EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[GNU_Ninja]

A discussion has started on the website of the VC company backing Batteriser:
http://sktainnopartners.com/welcome-to-batteroo/

What exactly is a 'serial entrepreneur' ..? "Founded in 2012 by serial entrepreneur and technologist Dr. Farzan “Bob” Roohparvar" ... 

[f4eru]

What exactly is a 'serial entrepreneur' ..?

It's a professional scammer who has already started the next cash cow when one gets discovered. Time is money.

[Godzil]

A discussion has started on the website of the VC company backing Batteriser:
http://sktainnopartners.com/welcome-to-batteroo/

What exactly is a 'serial entrepreneur' ..? "Founded in 2012 by serial entrepreneur and technologist Dr. Farzan “Bob” Roohparvar" ... 

It's the sort of guy that say "I've created dozen of company, and sold them all"

[SL4P]

(UL) certification ----
I see this image pasted into the Batteroo website - and it has a procedure and results displayed, but no claim...  which is FAIR ENOUGH BECAUSE (UL) doesn't certify functionality, it certifies safety and risk standards (which might be questionable if testing fire risk and safety-critical applications using the device !)

I think this must be drawing to a close soon.

[Bud]

What exactly is a 'serial entrepreneur' ..? "Founded in 2012 by serial entrepreneur and technologist Dr. Farzan “Bob” Roohparvar" ... 

It's the sort of guy that say "I've created dozen of company, and sold them all"
[/quote]

It's the sort of guy people refer to as "He created dozen of companies, and bankrupted them all"

[MikeW]

If that UL report is real I will eat a metaphorical hat.

[SL4P]

FWIW - here's the battery discharge graph used in Batteroo's PATENT application
https://www.google.com/patents/US20120121943

[AmmoJammo]

Somehow, butteriser, conned another IGG campaign into advertising for them...

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/aftershokz-trekz-bone-conduction-headphones#/updates

 

[edy]

Somehow, butteriser, conned another IGG campaign into advertising for them...

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/aftershokz-trekz-bone-conduction-headphones#/updates

 

You can't con a con....

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/2015-new-model-waterproof-bone-conduction_60289914933.html?spm=a2700.7724838.35.1.xWJKqX





OK, sorry, they are not exactly the same. Still, I'm not sold on "bone conduction" yet. Will have to try one out. How many backers have ever actually tried it? Off topic alert.... Back to Batteriser.

EDIT:  Apparently this company has been around for a while and sold these, so not quite a con afterall. The Chinese Alibaba site is just another option but impossible to compare to, not knowing the quality. However, I am surprised that a company like AfterShokz that DOES have a real product and client base and by all looks of it is a functioning company that is delivering a reasonably good product would associate themselves with Batteriser.

[Godzil]

It's the sort of guy that say "I've created dozen of company, and sold them all"

It's the sort of guy people refer to as "He created dozen of companies, and bankrupted them all"

Yeap also another clear vision of the facts

[edy]

It's the sort of guy that say "I've created dozen of company, and sold them all"

It's the sort of guy people refer to as "He created dozen of companies, and bankrupted them all"

Yeap also another clear vision of the facts

That also explains why so many patents. Perhaps the patents become something you can sell with the company that increases the value.

EDIT: Just had to comment on IndieGogo. That site has become a "shill" for Chinese manufacturers as well. Just like "astroturfing" is a play on words describing fake "grass-roots" movement, the IndieGogo campaigns which look an awful lot like Alibaba redesigns may be fake campaigns operated by Chinese factories who take advantage of cheap marketing through "crowd-funding" success story psychology to help push their latest wares. I wouldn't be surprised at all if at least some of this was going on.

[borud]

Back to business, has anyone contacted UL?

I did.  I contacted their Market Surveillance Department.  I heard back from them today.   They have assigned an investigator.  Here is their response:

UL Product Incident Report (PIR) 2015FR-1418

Hello Mr. Borud.


Thank you for taking the time to contact the UL Market Surveillance Department to report your advertising concern.


Based on the information you submitted, a Product Incident Report (PIR) investigation has been opened and assigned to **removed** , UL Market Surveillance Report Investigator.

 

If you have additional information or questions, please contact the investigator at **removed** .

 

We would like to assure you that the information you provide will be thoroughly reviewed and appropriate action will be taken as warranted.  We will notify you upon completion of this investigation.

 

Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.

 

Regards,

 

Ms. **removed**

Market Surveillance Analyst

[Muttley Snickers]

They have picked up another 2400 odd backers in a day thats umm umm anyway a fair few without significant increase in takings, I hereby predict a lot if not all getting lost in the mail so any chance of a local pickup just to be on the safe side, after all we are saving the planet aren't we.

Based on their current numbers there are roughly 6100 people hanging out to debunk, some more qualified than others.

[borud]

Batteriser doesn't show an official document, they show a summary. I can't and will not believe that they would even risk to falsify that.

