This is why we should all leave the EU

[dannyf]

That american dream is only for a few % of the people

100% of those who work hard.

Here in Holland it is not perfect either we pay a lot of taxes and own risks for medicare but you can see it as together we stand as one, we all pay for eachother and be happy

That great. All people are asking is that we have the option to subject ourselves to such a system. Not that such a system being imposed onto us regardless of our free wills.

Does sound fairly basic, doesn't it?

[Galenbo]

I do not need unelected bureaucrats, lawyers and bankers to breanwash me an off-the-shelf solution about energy. I went to school to get that information from scientists.

This directive was passed by our elected representatives in the EU, and then passed into law by our elected national parliaments.

By your elected EU representatives, not by mine.

You went to school for information... Provided by the government you hate so much,

Indeed, there are still parts that they didn't completely destroy, contrary to their motivation to do so.
The number of sheeple like you is rising.

[Kjelt]

100% of those who work hard.

Sure a lot of them have worked hard for it and had the luck that is worked out.
But for instance somebody working in a fast food restaurant, waitresses, cleaners etc. etc. they also work hard, hell some of them in the US need two jobs to get around to pay the rent. Bit strange to have to work 16 hours for two jobs to make ends meet.

That great. All people are asking is that we have the option to subject ourselves to such a system. Not that such a system being imposed onto us regardless of our free wills. Does sound fairly basic, doesn't it?

You would think so unless you do the math. If half of the people do not co-operate the other half has to pay soo much that the system would not work. It only works if everybody pays a fair amount. Most people that do not want to do this (in the case of a mandatory medicare for instance) are the people:
-1 that have a lot of money so they do not need an insurance
-2 that never been ill and don't want to pay something for nothing.

The first group of people also do not have any pain in paying the low insurance fee themselves, hell they do not even notice it, so unless you want to become a Scrooge what does it matter?
The second group of people should realize that things might change to the worst some day and that it does not even have to be your own fault (car accident by someone else for instance), those people should realize that at that point without this care they are probably ending up selling everything they own to pay for the medical bills or have a very uncomfortable health the rest of their lives.

But hey, I do not need to convince anyone, you go ahead and do things as you like to do in your own country but living in a certain country with a certain government you go by the laws and rules or you choose to go to another country. As long as the system does not go out of hand (doctors operating for income instead of patient welfare) and the costs are being guarded (a real issue I admit).

[Galenbo]

a 2200W vacuum, ...a new 1600W model.

The power difference is 600W, one hour per week, so each household will save 31.3 kWh per annum.

Error 1:
No it is not. the maximum power has a difference of 600W. The used power is function of choosen setting and created airgap when using the cleaner, the kind of surface, the amount of dust and so on. Take your current meter out and calculate the used power with your measured results.

Error 2:
The total time the cleaner will be used is function of the maximum power, efficiency and so on. You are multiplicationg bananas with eggs here

Error 3:
A 2200W cleaner can have a better efficiency than a 1600W unit, so using less current. The inverse is also true: a 1600W unit can clean better than a 2200W unit.
 

[Galenbo]

I think that the most effective policy would be as a slimmed down bureaucracy. 

In our country bureacrats+foodstampers+leftwing sponsored artists ruled the last 20 years in politics.
Their efforts were mainly to get more money to their intrests, making a bigger bureaucracy.

[Galenbo]

RoHS not causing problems? Nope! There are still many BGA failures due to cracked solder joints, brittle solder and lots of heat = failures in the field.

Oh, well, we can't put people's health before a company's right to use sub-standard soldering.

You refuse to look at the negative side effects of RoHS. You are happy because some government spewed out a new law, something new for you to admire blindly.

Your use of "people's health" and "sub-standard" is very naive, even emotionalistic.

[Kjelt]

In our country bureacrats+foodstampers+leftwing sponsored artists ruled the last 20 years in politics.

Your country is totally devided into two parts refusing to work, talk let alone rule together.
I think you should be glad you have a government at all 

[lewis]

RoHS not causing problems? Nope! There are still many BGA failures due to cracked solder joints, brittle solder and lots of heat = failures in the field.

Oh, well, we can't put people's health before a company's right to use sub-standard soldering.

To quote page 73 of this document from NASA, "There has never been any health risk from Pb in electronics".

http://nepp.nasa.gov/whisker/reference/tech_papers/2011-kostic-Pb-free.pdf

That's an excellent document by the way, well worth a read.

[jancumps]

Hehe. It's always odd to hear others talk about your country

[jancumps]

...
To quote page 73 of this document from NASA, "There has never been any health risk from Pb in electronics".
...

Wasn't the Pb discussion about what went into the landfills afterwards more than about the immediate health risk of working with leaded solder? Wasn't it part of reducing the amount of Pb we throw away?

