EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[SundayProgrammer]

this discussion between Eevblog people and Batteriser fan boys is way below that. Unfortunately.

Axel.

So you'd reckon both sides are equally to blame for that?

This is not the first time that you're leaving me with the impression that you're implying some fault on Dave's (and his supporters') side. At least be clear about it.

I think he's allowed to have that opinion over here (if he has it ). Nothing wrong with that.

For me the video "eevBLAB #13 - Buying Youtube DISLIKES! - The Batteriser" was Dave crossing the line I wish he would not cross. It means that Dave keeps the debate as personal level as the Batteriser crew does. Perhaps I'm alone with an opinion that Batteriser reference in that video wasn't necessary. It is keeping on throwing gasoline on the flames. I just don't like where this conversation has been going to. I don't see absolutely no reason why any smart guy have any need to have discussion on that level.

Professional level of analyzing "Batteriser" or "Solar highway" or... what ever... yes please. Fundamental Fridays... yes please. Fundamental turned into practice... yes please.
If someone wants to bark about it... let them bark.

Axel.

[AmmoJammo]

For me the video "eevBLAB #13 - Buying Youtube DISLIKES! - The Batteriser" was Dave crossing the line I wish he would not cross. It means that Dave keeps the debate as personal level as the Batteriser crew does.

Axel.

I don't think its crossing any line... the line was already well and truely crossed when someone affiliated with butteriser started buying dislikes.

If you're already both playing in the mud, throwing mud at each other, by all means, keep it up!

[Mayo2017]

It's not crossing any line when you've got someone trying to harm a legal business through fraudulent means.

Also that's not Matthew Lesko's first Batteriser video. His previous one has some... fantastic ongoing conversations.

Oh, and apparently UL's "independent performance testing" will be published by the end of the week. Fun times ahead. 
And dislikes on my video? I don't even have any videos.

[edy]

Does anyone still believe the Batteriser products can be shipped by November? That leaves 3 months now, assuming it is the last day of November. We have essentially 90 days.

We don't know if the Batteriser has been fabricated yet or if the final design has been chosen and they are already getting in gear for full-scale production.

In that time, if they have finished deciding on the final design, they will need to fabricate die and tooling for the factory to stamp out and bend the Batteriser frameworks. They will need a paint-finishing line to coat them so they don't short. They will need to have PCB's fabricated and components all ordered, with some kind of pick & place or other fabrication process to assemble them (or if they do chip-on-board). They will need a machine to automatically join the metal Batteriser clip to the PCB board.

This fabrication process will have to be repeated for at least 4 different battery sizes (AA, AAA, C, D). 

Finally once they set up for mass-fabrication, they will need to run the machines 24 hours a day for some time to fulfill all of the orders required, and then will need to set up a packaging line and print out packaging and then set up the order supply-chain through Amazon, warehousing and ship all of the initial Batterisers to crowd-funding backers.

Honestly, I vote on leaving Batteriser Batteroo alone for 3 months... All of this arguing about whether it works or not is going to be a distraction for them. They really need to grind in their heals just to get production in gear to meet the deadline before peak Christmas toy-shopping season (include a set of Batterisers with every toy). We don't want to keep them from making this device, do we? I'd rather set a reminder in 3 months and then start back up into this... And once we have actual Batterisers available, I am sure this can be settled once and for all. 

[Halcyon]

So let me get this right... "Batteroo Fan Page" is just a "poor college student" and has several times denied being involved with Batteroo Inc. etc... yet he's sending e-mails on behalf of Batteroo offering media test kits? Again... more lies.

[Mayo2017]

Oh no, he's operating even after Batteriser asked him to shut down, don't you know. But I'm wrong about everything and he'll admit he's wrong if I buy a Batteriser for only $2.50 on Amazon this November and give it a disappointing review! Whatever shall I do to maintain my wonderful image on YouTube?

And the change of the channel name is absolutely hilarious. Especially since the internet doesn't just forget things.

Watching this guy scream at me dozens of times over is the most entertaining thing I've seen in a while. 

[tree]

It'd be pretty smart of Batteriser to have a "fan page" that is secretly run by them so that if anything goes south, what was said wouldn't be their responsibility.

[LabSpokane]

Does anyone still believe the Batteriser products can be shipped by November? That leaves 3 months now, assuming it is the last day of November. We have essentially 90 days.

