Woah! No-one's talking resistance here (except you, as a diversion). You said "you will see that the conductor heats uniformly on the entire conductor cross section" - that is heat, thermal. I am wondering just how you can measure the internal temperature of a conductor, and you Internet isn't any help there.
So, just how do you see that? If you make a hole and place a probe you're affecting the conductor integrity, and even with a thermal imager you're only going to see the outside.
Or was this just another 'fact' or 'law' you made up on the spot?
I guess you will need to learn about another type of energy storage and that will be thermal storage.
If the electrons travel closer to the outside surface of the wire like in AC then resistive losses will show that so there will be no need to even measure the temperature.
I sure not heard about him at university (Electrical engineering in some east european country).
Why will I be bothered by that ?
And it doesn't bother you at all that there is no circuit you can put in region A in the diagram below that can extract energy from the wires that surround it? Even a DC/DC convertor? Even if you can connect it to a GND? But extracting energy from regions B or C is a piece of cake?
And I guess that it doesn't bother you if an isolated charge is placed in region A and it stays where it is put, but if the same charge is placed in B or C it will accelerate, acquiring energy ultimately suppled from the battery, without being connected to it?
And it doesn't both you if you charge a capacitor between +110V and +100V is has exactly the same stored energy as one charged between 0V and -10V? Even though one has been charged at a higher energy? And the other has been charged at a completely different polarity?
And it doesn't bother you that a transformer can get 95%+ transfer of energy from one wire to the other, even though the wires don't touch, and no charges from the input wire get transferred to the output wire?
And it doesn't bother you that for your version of electrostatics (sum of force between charges), every charge needs to be in consistent communication with every other charge in the universe, to work out how far away they are, and at what direction?
And it doesn't bother you that a transmission line is a series of inductors and capacitors, however on inspection those capacitors and inductors can neither be identified or isolated?
And it doesn't bother you that commercial radio transmitters can get kilowatts of energy to disappear into literally thin air?
You must be a firm believer in the Lumped Element Model. It seems to work, so to you it must reflect the mechanics of reality, rather than an useful abstraction and approximation that allows you to get stuff done.
More diversion. You said we would see, as a pillar of your argument. So we want to see it, to recognise what you said was so. Now, when asked how to do that, you say we don't need to, or that it's an obvious effect of something else.
You made it up, didn't you? You can't prove it or show it and all you can do is circular arguments hoping that's not the one you end with when the music stops.
For consideration:
That was something like 3kW for a minute, at 10kHz or so, on a very rusty 1/4" thick steel plate.
The heating pattern is indicative of skin effect around the outer edge of the workpiece, though the glowing areas are much wider than the current paths due to the long heating duration. Nonetheless it's more than adequate to see the superficial current flow path, preference for long sides, and avoidance of corners.
Tim
More diversion. You said we would see, as a pillar of your argument. So we want to see it, to recognise what you said was so. Now, when asked how to do that, you say we don't need to, or that it's an obvious effect of something else.
You made it up, didn't you? You can't prove it or show it and all you can do is circular arguments hoping that's not the one you end with when the music stops.
I already did
but you may have missed that post
or it went over your head.
Take a multimeter set it on resistance and measure the resistance of a copper pipe and then of a copper bar. Let me know if you will measure the same resistance.
If you measure a lower resistance for the copper bar and it just happens to be proportional with the sectional area of the copper that means electrons are free to travel through the entire section of the wire not just the outside portion for a DC current.
I sure not heard about him at university (Electrical engineering in some east european country).The fact that you haven't heard about something doesn't mean that is wrong or unimportant. It just means that your education was bad. You also didn't know about preservation of charge which is a fundamental concept. I suggest that you work through a good book on Electromagnetics. You are clearly out of your depth.
Yes if you place a charged particle in an electric field it will be accelerated but note the action you take to put a charged particle there.
The potential difference for the capacitor is 10V in both cases and as far as energy is concerned it makes absolutely no difference. The zero/ground is something arbitrary that we chose.
A single inductor is an energy storage device same as the capacitor is an energy storage device and so with transformer you can store energy by creating a magnetic field while supplying the primary and then retrieve that stored energy with the secondary or the other way around or with the same.
Of course a transmission line is a series of inductors, capacitors and resistors and of course you can see them if you can see the wires of the transmission line and understand what a capacitor, inductor and resistor are.
The energy of a radio transmitter will not disappear. As a simplification is a capacitor with one plate as the transmitter the ground as one of the conductors and the other plate is the receiver again with ground as the common conductor.
If you think you have a better model that allows to make accurate predictions about what happens on a transmission line then please share as I will be curious to hear. I will like to see the equations not just some story.
QuoteIf you think you have a better model that allows to make accurate predictions about what happens on a transmission line then please share as I will be curious to hear. I will like to see the equations not just some story.
Sure. Wikipedia does a better job of documenting them than I ever could.
And you can get very close to that also by using a DC-DC converter to transfer energy from one capacitor to the other.
That's the goal, to play people like a fiddle and goad them in to making more and more responses.
The best solution is to simply ignore the posts and decline to respond. Electrodacus will eventually get bored and go away.
