EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[adprom]

Sounds more like chicken shit. Cannot discuss anything without your blog goons?

Want to elaborate on that? The immature response in each of your posts seems oddly familiar to the batteriser 'fans'

[5ky]

I believe the test fail is either when it shut off or shows the error message about the back light. When did the back light error come up?

There is no error message.  It's the interface letting you know that it's dimming the backlight to help extend battery life.  That's a feature.  You can easily disable it by setting battery type to lithium or nimh (even when you're actually using alkalines).  And what's funny is that the backlight message didn't even show up until about the 7 hour mark.  I'm still wondering how "used" those AA's were that batteroo used to get their GPS to get to that message after only 2 hours?

Oh, and now that I've tested using boost converters similar to what the batterisers will be using, I'm retesting (almost done) using duracells without boost converters WITH battery type set to lithium to bypass the screen dimming, and it's at 9 hr 30 min and still has ~150 mV to go before cutoff.  The test using a boost converter per cell only went 10 hours, so it's already safe to say that the Garmin Approach G3 GPS unit actually gets slightly shorter battery life using batteriser.

[Bud]

they still have a chance to sell millions of these in other countries?

They do not need to. Mark my words: most of sales will be right in the US.

[Fungus]

they still have a chance to sell millions of these in other countries?

They do not need to. Mark my words: most of sales will be right in the US.

Yep. Just get it next to the checkouts at Walmart and watch what happens...

[samgab]

Hey Davey_Jonez
For the record, who are you?
Are you in any way associated with Batteriser, Batteroo, or the "Fan Page", or do you know them?

I see this username has ignored your question here.

[ez24]

5ky when you finish your exotic testing and if you have a LED flashlight that uses 2 AA batteries could you take 4 new alkaline batteries and run 2 until shutoff without your circuit and 2 with your circuit.

This is a major use I have for AA batteries. 

thanks

[Fungus]

5ky when you finish your exotic testing and if you have a LED flashlight that uses 2 AA batteries could you take 4 new alkaline batteries and run 2 until shutoff without your circuit and 2 with your circuit.

This is a major use I have for AA batteries. 

Most LED flashlights will already have boost converters in them. Plus they'll be optimized for the particular LED.

[Chipguy]

Hey Davey_Jonez
For the record, who are you?
Are you in any way associated with Batteriser, Batteroo, or the "Fan Page", or do you know them?

I see this username has ignored your question here.

It's pretty obvious that this user is associated with them in some way.
However no one will take this user seriously since the choice of name and the wording of comments could not be worse.
That user has either to reveal his/her real name if it's one of the Batteriser team or his/her association by changing the username to Batteroo or whatever.
All I see shows the signs of a underage kid, trying to cause some trouble and hiding behind stupid nicknames.
Most likely it's one of the kids from the people involved in that company, trying to "help" out with public receiption.
Doesn't really work, does it 

[firewalker]

I believe he is one of the Roohparvars.

Alexander.

[Chipguy]

I believe he is one of the Roohparvars.

Alexander.

Same here

[ez24]

Most LED flashlights will already have boost converters in them. Plus they'll be optimized for the particular LED.

yes but still the flashlight dies.  If the device would fit and make the flashlight last longer then I would say it does its job.  At least 5ky could say if the flashlight would stay on longer (from full new battery turn on to OFF)

thanks

[5ky]

Most LED flashlights will already have boost converters in them. Plus they'll be optimized for the particular LED.

yes but still the flashlight dies.  If the device would fit and make the flashlight last longer then I would say it does its job.  At least 5ky could say if the flashlight would stay on longer (from full new battery turn on to OFF)

thanks

I'll pick one up tomorrow and will do some testing.

[TheAmmoniacal]

Even the cheapest flashlight LED driver I found when googling claims to work down to 0.9V on a cell: https://www.fasttech.com/products/1612/10001715/1134800

[HighVoltage]

Even the cheapest flashlight LED driver I found when googling claims to work down to 0.9V on a cell: https://www.fasttech.com/products/1612/10001715/1134800

I just tested a brand new LED-Lenser (German manufacturer) flashlight and it still works at 0.46 V It is pretty dim at that time but it still works. I don't think that the batterizer would be able to improve this flashlight.

