Shortchanged, but I see now it's called "S Mode" and apparently can be one-way upgraded to a full version for free.

[BravoV]

All my applications are installed manually

is it "Windows10" or "Windows10S" ?

Its Windows 10 LTSC, details at my posts with screen shots, just scroll back few pages.

[rsjsouza]

It has no image viewer, which means you have to install a third party one (eg: irfanview) since the microsoft one depends on parts that have been removed.

What is wrong by installing 3rd party app, eg:irfanview for image viewer ? Beside Microsoft basic apps are mediocre or poor, like Paint ? 

Most IT people really don't like installing apps like that on an endpoint.

Ah ..  I get it now, you are talking PC used in enterprise office environment, that everything must be properly supplied and standardized by IT department.

I am talking about using slim & mean Windows OS (...)

The usage and setup expectations are different indeed, although our IT department rarely recommends anything straight from Microsoft: 7zip, Acrobat Reader, Screenpresso, Chrome or Firefox, etc. All available for download from an internal portal (which I imagine it was vetted by them). Not only that, but they image a standard baseline straight to each station. (I agree it may demand extra labor to do that).

Regarding the image viewer, I personally throw that garbage in the trash whenever possible after one of its ancient versions used to re-encode JPEGs when you simply rotated the picture on it (not deliberately saving). Irfanview FTW (although it requires a license for commercial environments).

[rsjsouza]

Really like to hear your opinion and experiences, once you played with it for a while, especially with your current hardware and your most used programs running in that LTSC.

Yeah, I will try on a SSD I removed from an old netbook of mine. I hope the Extreme EX58 with a six core Xeon works fine. If not, I would just have spent a few minutes on it.

[twix8386]

This is a bit weird in my opinion and sounds like a myth, because what is the relationship between system-wide shortcuts like (alt + tab) related to war or army? : -DD Even if it was under pressure from the army, it was the right decision. However, this is similar to Windows policy. For example, Windows 10 Pro n practically does not differ from the simple version. For example, it is only used for work, because it is impossible to listen to music or watch a movie there due to the lack of an audio player. There are also huge advantages that are only suitable for a working atmosphere and nothing more. If you are also interested to see the differences between the versions, then you are here https://techplugged.com/what-is-the-windows-10-pro-n-edition/

[Mr. Scram]

Most IT people really don't like installing apps like that on an endpoint.

Apps like what? Third party tools and apps are widely used and installed, especially utility ones.

[nigelwright7557]

Windows 10 ? Windows 7 ?

A lot of my ebay customers are still using XP ! (I am a software developer)
Not sure if its because they are happy with it or just too tight to upgrade or frightened/unable to upgrade.
Probably short sighted from a security point of view.