Siglent SDS2000X Plus

[tautech]

With respect to the use of zoom, on the 1000X-E series, it does not work with the digital channels.   Given how the scope works, this is, of course, a massive problem, because it forces one to stop the scope in order to zoom in and look around.

Does the 2000X Plus have this limitation with its digital channels?   If not, then that would make it a very tempting upgrade.

SDS5000X doesn't so one would presume 2kX Plus doesn't either but I don't have stock at present to know 100%.

All a 2kX Plus owner need do is press Digital then timebase to enter zoom and in reverse to get back to previous settings.

[Elasia]

Works fine.. and I extensively use it daily

[casterle]

And here is the original version (https://repl.it/repls/PrettyAbleGuiltware#main.py)

When I go to one of the 'repl.it' sites, I get a message about the repl needing an owner with no apparent way to download the script. How does one go about downloading?

[tubularnut]

And here is the original version (https://repl.it/repls/PrettyAbleGuiltware#main.py)

When I go to one of the 'repl.it' sites, I get a message about the repl needing an owner with no apparent way to download the script. How does one go about downloading?

Are you after this? https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-hack/msg3323984/#msg3323984

[mysiak]

Isn't this functionality part of the Power Analyzer ?

User's manual p. 257 mentions THD.

[casterle]

Are you after this? https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-hack/msg3323984/#msg3323984

Thanks, that is probably all I need. But I'm still curious about accessing the 'repls'.

[NCG]

So... is the DVM code from 5000 series in there (2000 series) and just a menu option disabled?

[Zlotnik]

Just got a R&S RTB2004 at work today. I was pleasantly surprised that it boots in about 10s!...

Actually it is interesting to compare it to the SDS2000X+, and I could elaborate on my tests/impressions, if anyone are interested...

Yes! I would be interested - did you get round to posting that comparison anywhere?

R&S’ fully-loaded RTB2K-COM4 offer is quite appealing, and the RTB series seems not only powerful but also seems to have a very well thought-out UI in particular for protocol decoding, which is a priority for me since this is one thing I hate about my DS1054Z.
The SDS2k+ seems to be generally better in the UI regard than the Rigol 5000, but I wonder how it compares to the RTB. The Siglent’s hackability makes the RTB like x3 more expensive for the home-lab, after all.
Therefore I’m really curious about hands-on experience of annoying real-life quirks compared for RTB2k and SDS2k+.

[maxspb69]

More than 2 years I have RTB2002 (200MHz with full options + LA) in my homelab and recently purchased SDS2104X + (mainly due to the 4 channels).
To compare briefly:

RTB2000 + (compared to SDS2000Xplus)
 - Very high quality of LCD, the viewing angles are large and the resolution is noticeably higher (1280x800 versus 1024x600)
 - real 10 bits ADC over the entire band decide when to observe small noisy signals.
 - excellent UI an control knobs responsiveness  in any mode and any situation. High quality ("stepped") encoders. Very user-friendly and beautiful interface.
 - high-quality rendering of the waveforms on the screen, no distortion is visible when changing the scale
 - value labels on the grid axes facilitate quick visual assessment of signal parameters
 - Built-in AWG with excellent parameters and capabilities
 - A advanced "Pattern Generator" very useful in development.
- 1.25Gsamples  for Logic Analyzer

RTB2000 - (compared to SDS2000Xplus)
 - Not hackable! (the main disadvantage of these devices, all option very expencive!
  - weak math (in the latest firmware version it was improved)
  - few kinds of decoders (I2C, SPI, UART, CAN, LIN) and only 2 data signals can be decoded at the same time
 -  few types of triggers
-   no 50Ω inputs and automatic probe attenuation detection

SDS2000X Plus + (comparatively RTB2000)
 - A large number of triggers with broad capabilities
 - A huge number of protocol decoders with a large number of settings
- 50Ω and automatic detection of probe attenuation
- Ability of arbitrary choice the colors for all types of waveforms (for me, as somewhat color blind, this is a very important option, on RTB2000 it is difficult for me to distinguish between yellow and green colors of channels traces - thanks to Siglent!)
 - An interesting and useful (for some users) power analyze option.

