Author Topic: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal (Read 1022184 times)

steveg · « **Reply #1650 on:** January 30, 2015, 01:06:00 pm »

Cynfab - Thank you for replying. I was able to get your Seek_2.0.py running on my Raspberry Pi. I had to change all occurances of "Image.frombytes" to "Image.fromstring" Maybe a different version of PIL? I was getting "attribute not found" errors with "Image.frombytes" Speed is 0.45 frames per sec.

Thanks for sharing your code!

Steve

eneuro · « **Reply #1651 on:** January 30, 2015, 05:36:28 pm »

Quote from: efahrenholz on January 30, 2015, 04:21:10 am

That appears to be almost like the Bible for thermal imaging engineers.

Maybe adding "site:......." to Google search could help find it, but due to new Google policy do not expect find it on top of serch results

Anyway, there are many interesting things about thermal imaging available for free like this

Performance Metrics for Fire Fighting Thermal
Imaging Cameras – Small- and Full-Scale
Experiments
http://fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/fire08/PDF/f08017.pdf

efahrenholz · « **Reply #1652 on:** January 30, 2015, 10:52:35 pm »

Eneuro,

Thanks for the advice and I'll give that resource a read. In the first few pages of that book I listed, I learned that every 1C of change in temperature of a surface at the 3-5um range emits a larger change in spectral radiation, but at 8-14um the overall radiation is much stronger. Interesting tidbits. So our vanadium oxide sensors, while more sensitive to thermal radiation, require a larger temperature difference to create more contrast in an image.That predicts a little about the excessive noise seen over small temperature spans. There isn't enough difference in pixel value from say, 1C to 2C, to bring a large separation in values, so noise in smaller sensors like the Seek appears to swamp the signal. When you attempt to see a difference, noise tends to dominate the palette.

I wish I could have read more. I'm a sponge for knowledge and I always appreciate when someone with a solid source corrects me or provides some reading material. When I get more pieces, the picture becomes easier to see, and the missing parts easier to imagine.

barehill · « **Reply #1653 on:** February 01, 2015, 12:52:35 am »

Efarenholz
Its instructive to study black body radiation curves for bb's at various temperatures. Notice the relative emission at various wavelengths and how it changes with temp. The Seek bolometer responds accordingly.

pizzigri · « **Reply #1654 on:** February 02, 2015, 02:38:39 pm »

Wow.
This thread is amazing, and although I am an absolute no one compared to you all, I wanted to contribute in some way.
I received a sample SeeK Thermal XR a few days back. I can compare it to a standard SeeK, and post the results. Alas, I cannot take it apart safely, and i would be of no use anyway due to lack of gear - and knowledge on how to use it. So all I can do, is post pictures!

Here's a little comparison between the two TICs

Note the size of the objective lens:

About focussing. The objective lens does not move at all rotating the focusing ring, so i guess there's another element inside that actually moves - the feedback is also terrible, not smooth at all. But has no backlash.

How I tested:

Not professional, but at least this way I could compare actual FOV of both seek's.

original Seek:

color palette

B&W

Seek XR:

color palette

B&W

How near can I focus?

about two inches... here's the image in visible light:

(I think I rotated it wrong, just realized it)

Sorry i could not do more than this... I need to buy a cable to test these in a PC, have any suggestion on which cable will work?

efahrenholz · « **Reply #1655 on:** February 02, 2015, 03:06:02 pm »

Pizzigri, thanks for the images. As expected, same performance. Only major differences being the longer focal length, no aperture limiting rubber mask and it has a focus assembly.

Uho · « **Reply #1656 on:** February 02, 2015, 03:06:38 pm »

Thank you. An interesting comparison. This is a photo with a maximum zoom? I'm on the photo with the cat. Can only adjust the focus?

Fraser · « **Reply #1657 on:** February 02, 2015, 06:34:50 pm »

33% extra on the price for that ! Nah, I'll pass

Maybe they should have spent their development money improving the image processing to something a bit more 'advanced' and then thought about adding to the camera collection. Poor image clarity at wide angle and telephoto FOV's is still a poor image at the end of the day.

As with Mike, I have lost interest in this product, it promised much in the pre-release blurb/images and, IMHO, has not delivered the images expected of it. I am not surprised though, as the camera is aimed at a very low price point. It just doesn't meet my needs. There are many who will be very happy to have any form of thermal imaging capability however and I understand that. For me it has moved into the 'toy' classification however. They are still selling for >£200 on e*ay UK so maybe time to recover my outlay.

