Siglent SDS2000X Plus

[tautech]

So while the analog input path may manage high frequencies perfectly fine the BW setting and filtering stages set the frequency rolloff particular to a model which in the case of SDS2104X Plus as we've found is high for a DSO of this class.

So what you said there is what i meant, i.e the bandwidth is there but limited by software function,
so the 2104x should, as the 1104x, be able to be uphacked if software enables that i presume, right?
 

Dave did a related video on how amplitude and BW are controlled in a single chip:
https://www.eevblog.com/2019/07/10/eevblog-1228-do-digital-scopes-have-real-verniers/

Im aware of that video, i dont see Dave talk about BW only the VGA and its BW is quite flat on all gains. Do the 2104x+ use the AD8370 as well?

Maybe, we'll all know soon enough when a teardown is done.

So what you said there is what i meant, i.e the bandwidth is there but limited by software function,
so the 2104x should, as the 1104x, be able to be uphacked if software enables that i presume, right?

Yes, members here already have these hacked and seem shy on disclosing too much in case the door gets closed tighter. However I have been told it's not as straightforward as the 1000X-E models.
More.....sorry you'll have to get that from other members. 

[miyagi]

Hi Martin, yes, I know differences between these two scopes. But I want to know how to upgrade SDS2104X Plus to 350MHz or even 500 MHz, and unlock the software options. I saw tv84 posted the result and you upgraded your 2104 too. But didn't show how to do it. I know the telnet way, but don't have the unit to check. If you can share how you upgraded your 2104, I will be appreciated.

[tautech]

This is wrong.

Aha.

If this (siglenteu located in hamburg, germany) is the wrong contact, shouldn´t they tell me about it instead of doing nothing ?

So Siglent in Hamburg is correct, but you are using America's email address, take a close look. The hamburger looks very different. Look again carefully.

This adresss is wrong "https://www.siglenteu.com/contact-us/" do they even exist? Is it from the USA?

The link above should work as it's posted on a few of Siglent's webpages but if in doubt use the links provided on the HQ page:
https://int.siglent.com/contact/
This lists the contact emails for each marketing region.

[tautech]

A few more minutes investigations..... Power Analysis.
Menu of analysis types:



After selecting Switching Loss or for that matter any of the analysis types a probe connection guide for each type is available as below.



A further improvement might be to label the guide window with the analysis type. This I will send through as a feature request/improvement.

[tautech]

A look at Digital.


The data display line can be placed wherever you choose with the touch display or a mouse. Digital is much nicer viewed with graticules OFF.
Unlike other Siglent models 2kX Plus has a dedicated Zoom button used for entering and exiting Zoom mode.
In Zoom mode the active timebase is surrounded with a dotted line and we can toggle between unzoomed and zoomed display portions with a press of the timebase knob for adjustments of either without having to leave the zoomed display.

[Martin72]

Hi,

After you could play with it a little bit, what are your thoughts on it ?
Is it the "little brother" of the flagship sds5000 and taking therefore the scond place of the siglent scope hierarchy or are some things "better"or "worser" in comparison, also what older models concerns ?

[tautech]

After you could play with it a little bit, what are your thoughts on it ?

It's a very nice DSO for the price, well the 100 MHz version is but they jump up $ from there. Still, it has a good range of analytical capability and effectively has 3 UI's with touch, mouse or the physical controls.

Is it the "little brother" of the flagship sds5000 and taking therefore the second place of the siglent scope hierarchy or are some things "better"or "worser" in comparison, also what older models concerns ?

In some ways SDS2kX Plus has the edge on SDS5kX particularly in the front panel layout which has been given more thought and departed a little from Siglent's traditional layout.
Until the feature set if further aligned it's not fair to prefer one UI over the other as there's little reason why they won't in time be very similar.

One does notice how the lesser used Search, Navigate, History and Decode buttons are placed at the bottom which allows for a better front panel layout than SDS5kX for the more often used controls although with 2kX Plus it's not long before one is tempted to try a mouse and soon you find yourself using all 3 UI's and it's nice to have the choice however everyone will have preferences to what suits them best.
How do you find yourself using yours Martin ?

