EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[Nerull]

This tread is turning into a anal discussion on so many levels!   

I am sincerely trying not to be like that. I've been trying --mostly-- to be polite, level-headed, and positive, but keep getting negative  and low-brow responses.

That can happen when you barge into a discussion and berate people for not trying something they have already tried.

[akohler]

This tread is turning into a anal discussion on so many levels!   

I am sincerely trying not to be like that. I've been trying --mostly-- to be polite, level-headed, and positive, but keep getting negative  and low-brow responses.

That can happen when you barge into a discussion and berate people for not trying something they have already tried.

I really wasn't berating anyone.

Correction:
I did berate those who did get a little hostile towards me.

[lpickup]

This tread is turning into a anal discussion on so many levels!   

I am sincerely trying not to be like that. I've been trying --mostly-- to be polite, level-headed, and positive, but keep getting negative  and low-brow responses.

That can happen when you barge into a discussion and berate people for not trying something they have already tried.

Apologize in advance for the meta discussion, but I feel I have to step in here...

I don't believe he "barged" in and "berated" people.  He simply came in, posted a comment directed towards Bob & Co, figuring they would read it, and then all holy hell rained down from the masses accusing him of everything up to and including being a Batteroo shill.   If you think his defending his post is "berating", everyone needs to take a step back and see how they have possibly overreacted to what at worst is a naive (and albeit already tried) suggestion and check the tone of their own messages.  I've seen this group pounce on several people before...some were justified like Davey Jonez...but other times it's like a Lord of the Flies like thing, and sorry, but sometimes you're just too quick to rush to judgement (e.g. the reporter lady that everyone thought was going to trash Dave, but ended up trashing Batteroo after all).

I suppose I'll take heat for this as well because I've primarily (maybe even only) posted in this forum, despite the fact that I've watched all of Dave's videos and am a true fan.  I just don't have the time (or in a lot of cases knowledge) to participate in other discussions, and this (and a couple of other) thread is my sole exception.  However, I felt I had to step in and stand up for a guy who I really think is well intentioned and is somehow getting trashed for it!

[akohler]

This tread is turning into a anal discussion on so many levels!   

I am sincerely trying not to be like that. I've been trying --mostly-- to be polite, level-headed, and positive, but keep getting negative  and low-brow responses.

That can happen when you barge into a discussion and berate people for not trying something they have already tried.

Apologize in advance for the meta discussion, [...]

I appreciate that.

[Zbig]

This tread is turning into a anal discussion on so many levels!   

I am sincerely trying not to be like that. I've been trying --mostly-- to be polite, level-headed, and positive, but keep getting negative  and low-brow responses.

That can happen when you barge into a discussion and berate people for not trying something they have already tried.

Apologize in advance for the meta discussion, but I feel I have to step in here...

I don't believe he "barged" in and "berated" people.  [..]

[akohler]

Damn. Homer has really changed throughout the years.

[Godzil]

Quote from: EEVblog on Today at 11:01:04 AM

Those cartoon videos, 
Who made those?

Come on now, those cartoon vids are as classy, informed, and scientifically based as this classic:
https://youtu.be/brdmnUBAS00

(I've linked to that video before, but it's so good it bears repeating, IMO)

This is called "electrical tape" because it conduct electricity?


WHAT?

[ccs46]

everyone including the family dog and the goldfish gets named as a plaintiff.

What about the monkey?

[Brumby]

I don't believe he "barged" in and "berated" people.  He simply came in, posted a comment directed towards Bob & Co, figuring they would read it, and then all holy hell rained down from the masses accusing him of everything up to and including being a Batteroo shill.   If you think his defending his post is "berating", everyone needs to take a step back and see how they have possibly overreacted to what at worst is a naive (and albeit already tried) suggestion and check the tone of their own messages.

The issue is not so much one of someone posting a suggestion that has been tried before (however a bit of reading of the thread before doing so would have made it obvious) - but that, when advised their idea has been tried on more than one occasion in a variety of ways and by various people, they continue to defend and justify themselves.  Such a response is very often seen being presented by puppets of the malefactor, since they press the matter well past the point where logic indicates retiring from the debate.


While pre-reading was the appropriate preparation before posting, when the history was explained, the correct response would have been a simple apology.

[Brumby]

Actually, if the pre-reading was too much, a better approach would have been to ask the question: "Has this been tried?"

[EEVblog]

So last update was now 2 months ago.
And it was 11 days ago when Bob said there would be an update "Within a few days".

[Muttley Snickers]

So last update was now 2 months ago.
And it was 11 days ago when Bob said there would be an update "Within a few days".

They don't seem to get the message really do they ?.

Perhaps that may change once they realise that some pissed off people are starting to put up videos in relation to the lack of communication and more importantly a product.

Text only video #1.


Text only video #2


It's not me, just some random finds.

[dcac]

I'm naively hoping Indiegogo finally decided to cancel Bateroos ability to delete comments, we'll see...

[ChunkyPastaSauce]

So last update was now 2 months ago.
And it was 11 days ago when Bob said there would be an update "Within a few days".

