EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[EEVblog]

Strangely their press releases seemed to still be going out after the campaign.
---- WARNING BS FOLLOWS ----
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/independent-test-shows-garmin-gps-with-batteriser-sleeve-ran-nearly-six-times-longer-under-the-same-test-condition-300159304.html
http://www.consumerelectronicsnet.com/article/Independent-Test-Shows-Garmin-GPS-with-Batteriser-Sleeve-ran-nearly-six-times-longer-under-the-same-test-condition-4115282

  It's not a true independent test to replicate results. UL was very careful to say that in their "report". Everything, including the DUT, equipment, and procedure was supplied by Batteriser and follow to the letter without question by UL.

[drussell]

Nice to see that at least a few things in their marketing are still consistent...

Batteriser can extend the life of disposable alkaline batteries by up to 800 percent, saving consumers money and saving landfills from toxic battery waste which would result in soil contamination and a laundry list of negative environmental impacts. Batteriser has been tested and proven compatible on a variety of battery-operated home and office gadgets, including wireless keyboards, noise-cancelling headphones, Xbox and Wii controllers, TV remote controls, walkie-talkies, digital scales, electric toothbrushes, toys, portable radios, flashlights, and blood pressure monitors. The company was cofounded by Bob Roohparvar Ph.D. in Electrical Engineering, who holds more than 20 patents in his 30-year career in power management, semiconductors, and consumer products and Frankie Roohparvar well known executive who holds more than 500 patents.

That is a very concise description of the basic premise...   

Can't wait to see real world use on an actual unit.... 

[EEVblog]

November is creeping up fast, and still not a peep out of batteriser...

Nor is anyone bothering to ask for updates on the campaign comments 
Would be interesting to see is Batterieser volunteer an update without people screaming...

[drussell]

It's not a true independent test to replicate results. UL was very careful to say that in their "report". Everything, including the DUT, equipment, and procedure was supplied by Batteriser and follow to the letter without question by UL.

Yes, I also noticed that and thought it interesting that they are seemingly still trying to play up their bogus test results as being independent while also carefully including the true nature on the sly....

...was tested in a Garmin GPS (with the same test procedure that had been performed in Batteroo's lab) by global independent safety science company UL.

[Fungus]

November is creeping up fast, and still not a peep out of batteriser...

Nor is anyone bothering to ask for updates on the campaign comments 

Many of the 'commenters' were obvious sock puppets.

Yes, I also noticed that and thought it interesting that they are seemingly still trying to play up their bogus test results as being independent while also carefully including the true nature on the sly....

The whole point of doing the UL test was to be able to play it up, so agian ... not surprising at all.

[Muttley Snickers]

Batteriser can extend the life of disposable alkaline batteries by up to 800 percent, saving consumers money and saving landfills from toxic battery waste which would result in soil contamination and a laundry list of negative environmental impacts. Batteriser has been tested and proven compatible on a variety of battery-operated home and office gadgets, including wireless keyboards, noise-cancelling headphones, Xbox and Wii controllers, TV remote controls, walkie-talkies, digital scales, electric toothbrushes, toys, portable radios, flashlights, and blood pressure monitors. The company was cofounded by Bob Roohparvar Ph.D. in Electrical Engineering, who holds more than 20 patents in his 30-year career in power management, semiconductors, and consumer products and Frankie Roohparvar well known executive who holds more than 500 patents.

Question : Do these battery sleeves require some other type of certification or approval before being used in medical devices ? (see quote above), or are there blood pressure monitors that are just a home DIY type of thing ?

Thank the almighty that hearing aids, pacemakers and other important stuff doesn't run on regular batteries, some people could be in a bit of strife otherwise.

[Wytnucls]

Some take 2 AA/AAA batteries. No special certification required.

[GNU_Ninja]

What if batteries leak after being drained of every last watt hour of capacity by any batterisers fitted, and as a result 'gunk up' your nice shiny product?

This is Duracell's guarantee regarding battery defects: http://www.duracell.com/en-us/guarantee  I assume other manufacturers also have something similar.