I really haven't spent lots of time with this 2104X Plus but enough to display some level of proficiency when I get to demonstrate it to customers.

All in all 5kX and 2kX Plus are both fairly feature rich DSO's and trialling either for less than a couple of days would do them each a disservice.

[KeBeNe]

Hi there,
I also made measurements on the SDS2104X +, these are about the same as Tautech's.
RF source: R&S SMT06, 1Vpeak to peak / 50ohm RF (around 4.6dbm), measured 3db points:
C1 = 175Mhz;
C2 = 184Mhz;
C3 = 178Mhz;
C4 = 183Mhz;

and again the complete frequency response from 10Khz to 1Ghz, 0dbm signal on C1 in 50ohm mode

[Martin72]

I think, I´ve already mentioned here:

It would be helpful when the function channel in it´s "box" would show which function is selected and from which source (channel).

Edit like this:

(Taken from lecroy ws3000/siglent sds3000)

[KeBeNe]

I made another frequency response sweep, this time with an SDS2354 + with 500Mhz option

[Martin72]

So "we" got "real" 500Mhz scopes...

[KeBeNe]

Hello,

There are also some bugs with the markers, I think Siglent will fix that step by step...

[Martin72]

How do you find yourself using yours Martin ?

Want to try to use it more with a mouse, somtimes it´s more comfortabler (and more precise) than touch - And you musn´t often clean the screen...

[tv84]

I made another frequency response sweep, this time with an SDS2354 + with 500Mhz option

Try to show us where you have the -3dB mark.

[TK]

Hi there,
I also made measurements on the SDS2104X +, these are about the same as Tautech's.
RF source: R&S SMT06, 1Vpeak to peak / 50ohm RF (around 4.6dbm), measured 3db points:
C1 = 175Mhz;
C2 = 184Mhz;
C3 = 178Mhz;
C4 = 183Mhz;

and again the complete frequency response from 10Khz to 1Ghz, 0dbm signal on C1 in 50ohm mode

Are you using the FRA tool in the SDS2104X+ scope?

[tautech]

I think, I´ve already mentioned here:

It would be helpful when the function channel in it´s "box" would show which function is selected and from which source (channel). (Attachment Link)

Edit like this: (Attachment Link)

(Taken from lecroy ws3000/siglent sds3000)

Yes adding to the channel tab the name/type of Math by default will be useful however SDS2kX Plus gives us the option to name any/all of the traces on the display using the inbuilt virtual keyboard.

So yes there is room for further polishing but what we have already is sufficient if only we chose to use it. 

[Martin72]

Well....
In this case by default was the easier way instead and it shouldn´t be that great thing to implementing it.
Hope you´ll forwarded this.

[KeBeNe]

Are you using the FRA tool in the SDS2104X+ scope?

Hello,

no, i´m  set the RF Source to sweep mode (10Khz to 1Ghz, Step 10Khz, Dwell 50ms) an set the Sds2KX+ to FFT and peak hold

@TV84
the -3db is around 580Mhz

[pipe2null]

So it seems that measured BW is a good data point to add to the comparison of (improved) SDS2kX+ vs MSO5000...  Some people claimed the 350MHz (improved) Rigol was around 480MHz BW, but that was measured with a pulse.  AFAIK no one did an actual frequency sweep and posted it to the forum.  But then again, there is a ridiculous number of posts on that model and I probably missed something...

[jemangedeslolos]

The SDS2000X+ is very attrative....but the MSO5000 was released 1.5 years ago.
At least 50% of post are related to hacking or how to hack 
It costs less, some people here are working on cheap logic probe, 2 x more GSa/s, vertical control for all channels, comes with 350Mhz probes.

The MSO still have some nice feature : better math function I think, HDMI output, more trigger, more wfms/s ( but Martin72 have to measure that for science ).

You have to make the choice according to your needs and priorities, but I'm not sure that Rigol is very worried.