[samgab]

Yeah me too. And a runtime test isn't the only way to test. Another way is to take the cells out after your item won't run any longer, and test discharge the cells to see how much energy is still remaining in them.
I have a 4xAA LED flashlight I've been testing, a Sunwayman D40A (excellent flashlight by the way), and after it no longer runs, I've tested the cells in a discharge test. It leaves no capacity in the cells. About 7mAh from all 4 combined in one test cycle, and zero measurable remaining capacity from another cycle.
Also, I recommend getting eneloop Low Self Discharge NiMH cells instead of using Alkalines. 

[EEVblog]

Hopefully not, but I'm sure they'll sell a ton anyway. 

Yep, I'm sure they'll sell a ton too.
Even if when they deliver and everyone tests it and it (almost certainly) shows it's true lack of claimed performance, it'll mean squat, they still sell squillions of them.
Every tech blog on the planet could say it's useless, and that message would still only reach 1% of the potential market.

[EEVblog]

It's worth talking about what it really takes capital-wise to start one of these ventures.  There's a bunch of business practices in the crowdfunding market that need to be addressed.  Undercapitalization is a major issue - as is an over-ambitious goal.  The Batteriser really is a series of teachable moments from many different aspects of designing, building, and selling a consumer-oriented electronics product:  thermodynamics, battery chemistry, low-battery cutoff techniques, boost-converter design, "napkin estimation," component price negotiation, custom manufacturing, tooling, marketing, seeking capital, retail distribution, and probably a lot more that I've missed. 

Batteroo really nailed the marketing and distribution channels out of the chute.  You have to admire them for that.  The industrial design is fairly slick as well, it just is going to have manufacturability issues. 

It's rare to get to watch something like this run its course from start to finish.  So, as long as the discussion is mature and objective, these things are worth talking about.

Agreed. This has been and will continue to be a fascinating project to watch, whether it succeeds or fails.
Unfortunately if it does fail I suspect we won't hear a peep out of them, unlike what is quite common these days, with failed projects writing an extensive blog post about how and why it failed.

[AmmoJammo]

I have one of these:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Wholesale-CREE-Q5-1200-Lumen-14500-ZOOMABLE-LED-Flashlight-Torch-Black-Mini-/381332636816?hash=item58c9324490

I'm pretty sure its the same, mine didn't some with the laser warning sticker. 

However, its still very usable down to 0.6volts, and keeps outputting light down to 0.3volts!

So, the batteriser will reduce the run time, and rather than have the torch slowly drop in brightness, so you can potentially get to a safe place, or out of the darkness, it will simply suddenly, and without warning, FAIL! 

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Hi,

From a commercial point of view I don't believe that Bob's goal is to sell a ton of Batterisers with a fairly slim margins.

I believe that Bob's real product is the company. He is a serial entrepreneur, he will have an exit strategy, somebody else will be left with the pieces.

They don't care if the product really works.

Jay_Diddy_B

[ErikTheNorwegian]

I believe he is one of the Roohparvars.

Alexander.

Same here

I bet Dave has a IP adress in the log from the " Davey_Jonez " that we could look at and try to find other traces from in logs on the net.. it may reveal the Id in other forum and pages.

[coppice]

5ky when you finish your exotic testing and if you have a LED flashlight that uses 2 AA batteries could you take 4 new alkaline batteries and run 2 until shutoff without your circuit and 2 with your circuit.

This is a major use I have for AA batteries. 

Most LED flashlights will already have boost converters in them. Plus they'll be optimized for the particular LED.

Most LED flashlights have lithium ion batteries in them. Trying to optimise battery performance with alkaline cells is a niche market. :-)

[LabSpokane]

I believe that Bob's real product is the company. He is a serial entrepreneur, he will have an exit strategy, somebody else will be left with the pieces.

Undoubtedly, that is the goal.

[Fungus]

Most LED flashlights will already have boost converters in them. Plus they'll be optimized for the particular LED.

yes but still the flashlight dies.  If the device would fit and make the flashlight last longer then I would say it does its job.

How can another boost converter in serial make a flashlight last longer? It will most likely waste 10-20% of the battery.

(And all 147 pages of this thread have been saying this...it's an unavoidable side effect of boost converters like Batteriser)

[Psycho]

I hope they send some Batterisers out...
Maybe I am a kind of masochist but i want to see this guy testing the Batteriser.

[MrRobSteel]

I hope they send some Batterisers out...
Maybe I am a kind of masochist but i want to see this guy testing the Batteriser.

A whole video about how specs are misleading and often exaggerate... well between random ramblings. Pretty sure this is what we've been saying. *facepalm*