Which Riello models are you recommending?Already deleted before you posted, understood your post wrong. To recommend something, requirements are needed first.
I have messed around with this idea a bit in the past and found that some UPS charge circuits become very unhappy with the low impedance load presented by a discharged capacitor bank. So besides charge balancing, some type of charge control should be added.
Which Riello models are you recommending?Already deleted before you posted, understood your post wrong. To recommend something, requirements are needed first.You claim long battery life. That's the requirement.
Which Riello models are you recommending?Already deleted before you posted, understood your post wrong. To recommend something, requirements are needed first.You claim long battery life. That's the requirement.How one can recommend a model if you don't want to post at least a power required. I could advise 10kVA model but would you want to pay for that (you could just buy Tesla Powerwall)?
I have messed around with this idea a bit in the past and found that some UPS charge circuits become very unhappy with the low impedance load presented by a discharged capacitor bank. So besides charge balancing, some type of charge control should be added.
Which Riello models are you recommending?Already deleted before you posted, understood your post wrong. To recommend something, requirements are needed first.You claim long battery life. That's the requirement.How one can recommend a model if you don't want to post at least a power required. I could advise 10kVA model but would you want to pay for that (you could just buy Tesla Powerwall)?
If you take the time to read my first post, you will find I never asked about battery brands or UPS models. I never stated I needed extended my UPS to to have extended periods of uptime. This is all something you have brought up.
I am not asking you for a recommendation.
You claim to have a combination/s that give you what you feel is an acceptable battery life. I am only asking that you document the specifics of that combination/s.
If you cherry pick, you will continue to be confused.You claim to have a combination/s that give you what you feel is an acceptable battery life. I am only asking that you document the specifics of that combination/s.
It would also be interesting to see some pictures of your UPS systems internals just to get a general idea about them.
What's been your experience with cheep supercaps?
I have messed around with this idea a bit in the past and found that some UPS charge circuits become very unhappy with the low impedance load presented by a discharged capacitor bank. So besides charge balancing, some type of charge control should be added.
I'd not be too worried about balance; leakage is exponential with voltage so they self balance.
Tim
What's been your experience with cheep supercaps?
I think this has not been answered yet for almost two pages of replies.
I guess no one ever experienced these Joe.
I have messed around with this idea a bit in the past and found that some UPS charge circuits become very unhappy with the low impedance load presented by a discharged capacitor bank. So besides charge balancing, some type of charge control should be added.
What capacitors did you use and did you collect any data from them? This is really what I am after.
I have not dug into the details for the UPS I plan to use beyond basic stuff to get a ballpark for the capacitors required. It's interesting that some of the SuperCaps will list UPSs as their targeted application.
The inverter of the UPS will therefore be designed to operate within the extremes of the battery operational points, so 40 volts at the low end and 55 volts at the high end. So doing a quick BoE calc you'll find that about half of the energy stored in the capacitor is never going to get used, so you will probably need to take that into consideration when selecting the caps.
AFAIK, good quality supercaps have a life span of about 10 years. My guess for the cheapies is 5 years.
If you cherry pick, you will continue to be confused.You claim to have a combination/s that give you what you feel is an acceptable battery life. I am only asking that you document the specifics of that combination/s.It's what you say now. Back then you asked for models I recommend. Why asking at all if not interested to begin with. What I can say that all our high power Riello UPS over various locations easily lasted 5+ years on the original set of batteries.
I am not suggesting I will do anything with this data but others may find it helpful.
"I think this has not been answered yet for almost two pages of replies.
I guess no one ever experienced these Joe."
Read reply #14 where I went into quite some detail about my initial experience with the exact same cheap supercaps used in the previous video the OP linked to. Perhaps no one noticed.
I have messed around with this idea a bit in the past and found that some UPS charge circuits become very unhappy with the low impedance load presented by a discharged capacitor bank. So besides charge balancing, some type of charge control should be added.
What capacitors did you use and did you collect any data from them? This is really what I am after.
Before buying 35 supercapacitors for a 70 volt system, I did tests using a 100,000uF bank of aluminum electrolytics just to find out what modifications of the UPS charge circuits would be necessary. My test UPS was a Powerware Prestige EXT which uses an inconvenient 5x12V battery configuration.QuoteI have not dug into the details for the UPS I plan to use beyond basic stuff to get a ballpark for the capacitors required. It's interesting that some of the SuperCaps will list UPSs as their targeted application.
They should be great for high reliability high power density line conditioners which is no surprise. The problem is that UPSes intended to use batteries expect a narrow operating voltage range.The inverter of the UPS will therefore be designed to operate within the extremes of the battery operational points, so 40 volts at the low end and 55 volts at the high end. So doing a quick BoE calc you'll find that about half of the energy stored in the capacitor is never going to get used, so you will probably need to take that into consideration when selecting the caps.
Utilizing half of the energy of the capacitor is actually pretty good and what I would aim for minimum. Switching regulators are commonly designed to operate with a 2:1 input range (75%) but wide range 4:1 units (94%) also exist. A UPS intended to use supercapacitors would be designed to handle a wider input voltage range but most of the available energy is returned without going wild.
In a retrofit application, a wide input range high current boost converter could be used to extent the operating time but if you are already getting 50%, I would declare victory and move on.AFAIK, good quality supercaps have a life span of about 10 years. My guess for the cheapies is 5 years.
This can be extended by voltage derating. Electrolysis of the electrolyte increases 10 times for every 0.4 volt increase in voltage and 30C increase in temperature. If you expect the capacitors to last more than 1 year, then do not operate them above 2.6 volts at 35C.
I had read it and it was why I posted about the difference in the leakage currents. Did you measure their capacitance as well? ESR? I wonder how close some of these parts are to their specs.
Changing SLAs to supercaps would require a different charging circuit and a modified battery monitoring. It might be better to design a completely new supercap UPS. Another possibility to simply things is to go for a centralized 12V power supply since most SOHO network/telephone stuff is powered by 12V DC anyway (use DC/DC converters for other voltages). This would be also more efficient than using a cheap SMPSU wall warts for each device. BTW, be aware that some UPS' perform regular self-tests (mine does a 10s test every two weeks).
From my experience with running UPS' I can say that Panasonic SLAs run fine for about 5 years. They also have special SLAs for UPS usage which last longer but are also more expensive. If possible check and adjust the float voltage every few years because a too high voltage reduces the SLA's life span. APC's SmartUPS' have a hidden service menu for that and APC are also known to set the float voltage quite high. Sadly I have to agree that the quality of APC's UPS' went down and that their stickers for battery packs are quite expensive. Since they use Kung Long and other inexpensive brands I wouldn't buy any genuine replacement packs. The change of the control protocol to a top-secret one adds to the impression that APC's main goal became profit optimization. You have to buy a special translation module to be able to use a proper UPS management software.
I am still scratching my head over WHY this idea seems like it solves anything useful.
Big, expensive, and complicated over the option of just using the typical SLA batteries? Is it possible? Sure.
I am still scratching my head over WHY this idea seems like it solves anything useful.
Big, expensive, and complicated over the option of just using the typical SLA batteries? Is it possible? Sure.