SDS2000X Plus - (Compared to RTB2000)
 - The  poor quality of LCD, the viewing angles after RTB2000 are depressing, the resolution is lower.
 - poor waveforms rendering  (distortion when scaling, not very good work of "digital phosphor", there is something to improve)
  - good user interface, but the responsiveness of the encoders knobs leaves much to be desired after RTB2000.
 - no manual memory management and  strange memory management algorithm for the history mode (with continuous loading into memory)
-  only 500Msamples for the LA (Siglent, why???)
- weak in capabilities and parameters (no modulation, 125Msamples per second, indistinct ability to load captured waveforms into the AWG) built-in AWG (but only after RTB2000!

These are some thoughts after one month of working with SDS2000X Plus and more than 2 years with RTB2002.
The main advantage of R&S devices: there may not be very many functions and options, but everything that is, works flawlessly!

Max.

[maxspb69]

For example, video signal on RTB2002 and SDS2104X Plus
(SDS2000X+ screen resolution is scaled to the RTB2002 screen resolution for clarity)

[maxspb69]

Intensity grade rendering  SDS2000X+ and RTB2002

Pay attention, on the R&S, the grid is as if in front of the screen (as analog oscilloscope) and it can be seen even in the solid areas of the waveform. On the Silglent, the waveform always overlaps the grid.

[tv84]

Pay attention, on the R&S, the grid is as if in front of the screen (as analog oscilloscope) and it can be seen even in the solid areas of the waveform. On the Silglent, the waveform always overlaps the grid.

  Interesting detail...

[Zlotnik]

Wow Max, thanks a lot, your direct comparison based on significant hands-on experience is super-useful!

Can I ask some further details?

RTB2000 + (compared to SDS2000Xplus)
[...]
 - real 10 bits ADC over the entire band decide when to observe small noisy signals.

Ah! That is an interesting point indeed, some of my next project ideas will benefit from dynamic range. It's difficult to find system ENOB figures for both scopes though. LeCroy have a "competition comparison" whitepaper, in which they comment on the RTB series that they...

...are straightforwardly advertised as 10-bit ADC resolution with the implication
that they achieve 10-bit noise performance. They decidedly do not come close to 10-bit noise
performance. In fact, they essentially perform as an 8-bit resolution oscilloscope.

OTOH, the SDS2k+ has the reputation here on the forum to have a comparatively low-noise front-end.
Of course LeCroy dissing the RTB as not worthy of comparison with LeCroy 12-bit scopes is difficult to compare with reports of happy users of a hacked "cheap" (relatively speaking) scope...

Could you give a direct 1:1 comparison like the ones you've done for the video and AM modulation signals, but for eg: 100kHz 5Vpp square wave, with a superimposed 1MHz square wave of 5mVpp, then with 10mVpp, 20mVpp, 40mVpp, 80mVpp?
This way, it will be very easy to see real-world benefits (or lack thereof) of a potentially higher system ENOB of the RTB, without going to the trouble of properly measuring ENOB...

[...]
RTB2000 - (compared to SDS2000Xplus)
 - Not hackable! (the main disadvantage of these devices, all option very expencive!

Indeed!
Although even the 70MHz 4ch MSO option is already ~3k€, so one would also have to build DIY logic pods. And compared to the list price of the 70MHz 4ch MSO RTB, the current RTB2K-COM4 all-inclusive bundle is a steal.

  - weak math (in the latest firmware version it was improved)

Do you miss math functions in practice in the latest firmware? Most advanced stuff I was looking for was there (eg integration), but maybe I missed something. For one project I was looking for an exponential function to gain dynamic range with a log-amp, but that is pretty niche and it's not clear how many bits the math output has anyway. If it is the same as the input waveforms, it wouldn't make sense anyway.