[Kjelt]

Yes I thought also, the same with Cadmium. More batteries were ending up in mother nature then in the recycling industry.
Even beer manufacturers used Cadmium in their plastick crates 

[Kjelt]

Not that lead poisoning is something new:

If ingested, lead is poisonous to animals, including humans. It damages the nervous system and causes brain disorders. Excessive lead also causes blood disorders in mammals. Like the element mercury, another heavy metal, lead is a neurotoxin that accumulates both in soft tissues and the bones. Lead poisoning has been documented from ancient Rome, ancient Greece, and ancient China.

[DoDaMaffs]

Greeting's All,
I have just read the entire post to date and although I am not in the EU
I felt obliged to share this hypothetical scenario with you all.

Customer:  Oh sir I need to buy a vacuum cleaner, what do you recommend ?.
Salesman:  Yes madam, can I interest you in our 2 for 1 deal ?.
Customer:  Oh but I only need 1 vacuum cleaner.
Salesman:  No madam, you will need both, along with our complimentary
                   " Authority Sucks " package, It's very popular you know.
Customer:  And what is included in the package if you dont mind me asking ?.
Salesman:  You will receive this large piece of velcro and this Y joiner to combine
                   both vacuum hoses in a paralell configuration so that you can obtain
                   the required suction, It's perfectly legal by the way.
Customer:  Ok then, you are the expert I will take the " Authority Sucks 241 Deal "

Good reading my friends....Pete 

[Corporate666]

I'm a very ecological minded person, but i also look at the bigger picture.

What's in the bigger picture that takes precedence over your environment?

Many, many things.

Convenience, time, health, money and much more.  We almost all drive cars which damage the environment, but we are willing to make that tradeoff in the name of convenience and time.  We use cleaning products, we buy things which must be transported by truck or airplane, we stay awake and use lights rather than go to bed earlier and wake at dawn and much more.

There are countless things we do which place the importance of the environment below our selfish desires.  That's life. 

I think the problem is politicians with too much time on their hands and too small brains to understand real world issues... so they sit around finding things to do rather than doing something useful.

[G7PSK]

If the EU was really concerned about its citizens health and the environment it would remove the subsidy on growing sugar and limit imports of fructose syrups.
That would do far more for health than any amount of filtering on vacuum cleaners.

[owiecc]

If the EU was really concerned about its citizens health and the environment it would remove the subsidy on growing sugar and limit imports of fructose syrups.

Denmark has fat and sugar tax. Sugar tax will cease soon. The problem for sugar tax is that a lot of people buy stuff in Germany (because of EU ) and Danish treasury looses the tax people leave there. Therefore I think they will push soon towards a unified tax on shitty food for the whole EU.

That would do far more for health than any amount of filtering on vacuum cleaners.

BTW. Why can't they do both? Maybe people doing the vacuum tax had easier job in making this bill and this is why is is already done.

[miguelvp]

If the EU was really concerned about its citizens health and the environment it would remove the subsidy on growing sugar and limit imports of fructose syrups.
That would do far more for health than any amount of filtering on vacuum cleaners.

True, seems to me they just want to regulate appliances so that they can meet demand of energy by the population to avoid heavy investment in infrastructure and high energy prices on countries that don't produce much energy.

I will buy that more than health issues

[nctnico]

For your information, the car is the #1 milking cow for taxes here. We pay ridiculous prices compared to almost anyone else. So, the gov't set up a study group led by Jorma Ollila, the ex-chairman of Nokia to investigate usage of GPS technology in monitoring car mileage and levying yet another tax on that. So everyone would be required to install a GPS logger at their own expense and have it regularly report the car movements to some central authority. Now this does qualify as oppressive socialism in my book, and did so for nearly every "ordinary" citizen as well. It really is not anyone's business where i drive my car and when. Those involved tried to assure that the info would only be used to collect mileage info but it is obvious what will happen. There is no promise the gov't can make that would be credible in assuring the privacy of people's movements. That would really be the starting point of a slippery slope towards total control. So if the law is passed my receiver will be permanently temporarily out of order. And so will most others' i gather. So hopefully that brainfart is quietly buried in the archives and never heard of again.

Over here in the NL we heard the same brain fart coming and going. Fortunately GPS isn't accurate enough for registering use of a particular road so they never can build such a system. Let alone the privacy implications.

[Rufus]

As for health... You realize the whole point of this is to improve your health, right? The stuff about limiting dust emissions in particular is very important to anyone who suffers from allergies.

You mean the bit where they specifically say they will not include stringent particle emission limits because the finer filters needed to achieve them require more power to force air through them. The power limit they have included means people with allergies can't buy a fast clean vacuum, they have to buy a slow clean vacuum if anyone bothers to make them. In other words fuck health - CO2 emissions are more important.

[Rufus]

Green energy is considerably more than 1 or 2% more expensive than conventional energy so you are not buying green electrons any more than I am on a standard tariff. You are not 100% green.