And you can get very close to that also by using a DC-DC converter to transfer energy from one capacitor to the other.
You keep saying this, and demanding "proof" from others, but you have yet to demonstrate this, even though you assert it over and over. Please demonstrate that this is at all possible.
I think you will find that because the capacitor is a low impedance load (it will store all the energy you can give it) the transfer from the DC-DC convertor will be limited by the convertor's input and output impedance. When the voltages in the capacitors are equal you will end up with less than 0.5 Vinitial in both.
But you really shouldn't try. Electrodacus has a habit of saying things that are clearly wrong, muddled or confusing, and then inviting people to argue about them. It's no surprise that threads like this one tend to go on and one without end. That's the goal, to play people like a fiddle and goad them in to making more and more responses. The best solution is to simply ignore the posts and decline to respond. Electrodacus will eventually get bored and go away.
"Don't feed the trolls"
And you can get very close to that also by using a DC-DC converter to transfer energy from one capacitor to the other.
You keep saying this, and demanding "proof" from others, but you have yet to demonstrate this, even though you assert it over and over. Please demonstrate that this is at all possible.
I think you will find that because the capacitor is a low impedance load (it will store all the energy you can give it) the transfer from the DC-DC convertor will be limited by the convertor's input and output impedance. When the voltages in the capacitors are equal you will end up with less than 0.5 Vinitial in both.
I will not even bother to answer your comments as it will be a never ending story. You clearly lack basic understanding.
What is your prediction if you are using say a 80% efficient DC-DC converter with constant current limiting with current limited so that wires and capacitor internal resistance is basically insignificant in therms of extra losses or say the 80% efficiency includes those losses to make the calculation simpler.
What will be the end voltage if you transfer from a charge 1F capacitor 3V to a identical 1F capacitor that is fully discharged so 0V
Unless you can offer a prediction you can not claim you understand how any of this works.
What part of "When the voltages in the capacitors are equal you will end up with less than 0.5 Vinitial in both." is not "offering a prediction"?
The question I asked involves a DC-DC converter with constant current control between the two capacitors and total efficiency of 80%.
Say you start at 3V for the charged capacitor and you stop the discharge when the charged capacitor voltage drops to 2.121V so half the initial energy.
What will be the voltage on the other capacitor the one that started empty at 0V.
I must have missed it. Please explain what experiment was done,Very funny. The only thing I did in this thread was to indicate all the experimental data that support the energy flowing in space.
Quotewhat was predicted by the S=JV folks, and what was found. (And why Poynting-Heaviside-etc. do not talk about it.)What they accomplished no one knows. What they didn't, we know. They didn't manage to come up with an alternative that doesn't break causality, locality, gauge invariance or a combination of these.
That's why, despite objections regarding its counterintuitive nature, Poynting is the most probable explanation for the flow of energy.
QuoteI also wonder how exactly all physicists proposing alternatives to the Poynting theorem never saw Derek's antennae coming in the whole 20th century. They must feel very silly now (no).They didn't. But their peers did and criticized their proposals. That's why Poynting still stands.
What you are saying is "If I had a Unicorn, then I could open a Unicorn Zoo - prove me wrong!".
No, you prove me wrong. Show me your unicorn!
Why will I be bothered by that ?
And it doesn't bother you at all that there is no circuit you can put in region A in the diagram below that can extract energy from the wires that surround it? Even a DC/DC convertor? Even if you can connect it to a GND? But extracting energy from regions B or C is a piece of cake?
And it doesn't bother you that for your version of electrostatics (sum of force between charges), every charge needs to be in consistent communication with every other charge in the universe, to work out how far away they are, and at what direction?
And it doesn't bother you that a transmission line is a series of inductors and capacitors, however on inspection those capacitors and inductors can neither be identified or isolated?
Why will I be bothered by that ?
And it doesn't bother you at all that there is no circuit you can put in region A in the diagram below that can extract energy from the wires that surround it? Even a DC/DC convertor? Even if you can connect it to a GND? But extracting energy from regions B or C is a piece of cake?And it doesn't bother you at all that energy is supposedly flowing through the region A yet there is no circuit you can put in region A in the diagram that can extract energy from it?
(Hopefully the answer is no)
And it doesn't bother you that for your version of electrostatics (sum of force between charges), every charge needs to be in consistent communication with every other charge in the universe, to work out how far away they are, and at what direction?Are you bothered???
Do you think that if every electron could communicate with far away electrons, humans could make machines hacking this property to communicate messages?
And it doesn't bother you that a transmission line is a series of inductors and capacitors, however on inspection those capacitors and inductors can neither be identified or isolated?A wire is an inductor. With 2 you have an inductor and half a capacitor. And it works even for infinitesimal wires.
What you are saying is "If I had a Unicorn, then I could open a Unicorn Zoo - prove me wrong!".
No, you prove me wrong. Show me your unicorn!
You will think that it is a unicorn because you do not understand the subject. It is in fact just a simple horse
But here is the proof
(Attachment Link)
You are a hard person to goad something out of, but eventually it works.
Really, where then?
You gave no example of an alternative breaking any of this . Coincidence?
Sure so in the 20th century and 21st physicists never heard of antennae.