Aurora

Fraser · « **Reply #1658 on:** February 02, 2015, 10:48:59 pm »

It was an interesting journey but it is time for me to move on from this unit. My SEEK is going to the deserving home of a fellow EEVBlog member. I hope he finds it adequate for his needs.

I also hope this camera evolves into something great, but I have neither the time nor patience for SEEK to get their act together on this project. TTFN

Aurora

efahrenholz · « **Reply #1659 on:** February 03, 2015, 03:57:32 am »

That's a good noble deed Aurora. Hopefully the recipient makes good use out of the unit. For me, my unit is destined to be parted out to people who have working sensors but need some good pieces.

At this point im looking forward to the new flir one. That thing is going to be a beast.

Uho · « **Reply #1660 on:** February 03, 2015, 06:30:24 am »

efahrenholz
You gave someone a lens? I broke her during the tests. I really need a lens.

Justinpiggy · « **Reply #1661 on:** February 03, 2015, 07:14:04 am »

Quote from: pizzigri on February 02, 2015, 02:38:39 pm

Wow.
This thread is amazing, and although I am an absolute no one compared to you all, I wanted to contribute in some way.
I received a sample SeeK Thermal XR a few days back. I can compare it to a standard SeeK, and post the results. Alas, I cannot take it apart safely, and i would be of no use anyway due to lack of gear - and knowledge on how to use it. So all I can do, is post pictures!

Here's a little comparison between the two TICs

Note the size of the objective lens:

About focussing. The objective lens does not move at all rotating the focusing ring, so i guess there's another element inside that actually moves - the feedback is also terrible, not smooth at all. But has no backlash.

How I tested:

Not professional, but at least this way I could compare actual FOV of both seek's.

original Seek:

color palette

B&W

Seek XR:

color palette

B&W

How near can I focus?

about two inches... here's the image in visible light:

(I think I rotated it wrong, just realized it)

Sorry i could not do more than this... I need to buy a cable to test these in a PC, have any suggestion on which cable will work?

Thanks for your photos. I have also placed an order for XR, however I'm not in US so I still have to wait

It would be great if you could test the gradient issue by just pointing the XR lens to something closely and take the photo. The issue may arise after continuously imaging, so please let it stay on for couple of minutes before doing the test.

Fraser · « **Reply #1662 on:** February 03, 2015, 02:25:30 pm »

@Justinpiggy

SEEK Thermal believe that the new version 1.74 software release has addressed the gradient issue. It certainly worked well on my camera. From a small gradient in version 1.3 to no grafdient visible in 1.74. No harm in checking the XR though

Checking the XR with software 1.3 or 1.4 would reveal whether SEEK made any hardware improvements to address the level of gradient. I would not count on such an improvement though.

Aurora

-jeffB · « **Reply #1663 on:** February 03, 2015, 03:57:50 pm »

Quote from: pizzigri on February 02, 2015, 02:38:39 pm

I received a sample SeeK Thermal XR a few days back. I can compare it to a standard SeeK, and post the results. Alas, I cannot take it apart safely, and i would be of no use anyway due to lack of gear - and knowledge on how to use it. So all I can do, is post pictures!
[...]
About focussing. The objective lens does not move at all rotating the focusing ring, so i guess there's another element inside that actually moves - the feedback is also terrible, not smooth at all. But has no backlash.

Wow, thanks for posting!

So, with the Seek XR in hand, you are confirming that it does not "zoom" as SeeK said, but just provides adjustable focus?

If it does actually change the "zoom" as you rotate the lens, can you post two images from the same camera/subject position, one with the lens rotated all the way in one direction, and one with it all the way in the other direction?

Thanks again!

Uho · « **Reply #1664 on:** February 03, 2015, 04:03:05 pm »

I conducted tests with other lenses. Is the gradient. Gradient not only the original lens and the original tube. When the lens is moved it can be. To check. Today held a test range. Made lens X1.7. Got 20 degrees. As the new Seek. Detection range up to 120m person. You need to use a black and white palette. When using a color palette less. 600m - a fairy tale. They are lying again. pizzigri can do the test. I think the result will be similar.

-jeffB · « **Reply #1665 on:** February 03, 2015, 04:24:59 pm »

Okay, after a quick Google trawl, it looks like the "3X optical zoom" claim only appeared in the first day or two of the CES debut. SeeK themselves appear not to be making that claim "in print"; I assume at this point that the new feature is strictly focus, not any kind of actual zoom.

From pizzigri's photos, it looks like the new unit has a slightly larger aperture. Is there any hope that this is true? Perhaps the old version was "stopped down" to improve its depth of (non-adjustable) focus, and the new version's adjustable focus permits a wider aperture (and, potentially, greater sensitivity)?

pizzigri · « **Reply #1666 on:** February 03, 2015, 04:36:32 pm »

Sorry! Did not have access to the web other than my iphone, so I could not easily reply.