[tautech]

So it seems that measured BW is a good data point to add to the comparison of (improved) SDS2kX+ vs MSO5000...  Some people claimed the 350MHz (improved) Rigol was around 480MHz BW, but that was measured with a pulse.  AFAIK no one did an actual frequency sweep and posted it to the forum.  But then again, there is a ridiculous number of posts on that model and I probably missed something...

Those that have swept SDS2354X Plus have done so with the 500 MHz option enabled so no contest against any 350 MHz rated DSO.......apples vs oranges. 

[KeBeNe]

So it seems that measured BW is a good data point to add to the comparison of (improved) SDS2kX+ vs MSO5000...  Some people claimed the 350MHz (improved) Rigol was around 480MHz BW, but that was measured with a pulse.  AFAIK no one did an actual frequency sweep and posted it to the forum.  But then again, there is a ridiculous number of posts on that model and I probably missed something...

i posted a sweep here -> https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hacking-the-rigol-mso5000-series-oscilloscopes/msg2134381/#msg2134381


I have the Rigol MSO 5K, an SDS2KX and SDS2KX +

the Rigol really has a lot of functions, 8Gs etc., but somehow the Rigol doesn't run as smoothly as Siglent, it hangs from time to time.
I think it's underdeveloped.
Maybe Rigol makes the MSO5K a nice scope, but it is currently at the bottom of my ranking.

That only corresponds to my experience and opinion.

best regards René

[pipe2null]

i posted a sweep here -> https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hacking-the-rigol-mso5000-series-oscilloscopes/msg2134381/#msg2134381

Thanks, I missed that one.

Those that have swept SDS2354X Plus have done so with the 500 MHz option enabled so no contest against any 350 MHz rated DSO.......apples vs oranges. 

True.  My comment was more from the perspective of current "hack-champion".  The MSO5k is still the winner due to base model price plus a few features, but the additional $ to get the SDS2kX+ comes with real HW value and not just a better UI and stability, etc.  The spec difference is one thing, but seeing the actual measured BW results posted here makes me scratch my chin a bit more and encourages me to find more excuses to rationalize the extra $ for the SDS2kX+.   

I have a fully "upgraded" MSO5072 on my bench now.  I've been debating over the past few months about switching to the SDS2kX+ for similar reasons as Martin72 did.

[tautech]

Those that have swept SDS2354X Plus have done so with the 500 MHz option enabled so no contest against any 350 MHz rated DSO.......apples vs oranges. 

True.  My comment was more from the perspective of current "hack-champion".  The MSO5k is still the winner due to base model price plus a few features, but the additional $ to get the SDS2kX+ comes with real HW value and not just a better UI and stability, etc.  The spec difference is one thing, but seeing the actual measured BW results posted here makes me scratch my chin a bit more and encourages me to find more excuses to rationalize the extra $ for the SDS2kX+.   

I have a fully "upgraded" MSO5072 on my bench now.  I've been debating over the past few months about switching to the SDS2kX+ for similar reasons as Martin72 did.

IMO it's a bit more complex than just base price vs BW hackability as the option suite available should have some bearing on any DSO selected.
Hell if you just need 350 MHz the 'upgraded' SDS2202X-E for $619 can do that. 

[Martin72]

The MSO still have some nice feature : better math function I think, HDMI output, more trigger, more wfms/s ( but Martin72 have to measure that for science ).

"Better" math....more math - But this could be "corrected" via fw upgrade if siglent want it.
HDMI Output, indeed nice - If you need it.
But you could also use the webserver for presentation so no worry at all.
More trigger….have to look at it.
But it got indeed more wfms/s, up to over 500000 wfms/s in normal mode, I´ve meausered it months ago on work.
Want to take the siglent at work also, but we´re very busy since beginning of the year so I didn´t it so far.
Took a rigol ds1054z at home to measure the wfms/s of the 2k+, but the results were irritating (much less than 120000 and very instable) and I want to measure it again with another scope.

The rigol 5000 is a raw diamond, no question.
But i've been waiting over a year for them to sharpen it into a real diamond.