No.  There are only about 30 days or less available for manufacturing.  The IGG campaign ends on or about Sept 24.  I don't know how it takes for IGG to clear funds,  but there are always delays with invalid credit cards not clearing, refunds, etc.  Then, it takes 30 days to typically ship a container from China and get it through customs.  (Companies like Apple can air-ship, but that's because the phones are worth $800 each. If Batteroo air-ships, they're toast.  Their product is 80% air and of low-value.)

[5ky]

Got the GPS unit.  It shuts off at 1.1v per cell.  It'll run just fine at 1.105v per cell but as soon as it hits 1.1v per cell it turns itself off.

I'm about to pop in some brand new AA's and use a servo to keep the screen on at the same interval that they did in their video, and see how long it'll go.

Has batteriser stated what voltage their batteriser will work down to?  If it's 1.1v, this is already busted right open before I even start.  I'd hope it can do at least 0.7v.

[Muttley Snickers]

I think that I found their schematic......


http://www.engineering.com/DesignerEdge/DesignerEdgeArticles/ArticleID/10236/Meet-the-Simple-Device-That-Could-Revolutionize-the-Battery-Industry.aspx

And some are questioning it's integrity.....


http://architechnologist.com/three-battery-innovations-that-could-change-everything/#.VeeVLSWqqkp

[amyk]

Got the GPS unit.  It shuts off at 1.1v per cell.  It'll run just fine at 1.105v per cell but as soon as it hits 1.1v per cell it turns itself off.

I'm about to pop in some brand new AA's and use a servo to keep the screen on at the same interval that they did in their video, and see how long it'll go.

Has batteriser stated what voltage their batteriser will work down to?  If it's 1.1v, this is already busted right open before I even start.  I'd hope it can do at least 0.7v.

What battery setting? Does it display that warning message about using NiMH/Lithium rechargeables?

[lpickup]

Got the GPS unit.  It shuts off at 1.1v per cell.  It'll run just fine at 1.105v per cell but as soon as it hits 1.1v per cell it turns itself off.

I'm about to pop in some brand new AA's and use a servo to keep the screen on at the same interval that they did in their video, and see how long it'll go.

Has batteriser stated what voltage their batteriser will work down to?  If it's 1.1v, this is already busted right open before I even start.  I'd hope it can do at least 0.7v.

I have seen them claim 0.5V.

If you do build the servo thing, position the finger so that it clicks to "OK" button on the rechargable battery warning screen (but not the DONE button on the preview screen if that's possible).  Also make sure you are indoors and not receiving a good GPS signal in order to replicate their questionable test methods.

[5ky]

Got the GPS unit.  It shuts off at 1.1v per cell.  It'll run just fine at 1.105v per cell but as soon as it hits 1.1v per cell it turns itself off.

I'm about to pop in some brand new AA's and use a servo to keep the screen on at the same interval that they did in their video, and see how long it'll go.

Has batteriser stated what voltage their batteriser will work down to?  If it's 1.1v, this is already busted right open before I even start.  I'd hope it can do at least 0.7v.

What battery setting? Does it display that warning message about using NiMH/Lithium rechargeables?

alkaline:
2.61v brightness dims (with warning on screen)
2.31v low battery warning
2.11v powers off

lithium:
2.82v low battery warning
2.16v powers off (screen still max brightness)

nimh:
2.59v low battery warning
2.16v powers off (screen still max brightness)

[5ky]

Got the GPS unit.  It shuts off at 1.1v per cell.  It'll run just fine at 1.105v per cell but as soon as it hits 1.1v per cell it turns itself off.

I'm about to pop in some brand new AA's and use a servo to keep the screen on at the same interval that they did in their video, and see how long it'll go.

Has batteriser stated what voltage their batteriser will work down to?  If it's 1.1v, this is already busted right open before I even start.  I'd hope it can do at least 0.7v.

I have seen them claim 0.5V.

If you do build the servo thing, position the finger so that it clicks to "OK" button on the rechargable battery warning screen (but not the DONE button on the preview screen if that's possible).  Also make sure you are indoors and not receiving a good GPS signal in order to replicate their questionable test methods.

I thought about that but was hoping that doing so won't make the gps have to load more info since it would be moving the cursor position if it isn't dead center, potentially draining faster than leaving the cursor in the same spot like their test did.  (if all else fails, I can do both methods--I have lots of AA's on hand)

[edy]

Now that there is a circuit to look at, I have some questions. First, it looks like their diode may be an LED as the photos show a yellow SMD on the top of the PCB. Either way, isn't there a voltage drop (forward voltage) expected across a diode? Wouldn't the Batteriser need to output even greater voltage to overcome the diode?