1-2% on my bill, not 1-2% wholesale cost. The bill is more than just the wholesale cost + percentage. You keep making these claims but provide no evidence. Can you explain why Ecotricity is not 100% green as they claim, for example? If you can I'll submit a complaint to the Advertising Standards Authority and demand a refund on my bills.

You are the one making claims about buying 100% green electricity, a claim so blindingly obviously bullshit that I would not even dignify it by asking for supporting evidence.

If you can buy 100% green electricity for a 2% premium why can't we all - 2% on bills is enough to get rid of all the nukes and fossil fuel burning power stations right?

And an appeal to the authority of the ASA - just lol. http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/burger-me-we-need-to-scrap-the-asa/15615 - the latest from that pack of dishonest slimeballs.

[miguelvp]

For your information, the car is the #1 milking cow for taxes here. We pay ridiculous prices compared to almost anyone else. So, the gov't set up a study group led by Jorma Ollila, the ex-chairman of Nokia to investigate usage of GPS technology in monitoring car mileage and levying yet another tax on that. So everyone would be required to install a GPS logger at their own expense and have it regularly report the car movements to some central authority. Now this does qualify as oppressive socialism in my book, and did so for nearly every "ordinary" citizen as well. It really is not anyone's business where i drive my car and when. Those involved tried to assure that the info would only be used to collect mileage info but it is obvious what will happen. There is no promise the gov't can make that would be credible in assuring the privacy of people's movements. That would really be the starting point of a slippery slope towards total control. So if the law is passed my receiver will be permanently temporarily out of order. And so will most others' i gather. So hopefully that brainfart is quietly buried in the archives and never heard of again.

Over here in the NL we heard the same brain fart coming and going. Fortunately GPS isn't accurate enough for registering use of a particular road so they never can build such a system. Let alone the privacy implications.

Make sure you have your reflector vest, the warning sign, the breathalyzer and your GPS, and yeah, they are accurate enough to register what road you are on and you'll soon have to breathe on the breathalyzer to start your car like alcoholics have to. So that insurance companies can keep on reducing payouts

It's not because they care about you, it's just that they are happy charging you your premium that you must pay in order to drive and if they keep everyone safe, then they get to keep it all.

[DoDaMaffs]

Government Advisors.   

Common sense cannot be bought nor taught and unfortunately our
political leaders are generally misinformed by a handful of dickheads.

We here in Australia have just had the proposed Carbon Tax repealed
(rejected) by the current government, I think because our manufacturing
industries are all going to the wall. ( or china ).

When I first heard about the proposed introduction of a Carbon Tax
a few years ago by the previous government, I immediately envisaged
some big ass HEPA filters being fitted to chimney stacks, boy was I wrong.

It was an imposed penalty on the entire country.

And who do we thank............GOVERNMENT ADVISORS.

If I was running the show my first policy would be as follows:

Politicians and their advisors are to be drowned at birth.


Pete for PM

[zapta]

We here in Australia have just had the proposed Carbon Tax repealed
(rejected) by the current government, I think because our manufacturing
industries are all going to the wall. ( or china ).

... and one environmentalist we both know tried to use exaggerations and fear to prevent this political change   ;-)

[FJV]

This kind of thing is one of many reasons I'm glad I don't have to run a business in the EU.

You may not like to hear this, but one of my colleagues, who has been several times to the USA, calls it "The most socialist country I have ever been to".

Makes me think the USA is much more regulated than you all let us know overseas.

Even worse, I would not be suprised, that if we were to look very closely we could find a lot of areas in which the USA is more regulated than Europe.

[nctnico]

For your information, the car is the #1 milking cow for taxes here. We pay ridiculous prices compared to almost anyone else. So, the gov't set up a study group led by Jorma Ollila, the ex-chairman of Nokia to investigate usage of GPS technology in monitoring car mileage and levying yet another tax on that. So everyone would be required to install a GPS logger at their own expense and have it regularly report the car movements to some would really be the starting point of a slippery slope towards total control. So if the law is passed my receiver will be permanently temporarily out of order. And so will most others' i gather. So hopefully that brainfart is quietly buried in the archives and never heard of again.

Over here in the NL we heard the same brain fart coming and going. Fortunately GPS isn't accurate enough for registering use of a particular road so they never can build such a system. Let alone the privacy implications.

your GPS, and yeah, they are accurate enough to register what road you are on

No, GPS is by far not accurate enough to determine which road you are on. Navigation systems use complex routines to match where you are going to a spot on the map.  I used to work for a research company where we would have people drive in a car amongst other data the GPS location was also recorderd. The GPS coordinates where all over the place when plotted on a map. I've registered errors up to +/-150 meters (say 450 feet). That is the difference between driving on a road parallel to a highway or the highway itself. GPS can be accurate and in most cases it is but there is absolutely no guarantee so it makes it legally useless for determining how much road tax you have to pay.