EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[miguelvp]

A month late is nothing in the crowdsourcing world. After three you'll start seeing more noise specially if they don't give updates.

I do think they'll ship, then again I've been wrong plenty of times, just ask my wife.

What will they ship? well we will see how it does perform using up that 2% of battery left in one battery, because of course one will die before the other and people don't bother checking which one dies, therefore the whole problem of disposing batteries with unused energy, and this product won't solve that because people will replace both anyways.

[PeterL]

A month late is nothing in the crowdsourcing world. After three you'll start seeing more noise specially if they don't give updates.

The delay is not the biggest problem here, it's the way they communicate. They promised a new update, and we can already write a summery:

Hi,
Here's another update to tell you that we're working hard and making good progress.

Unfortunately we encountered a problem [INSERT A GOOD SOUNDING BUT NON-CHECKABLE REASON FOR DELAY HERE] But we are working hard on a solution, and expect to start shipping in a couple of weeks.
Thank you so much for your understanding, sincerely, Bob

Meanwhile more and more people are complaining about their communication. Here's another one that might disappear in a couple of hours:

[AmmoJammo]

I've just realised I can no longer comment on their facebook page 

[Galenbo]

I just noticed that the new video says to insert the Batteriser when the device battery is low on juice. Why not from the beginning with fresh batteries?

"Most profiles" here agree that it's almost certain, that most of the "powerded devices" will work less long, when put from the beginning.

1)As most already contain a DCDC converter, adding a second one in the form of a batteriser will reduce efficiency.
2)There is also no possibility to let the batteriser know "device is off/stdby", so it will work 24/7, draining the battery, also when off.

[Smokey]

I think it's pretty funny how riled up backers get in the comments, making demands for more information and such. 

One simple web search before they dedicated any money would have showed it was actually bullshit and the chances of the thing working as advertised was zero.  Well they ignored all that and now they are all suddenly shocked to find there are other problems and they aren't getting honest updates! 

Just think!  The guys that lied about the performance of their product aren't being 100% honest and transparent about why it didn't ship on time.  Shocking!

With the number of scam or never released high profile crowd-sourced projects eclipsing the number of successful honest ones, there is no reason to be surprised anymore if you don't end up getting the thing you were described.

[meeder]

I think it's pretty funny how riled up backers get in the comments, making demands for more information and such. 

One simple web search before they dedicated any money would have showed it was actually bullshit and the chances of the thing working as advertised was zero.  Well they ignored all that and now they are all suddenly shocked to find there are other problems and they aren't getting honest updates! 

Just think!  The guys that lied about the performance of their product aren't being 100% honest and transparent about why it didn't ship on time.  Shocking!

With the number of scam or never released high profile crowd-sourced projects eclipsing the number of successful honest ones, there is no reason to be surprised anymore if you don't end up getting the thing you were described.

I always stick to: "If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is...".

[Fungus]

I've been banned from their Facebook page. I can't comment any more... 


(Luckily I've got dozens of facebook accounts.  )

[Godzil]

I was thinking, backer may have lots of difficulty to ask for compensation if the thing will never exist or being sent, but.. What about people that preorder it on the  website?
This is clearly a commercial there, and people are BUYING goods, so, they are covered by the normal laws, unlike backers which are basically only "money giver with a potential gift"

I wonder how many people have bough their product on the website, after the indiegogo campaign...

[meeder]

I've been banned from their Facebook page. I can't comment any more... 


(Luckily I've got dozens of facebook accounts.  [emoji14]opcorn: )

I am banned as well after posting just one comment...

[gore]

I haven't been following this topic for a while. Just took a peek at the Indiegogo campaign of Batteriser. There's an interesting comment on top. Kind of implies that some people are getting their devices. Either that, or the guy is preparing in advance for the most likely outcome - disappointment. Or maybe he's referring to their 'non-performance' when it comes to delivering the goods. 