Second, the PWM signal has to be powered by the battery as well. It appears to short the battery through the inductor, then when it is off the inductor current and voltage add to the battery. Is the PWM changing duty cycle based on the sensed voltage? It would barely need to be on initially when the battery is full, but again the diode voltage drop would need to be overcome.

Also during time PWM is on and shorting the battery (loading up the inductor), the load wouldn't get any voltage/current? Wouldn't it just average out?

Dave, I think we need a good Fundamentals Friday on that schematic and how it works, and other boost circuits.

[EEVblog]

Heads up for those following only this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/eevblab/eevblab-13-batteriser-how-to-buy-youtube-dislikes!/msg745884/#msg745884
Info in the PR firm Batteriser are using, saying the "Representation of customers is FAKE"

[edy]

Here is some more info on JPR communications:

http://m.marketwired.com/press-release/jpr-communications-hits-4-billion-total-client-acquisitions-following-successful-pr-1753711.htm

a proactive and strategic public relations firm specializing in launching startups and establishing data storage/cloud computing brands worldwide

No doubt they must know each other from the days when Frankie Roohparvar was head of Skyera and Micron Technologies, both enterprise flash storage tech startups.

Yup, here are past clients:

http://www.jprcom.com/clients.html

[linux-works]

Please someone download that video before it disappears. It is a real comedy.  Never mind the Batteriser, it is just the way Mr. Lesko does his intro and the interview, it was very entertaining!

% cd /tmp
% youtube-dl 'https://www.youtube.com/embed/Yx5VE7xDRq4'
[youtube] Setting language
[youtube] Yx5VE7xDRq4: Downloading webpage
[youtube] Yx5VE7xDRq4: Downloading video info webpage
[youtube] Yx5VE7xDRq4: Extracting video information
[download] Destination: How Stop Getting Ripped Off By The Battery Companies Gets $289.000 On Internet-Yx5VE7xDRq4.mp4

done.  its in my /tmp folder.  come get it anytime you want.

[GoneTomorrow]

It's impressive how quickly this became the second-most-replied-to thread on this forum, and pretty sure it will soon be the most discussed. (in fact, if you add together all the threads related to Batteriser, it's by far the most discussed)
 
I kind of hope a product actually eventuates from this that we can do proper scientific analysis on, but the behaviour of Batteriser definitely isn't that of a company which actually has anything to deliver.

[EEVblog]

For me the video "eevBLAB #13 - Buying Youtube DISLIKES! - The Batteriser" was Dave crossing the line I wish he would not cross. It means that Dave keeps the debate as personal level as the Batteriser crew does.

I have nothing against Betteriser/Batteroo personally. That video was in response to a forum post about the fake dislikes. That alone was interesting I thought to warrant a video.
And yes, I also decided to take on a response to the clown running the "fan page" who made some very serious accusations against me.
This is not about Batteriser the company.

[EEVblog]

It's impressive how quickly this became the second-most-replied-to thread on this forum

Nope, it's not even in the top 10.

[Mayo2017]

It got a little weird on a Matthew Lesko video.

I'm also in the camp of "this is barely even about the Batteriser company anymore" since genius decided to make it personal.

[SundayProgrammer]

For me the video "eevBLAB #13 - Buying Youtube DISLIKES! - The Batteriser" was Dave crossing the line I wish he would not cross. It means that Dave keeps the debate as personal level as the Batteriser crew does.

And yes, I also decided to take on a response to the clown running the "fan page" who made some very serious accusations against me.
This is not about Batteriser the company.

Yep, I was afraid that you'd reply that "but....they started it...".
Well... Batteriser (fan boys or what ever bunch of people they are) related ranting was entertaining for a while but it has now getting shapes which seem to be uglier and uglier every day. Enough of Batteriser related ranting.
Just ignore Batteriser fan boys barking - they are not worth it.

Axel.

[LabSpokane]

What was done to Arlen Moulten is despicable and merits a profuse apology direct from Batteroo corporate.

i.e. A letter from the Board of Directors.

[EEVblog]

Well there you go, they backed down and apologised
After Batteroo kicked their arse of course.
What's this rubbish about Batteroo not being able to set up a Youtube channel though? They have a ton of money, make all these professional videos, have a Vimeo channel, social media to the wazoo, but have no idea about how to set up a Youtube channel? Sorry, I'm not buying it.