"Should any device be damaged due to a battery defect, we will repair or replace it at our option. Leaking battery and damaged device must be provided as proof of claim. Duracell may deny claims of damage caused by misuse or modification of the batteries or device."

I suspect Duracell (and other battery manufacturers) will class the fitting of a batteriser sleeve as a "misuse or modification" and refuse any compensation due to leaky batteries which they will claim was caused by the batteriser.

What guarantees (if any) do batteriser provide, regarding their product causing damage to the suckers users shiny products 

The lawyers will love this one 

[firewalker]

@Dave.

What happened to the slow discharge test of the batteries? Did I missed it?

Alexander.

[crispy_tofu]

Some take 2 AA/AAA batteries. No special certification required.

Hmmm... even the expensive ~$1200 ambulatory blood pressure monitors use AA batteries...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LifeSource-TM-2430-Ambulatory-Blood-Pressure-Monitor-/111523061325?hash=item19f74ade4d:g:nvQAAOSwMmBV6ZOO

Looking at the variety of blood pressure monitors, most of them use AA/AAA batteries and/or an AC adapter. 

[EEVblog]

@Dave.
What happened to the slow discharge test of the batteries? Did I missed it?

I got data for 50mW, 20mW and 10mW, but my meter won't support greater length data logging, so I need to set up a different system for that.

[EEVblog]

Update!

Greetings Batteriser Supporters!
We're getting closer to the final production of the Batteriser sleeves. Here's a sneak peek at our progress, plus some cool photos hot off the press!

The form factor of the sleeve has been finalized...meaning it's optimized to be strong enough for reuse, but thin enough to fit inside most battery compartments.

We've spent several months finalizing the top contact of the Batteriser. The challenge was to engineer the top contact to be flexible enough to allow for both parallel and in-line battery compartments. In earlier prototypes, we had issues with contacts' durability, but this new generation uses a different material that is much stronger.

The Rose-gold is even prettier in person! This serves as a non-conductive protective coating over the Batteriser to prevent shorting. Originally, we were considering a clear-coat over the Batteriser, but opted for the Rose-gold to ensure an even coating during production for quality control purposes. We're thrilled with the look.

We have also finalized the protective cases (recyclable material) that your Batterisers will be shipping in. These reusable cases safely store your Batterisers when not in use and allow for easy transport. We wanted to design a case that you could easily throw in your bag or purse and bring on an airplane.

The next step is to receive the final, next generation optimized IC (integrated circuit) from manufacturing and start assembling. The early prototype that we took to PC World wasn't optimized yet for high-drain devices. This new IC does exactly that, which is a huge plus for devices like digital cameras, RC cars, and other high-drain devices. 
Thank you again for your support! We couldn't be more excited to make Batteriser a reality!
Regards,
Bob and the Batteriser Team

So after what, 4 years of development?, only at the 11th hour are they spinning a new chip that is suitable for high drain devices? 
What was all their claims about 1.5A output capability then if they had never really tested it properly?
The odds of this thing being decently efficient over the whole performance envelope in the size available has to be very low.
What are the odds of something going wrong with the new IC?
How can they test and qualify a new IC, presumably make PCB changes as well?, ramp up production, and get these things shipped in a month?

[crispy_tofu]

My guess is that it'll be 'delayed' for half a year. 

[FrankBuss]

They wrote it is optimized for high drain devices, probably the old chip worked already for 1.5 A, but not as efficient. Of course, nearly all devices will run longer without the batteriser, maybe they are desperately trying to maximize the efficiency to minimize customer complaints.

[EEVblog]

They wrote it is optimized for high drain devices, probably the old chip worked already for 1.5 A, but not as efficient. Of course, nearly all devices will run longer without the batteriser, maybe they are desperately trying to maximize the efficiency to minimize customer complaints.

So why not make it efficient at 1.5A in the first place?
Seems like a last minute snafu.
And can you just make it magically better without compromising efficiency at the lower end?
This is the sort of basic stuff you are supposed figure out in the initial prototype stage before you go public with the song and dance routine.

[WN1X]

Dave will need to put his batteriser in his Fail button. Seems appropriate doesn't it?