Well, in the spirit of testing claims, since UL has been notified we might find out what's what.  If they have indeed hired UL to perform a test we will hopefully find out what kind of test has been performed and what the outcome was.  If they haven't hired UL to perform a test or have otherwise misrepresented the situation, we might be able to get some information on that as well.

I have no idea what the UL Market Surveillance Department will communicate back to me/us/the public, but at least this is one step towards clarification.

-Bjørn

[Godzil]

It's the sort of guy that say "I've created dozen of company, and sold them all"

It's the sort of guy people refer to as "He created dozen of companies, and bankrupted them all"

Yeap also another clear vision of the facts

That also explains why so many patents. Perhaps the patents become something you can sell with the company that increases the value.

Of course!

[jippie]

If you have additional information or questions, please contact the investigator at <mail@address> or phone <number> (RTP, NC, USA).

Not sure if it is wise to publish exact contact details online with regard to spamming and abuse in other ways.

[MikeW]

Batteriser doesn't show an official document, they show a summary. I can't and will not believe that they would even risk to falsify that.

Well, in the spirit of testing claims, since UL has been notified we might find out what's what.  If they have indeed hired UL to perform a test we will hopefully find out what kind of test has been performed and what the outcome was.  If they haven't hired UL to perform a test or have otherwise misrepresented the situation, we might be able to get some information on that as well.

I have no idea what the UL Market Surveillance Department will communicate back to me/us/the public, but at least this is one step towards clarification.

-Bjørn

If it was a legitimate report then why would there be a need for any sort of investigation?

[Fungus]

In the Garmin scenario, who would end up with a fully non-working GPS first, the one with or the one without batterisers?

A true test of this would consist of two games of golf using the Garmin GPS.

After two games the battery indicator will show 50% remaining with ordinary Alkalines but 100% remaining with Batteriser. Batteriser is clearly the winner!

[Fungus]

What exactly is a 'serial entrepreneur' ..?

Somebody who's started many different companies, none of which were successful enough to not have to close and start over with another company.

[amyk]

EDIT: Just had to comment on IndieGogo. That site has become a "shill" for Chinese manufacturers as well. Just like "astroturfing" is a play on words describing fake "grass-roots" movement, the IndieGogo campaigns which look an awful lot like Alibaba redesigns may be fake campaigns operated by Chinese factories who take advantage of cheap marketing through "crowd-funding" success story psychology to help push their latest wares. I wouldn't be surprised at all if at least some of this was going on.

At least in that case they probably do have real product to sell... on the other hand, this story has been going on for over 3 months but is there anyone outside of the company and their "fan club" (and allegedly, UL) who has an actual Batteriser yet?

[Galenbo]

Update!  Jay_Diddy_B wants to send me his boost converter from this thread: ... and run the test in the exact same manner as my first test... 

Can you also measure OFF-autonomy? Or OFF-consumption? Between the batteries and the converter.

[Fungus]

If it was a legitimate report then why would there be a need for any sort of investigation?

Yep. Why would somebody who actually works at UL need to start an investigation? The UL reference number is clearly displayed on Batteroo's image. Surely they can just look it up in their database and give a yes/no answer.   

[Galenbo]

What exactly is a 'serial entrepreneur' ..?

It's a professional scammer who has already started the next cash cow when one gets discovered. Time is money.

A guy selling the company before the product warranty claims start getting in...

[Godzil]

What about a StepUp that have it's output following the battery voltage?

I mean that, let's says that our step-up is able to output
- 1.5V
- 1.3V
- 1.2V
- 1.1V
- 1.0V
- 0.9V

Allong with a small and power efficient uC (like an Attiny9) that read the (real) battery voltage and switch the step-up to a close output value for the stepup.
Ultimately the lowest available value should be configured with the device cutoff voltage, so that we are sure that the voltage never goes off that limit.

What this will do
- Prevent unusefull consumption on the battery by doing a too high conversion from the battery voltage to the output voltage
- But better, the battery meter on the device will work as before.

What is unknown:
- Does this will have any effect on the "tap into 800000000% of the battery remaining" I'm not sure, that it would help, and anyway if the device also use a step-up this is still absolutely unuseful.
- The total use time may also get worst by using this (but can't be as worse as a batter raiser)

Ho and by the way Batteroo, you are not allowed to take my idea for your next device if you will be able to make another one. This is an Open Source Idea, with the only limitation that any company with a name that start with "Batter" won't have any right of use it, and use of this idea need to follow this license of course.

So joke apart, Batteroo don't try to patent this idea, or you will have to pay me as my idea will precede your patent claim.

[MikeW]

If it was a legitimate report then why would there be a need for any sort of investigation?

Yep. Why would somebody who actually works at UL need to start an investigation? The UL reference number is clearly displayed on Batteroo's image. Surely they can just look it up in their database and give a yes/no answer.   

For me this shows they have definitely crossed the line from people who just don't really understand what they are selling, and don't want to admit they are wrong after so much work, (a flawed but kind of understandable human trait) to actual conscious fraud.