Bob Roohparvar stated "next week or so" for an update 27 days ago (frame #5)......
He went silent on IGG 11 days ago promising again an update "within a few days" (last frame)

[rrinker]

 Note also they said they would ship in March, and in that one reply Bob slipped in "ship in late April" IF Bob even bothers to offeres any more information, any bets on if they change again and say it will be available in May?

[rich]

Late April is 5 weeks away which seems a long time. I have an open question for those with large scale production experience - if they were tooled-up and ready to press 'Go' on production how long would a run of 100k batterisers likely take?  I'm guessing no more than a few days, but my guessed assumptions were:

200 boards per panel with one new panel rolling out every 2 minutes.  < 17 hours for 100k
Metalwork stamped from reel of steel at 1 per second. < 28 hours for 100k
Hand assemble board to metalwork? Maybe 20 per minute for single worker? < 84 hours for 100k
Apply prominent QC passed sticker and place in presentation case < 28 hours

[McBryce]

It depends what your supply per day goal is after ramp-up. Any production step can be paralleled, so almost any quantity is possible. If they really intended to storm Walmart and Co. with these, then they may have planned to produce more?

McBryce.

[Fungus]

And sorry for being hostile to you, Fungus.

Don't ever be sorry for doing that.

(not that I'd even noticed)

My only motivation is to find some constructive way to encourage Bob to restart communication with his Indiegogo contributors. Almost all batteriser-related commentary is on the Indegogo forum and this one. I didn't contribute to the campaign, so this forum is my only means of encouraging people to help.

What can he communicate?

"Sorry, guys, the whole thing is a scam..."

If you're not seeing that then you didn't look at the evidence very closely. Start with the "Garmin GPS" video, that's been thoroughly debunked (and their follow-up video to try and explain it was a complete joke).

[rich]

It depends what your supply per day goal is after ramp-up. Any production step can be paralleled, so almost any quantity is possible. If they really intended to storm Walmart and Co. with these, then they may have planned to produce more?

Any Walmart plans probably went south a long time ago.

I assumed no parallelism to establish an upper bound on duration for 100k assuming the line wasn't stalled. If 100k units get shipped to backers that would give the earliest date production really started. They did promise to air freight the Kickstarter units at great expense to themselves, so they will not be any shipping delays to account for as we have Bob's word on that.

Even if they don't ship, I'm also genuinely curious in learning more about larger scale production hence the thought experiment.

[McBryce]

I doubt they could build 100k parts without taking a serious financial hit. They have only two choices, mass production (and sales) or nothing, and the first choice doesn't really stand a serious chance at this stage. I assume they know this though.

McBryce.

[SeanB]

From what I have seen online of Chinese production processes the 100k will take around 2 weeks from initial start to finished product ready to leave in containers, though you will get an initial start of the rollout after day 2, when the first boards arrive from the PCB fab, the first steel is punched and painted, and the assembly line starts up to run the order. One line in a factory with 50 others, and working the whole day before going home to the dormitory to sleep. Not Foxconn, but one of the myriad other white goods assembly plants. So after a week you would be at the 50k mark, and at the end of the second week you could have a trained staff who will probably be able to do 60k per week on the single line.

Not going to be a likely scenario though. If there was a product there would have been sampling already of the finished part, or at least a  few engineering prototypes that are either fit models that do not work, or engineering models which are larger to get final design and layout correct, then a second run of engineering samples that are both functional and dimensionally correct, so they can do final QC specifications and product assembly runs with. They have nothing so far aside from the monkey.........

[Macbeth]

and working the whole day before going home to the dormitory to sleep. Not Foxconn, but one of the myriad other white goods assembly plants.

Sleep? Wasted floor space using dormitory's? Thankfully Bob doesn't actually have a real product, because I am pretty sure he would otherwise insist on all factory labour using some of those cheap "legal high" stimulants that are flooding out of China right now, just to keep the staff at their soldering stations 24/7. I mean if Apple get away with the Foxconn stuff then Batteroo can easily go a couple of magnitudes worse.

Luckily for Chinese workers there is no such product being forced on them. Perhaps North Korea has some prison labour camps that Bob would be interested in if he ever comes up with the goods. After all, he can then blame Obamas espionage against DPRK when they don't work. 

[EEVblog]

More restless natives, I think it's now officially a flood.
Nothing Batteroo can say now will stop the lynching.

[Halcyon]

As much as Roohparvar is ignoring everyone's questions, something tells me we haven't seen the last of 'Batteriser' just yet. What's the bet that one day they pull the pin and actually admit to everyone that their project failed due to "unforeseen technical problems" or some other bollocks (which forum members and Dave have been saying all along) and as a "gesture of good faith" ship out a Batteriser sleeve (albeit without any electronics) in the form of a poxy tie clip or something so they can honestly say they delivered "something" despite their original product being a total and utter failure from the start.

[Brumby]

An out and out admission is unlikely, IMHO, but I could be wrong.  I could also win the lottery.

I strongly suspect that the Batteroo desire will be that things go 'quietly into the night'.  But if there was any farewell speech, it would be to blame 'other factors' ... and those will be vague enough to be difficult to challenge.