[5ky]

I think they're very well aware of their bullshit claims, and probably had a chat with the VC board and their legal team to discuss potential fallout, and they probably decided to do some tweaking (IE: higher current model) to lessen the uproar from consumers after they realize their 80% claim was a flat out lie.

[apis]

I'm just speculating now but one theory I have is that their real product is not the batteriser but the IC. If that's the case, the batteriser is only an attempt to create initial demand for the chip in order to get the ball rolling.

[EEVblog]

Dave will need to put his batteriser in his Fail button. Seems appropriate doesn't it?

With a robot actuator to continually push it! 

[bills]

Dave will need to put his batteriser in his Fail button. Seems appropriate doesn't it?

With a robot actuator to continually push it! 

Please don't make a video of that.

[LabSpokane]

Update!

Greetings Batteriser Supporters!
We're getting closer to the final production of the Batteriser sleeves. Here's a sneak peek at our progress, plus some cool photos hot off the press!

The form factor of the sleeve has been finalized...meaning it's optimized to be strong enough for reuse, but thin enough to fit inside most battery compartments.

We've spent several months finalizing the top contact of the Batteriser. The challenge was to engineer the top contact to be flexible enough to allow for both parallel and in-line battery compartments. In earlier prototypes, we had issues with contacts' durability, but this new generation uses a different material that is much stronger.

The Rose-gold is even prettier in person! This serves as a non-conductive protective coating over the Batteriser to prevent shorting. Originally, we were considering a clear-coat over the Batteriser, but opted for the Rose-gold to ensure an even coating during production for quality control purposes. We're thrilled with the look.

We have also finalized the protective cases (recyclable material) that your Batterisers will be shipping in. These reusable cases safely store your Batterisers when not in use and allow for easy transport. We wanted to design a case that you could easily throw in your bag or purse and bring on an airplane.

The next step is to receive the final, next generation optimized IC (integrated circuit) from manufacturing and start assembling. The early prototype that we took to PC World wasn't optimized yet for high-drain devices. This new IC does exactly that, which is a huge plus for devices like digital cameras, RC cars, and other high-drain devices. 
Thank you again for your support! We couldn't be more excited to make Batteriser a reality!
Regards,
Bob and the Batteriser Team

So after what, 4 years of development?, only at the 11th hour are they spinning a new chip that is suitable for high drain devices? 
What was all their claims about 1.5A output capability then if they had never really tested it properly?
The odds of this thing being decently efficient over the whole performance envelope in the size available has to be very low.
What are the odds of something going wrong with the new IC?
How can they test and qualify a new IC, presumably make PCB changes as well?, ramp up production, and get these things shipped in a month?

Whoa!  Back up the truck, Brothers Roohparvar.

This means you have to re-submit for FCC verification, UL, CE, CSA, the whole thing. 

And if your device wasn't optimized for high drain devices, what the heck was going on with the GPS deal? 

[EEVblog]

Whoa!  Back up the truck, Brothers Roohparvar.
This means you have to re-submit for FCC verification, UL, CE, CSA, the whole thing. 

Yup.
Maybe someone should point that out to them on the Indiegogo comments, just in case they aren't aware.

[LabSpokane]

Whoa!  Back up the truck, Brothers Roohparvar.
This means you have to re-submit for FCC verification, UL, CE, CSA, the whole thing. 

Yup.
Maybe someone should point that out to them on the Indiegogo comments, just in case they aren't aware.

I'd bother if not for the fact that two ex-Flextronics engineers and one ex-Micron engineer ought to know the rules by now and can surely afford to do the job properly.   

[Wytnucls]

Physical size is also a problem. There isn't much real estate on top of a AAA battery. Existing ICs and inductors capable of generating 1.5A at 1.5MHz with 80-90% efficiency throughout the range are much larger and wouldn't fit. Switching to ICs running at 3MHz may help some.
Cost and time don't seem to be on their side. 

[Galenbo]

...The next step is to receive the final, next generation optimized IC (integrated circuit) from manufacturing and start assembling. ...This new IC does

What is the minimum and average time you guys expierienced between:

-have a schematic for the IC
and
-having the IC manufactured
and
-having the pcb containing the IC approved CE/ EMC/UL/...