OK. First thing, YES, I confirm that the lens only focuses, no zoom. There is only one rotating ring on the objective, and that is for focusing from about two inches (actually slightly less than 5cm) to infinity. No infinity stop either, so it actually focuses a bit beyond infinity... at least on my sample, which is one of the very first batches made for evaluation.

No gradient issue, whatsoever, but as Aurora justily pointed out, I'm using 1.7.4 so... but, there's this interesting info.
The About page on the app reports the following,

camera hardware for both units is 0.0.0.5
and also everything else is perfectly the same, only the SN is different.
What I have seen is extremely poor performance in very cold weather (after the Blizzard that hit New England), to the point of almost not producing a usable image.
The performance is bearable in moderate climate or indoors.
After a little while the image muddles up a lot, sometimes it works better, sometimes worse and I cant figure out what really triggers it. The sw is buggy with the XR as well, always popping up the question on what to do when the camera is attached to the phone.
I'm still happy, because the first Seek made me discover this world, and I'm so hooked that I even managed to get a great deal on a uuused BAE Systems SC500 MicroIR core that I am experimenting with (BTW, since I'm a complete NOOB on electronics stuff, and I don't want to hijack this thread, could a gentle soul point me to which forum dept could I start a thread to get help with this core?).

On the aperture issue, I'm not too sure. Aperture is function of the focal length, and since the XR has a FOV of 20°, instead of 36°, so it could be that the actual F-number, whatever that may be, is the same.

pizzigri · « **Reply #1667 on:** February 03, 2015, 04:41:28 pm »

Quote from: Uho on February 03, 2015, 04:03:05 pm

I conducted tests with other lenses. Is the gradient. Gradient not only the original lens and the original tube. When the lens is moved it can be. To check. Today held a test range. Made lens X1.7. Got 20 degrees. As the new Seek. Detection range up to 120m person. You need to use a black and white palette. When using a color palette less. 600m - a fairy tale. They are lying again. pizzigri can do the test. I think the result will be similar.

Ahh, absolutely. I can "see" a person from my porch to the street which is roughly 150 meters away, measured with a a laser rangefinder but, further than that, not reliably. I can see a fire quite far away though... 600 mt away is way above what this thing can do in my opinion.
I can take a picture of a person that is about 150 mt away and post it later on - just to give a reference.

Uho · « **Reply #1668 on:** February 03, 2015, 04:52:46 pm »

I measured the distance when the air temperature +5 degrees Celsius. At a lower temperature range is very small. The noise is very large. Very interesting to see the photos.

Uho · « **Reply #1669 on:** February 03, 2015, 05:22:56 pm »

People on the Imager SeeK Thermal. Distance to the people on the road 60m. Air temperature 5. A lens with an increase in X1.7.
http://youtu.be/dsmSIGxz4HQ

Uho · « **Reply #1670 on:** February 05, 2015, 11:42:48 am »

Original + lens X1.7

encryptededdy · « **Reply #1671 on:** February 05, 2015, 11:22:29 pm »

Now $249 on Amazon too.

tom66 · « **Reply #1672 on:** February 07, 2015, 03:23:41 pm »

Does anyone have a copy of the latest APK? Does this work with the Galaxy S3? (I have an S4, but it's broken, so I'm borrowing a friend's S3.)

I can't seem to get the 1.7.4 APK to install on the S3.

Uho · « **Reply #1673 on:** February 08, 2015, 07:47:01 am »

Use the program raccoon-3.3.exe. Download with it.

YewSuck · « **Reply #1674 on:** February 08, 2015, 08:10:13 am »

Quote from: tom66 on February 07, 2015, 03:23:41 pm

Does anyone have a copy of the latest APK? Does this work with the Galaxy S3? (I have an S4, but it's broken, so I'm borrowing a friend's S3.)

I can't seem to get the 1.7.4 APK to install on the S3.

The Seek Software requires at least an Android 4.3 OS to run. I use 4.4.2 on my S2 and the Seek app works. You might need to upgrade your Android OS. I do not believe that 4.2.2 will work.

Here are a few APK downloader Websites.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2636539
http://apps.evozi.com/apk-downloader/?id=com.tyriansystems.SeekThermal
http://apkleecher.com/
http://download.freeapk.ru/en.php
http://apk-dl.com/

It seems to be random for me if these have the latest versions available or even work, but I have used them.

-YS


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Author Topic: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal (Read 1022184 times)

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