Let's not diverge too OT here though, I've posted a dedicated post with the question about math bit-depth: Scope Math Bit Depth

[...]
The main advantage of R&S devices: there may not be very many functions and options, but everything that is, works flawlessly!

Does this mean also the opposite is true, i.e. the SDS2k+ has annoying bugs and quirks that get on your nerves in practice? (Very subjective, I know - but I'd be interested in your experience!)
I find my DS1054Z quite frustrating, this is a motivator for me to move on after a bunch of years now...

Cheers,
Alex

[kde]

Intensity grade rendering  SDS2000X+ and RTB2002

I see from your screenshots that you are using АКИП. As I also see, its interface can be changed to English, right? Good news. But do you still have the Russian labels on all front panel controls (like ВЕРТИК)? (or maybe it's possible to purchase АКИП with English labels).

[Martin72]

Does this mean also the opposite is true, i.e. the SDS2k+ has annoying bugs and quirks that get on your nerves in practice?

See here : Bugs and wanted Features

Nothing really bad...

[maxspb69]

Does this mean also the opposite is true, i.e. the SDS2k+ has annoying bugs and quirks that get on your nerves in practice? (Very subjective, I know - but I'd be interested in your experience!)

What annoys me most -  is the slow response of the horizontal and vertical scale control knobs. If I quickly turn the knob 4 clicks, for example, I expect the parameter to change for 4 steps. But it really turns out to be 1-2 steps, becouse the processor does not have time to work out a fast encoders turn and skips some steps. If you do not rotate quickly, there is no problem.
Otherwise, most  the functionality of the scope, which I tested, works correct.

I can add that, compared to Rigol (I once had 1052, 1074, 2072A), today's Siglent has excellently tested firmware, there are few or no bugs , there are annoying features and imperfections (for example, there is no possibility of decoding 9bits  UART, no brightness indicator on screen while you change brightness), but this is already a matter of personal point of view,  and can be impruved in next firmware versions.

[casterle]

I read in another thread that XYZ mode was on the list for the 5000X and might propagate to this series. Can someone comment on the status of this feature?

[Martin72]

XYZ mode

 

[casterle]

XYZ mode

 

As in analog scopes with a Z channel input.

[maxspb69]

Z - brightness control channel? Why might this be necessary?

Maybe XYZ is the ability to display 3D oscillograms?
Something similar to this:

?

[2N3055]

Z - brightness control channel? Why might this be necessary?

Maybe XYZ is the ability to display 3D oscillograms?
Something similar to this:

?

No. XYZ in analog scope is X-Y with Z as intensity (brightness modulation, used for beam blanking and modulation). You use that to display analog video picture for  instance...
I don't remember when was the last time I needed that..

What you show might be more useful... 

Or X-Y combined with time base for waterfall diagram..

[KungFuJosh]

For example, video signal on RTB2002 and SDS2104X Plus
(SDS2000X+ screen resolution is scaled to the RTB2002 screen resolution for clarity)

That's not a realistic comparison. The resolution difference isn't that big, but any time you stretch pixels higher, they will distort. Your comparison automatically degraded the image quality. For a fair comparison, you should have simply left them at their original sizes.

[maxspb69]

Screenshots from the RTB2000 there on a scale of 1:1 in that post, below for comparison are screenshots from SDS2000X+ without scale. Nothing has changed, in my opinion.
In addition, the forum engine automatically enlarges the pictures.

[casterle]

No. XYZ in analog scope is X-Y with Z as intensity (brightness modulation, used for beam blanking and modulation). You use that to display analog video picture for  instance...

I don't remember when was the last time I needed that..

I saw a video demonstrating using the z channel to create a marker on another channel. I though it was an interesting application. I wasn't planning on using my 'scope as a spare tv.

[Martin72]

Stumbling over the update list, I guess the next firmware update will come in february...