[free_electron]

that most of the "powerded devices"

next step : powdered devices ... you need to grind them to dust before they are compatible

[g.lewarne]

I haven't been following this topic for a while. Just took a peek at the Indiegogo campaign of Batteriser. There's an interesting comment on top. Kind of implies that some people are getting their devices. Either that, or the guy is preparing in advance for the most likely outcome - disappointment. Or maybe he's referring to their 'non-performance' when it comes to delivering the goods. 

pretty sure he just means "non performance" of the organisation, rather than the actual product.  They have confirmed they still haven't shipped anything

[timb]

I haven't been following this topic for a while. Just took a peek at the Indiegogo campaign of Batteriser. There's an interesting comment on top. Kind of implies that some people are getting their devices. Either that, or the guy is preparing in advance for the most likely outcome - disappointment. Or maybe he's referring to their 'non-performance' when it comes to delivering the goods. 

pretty sure he just means "non performance" of the organisation, rather than the actual product.  They have confirmed they still haven't shipped anything

Maybe we should sell them some of those "natural enhancement" pills that I keep seeing on commercials at 2AM. They claim to help with performance.

There would be a bit of irony in that. (Not the "Rain on your wedding day" kind of irony, but the "Selling Snake Oil to Snake Oil Salesmen" kind."

[g.lewarne]

I haven't been following this topic for a while. Just took a peek at the Indiegogo campaign of Batteriser. There's an interesting comment on top. Kind of implies that some people are getting their devices. Either that, or the guy is preparing in advance for the most likely outcome - disappointment. Or maybe he's referring to their 'non-performance' when it comes to delivering the goods. 

pretty sure he just means "non performance" of the organisation, rather than the actual product.  They have confirmed they still haven't shipped anything

Maybe we should sell them some of those "natural enhancement" pills that I keep seeing on commercials at 2AM. They claim to help with performance.

There would be a bit of irony in that. (Not the "Rain on your wedding day" kind of irony, but the "Selling Snake Oil to Snake Oil Salesmen" kind."

800% more performance with the Batterider !

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Hi group,

A while ago I built a small boost converter to explore the behaviour of the Batteriser.

The details can be found in this thread:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/new-project-a-batterruser/msg739648/#msg739648

These were used in this video, made by forum member 5ky, to check the Garmin GPS.



When I built these boost converters, I made the circuit small, but not small enough to fit on top of an AA cell.

Today I decided to explore if the circuit could be built small enough. Using 0402 capacitors and resistors I can get the circuit to fit the space:





This circuit will deliver about 500mA from a 0.9V cell

Most of the components are around 0.7mm tall. The inductor is the biggest challenge it around 1mm tall. With a 0.8mm circuit board, the total height is 1.8mm

Can you see any benefit to building this ?

I have got no idea on how to get this on top of an AAA cell !!

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

[lpickup]

Can you see any benefit to building this ?

Yeah, apparently you can sucker VC's into giving you $1M for it, and another $300K from crowdfunders...

Go for it!

[g.lewarne]

It would be a total arse, but you could reduce the height if you cutout holes for the components and mount them inside the "height" of the PCB

[Brumby]

It would be a total arse, but you could reduce the height if you cutout holes for the components and mount them inside the "height" of the PCB

I'm thinking that's not a bad idea....

Just cut a square hole in the PCB big enough for a soft 'press fit' of the inductor and just solder the 0.2mm exposed portion to the copper trace - something like you would do to make a solder bridge.  If you were to do something similar for other components, the maximum height is now 1mm.

[Godzil]

You need to be sure that your fab precision is correct, or you would have a lot of failed PCB

[g.lewarne]

It would be a total arse, but you could reduce the height if you cutout holes for the components and mount them inside the "height" of the PCB

I'm thinking that's not a bad idea....

Just cut a square hole in the PCB big enough for a soft 'press fit' of the inductor and just solder the 0.2mm exposed portion to the copper trace - something like you would do to make a solder bridge.  If you were to do something similar for other components, the maximum height is now 1mm.

As long as he calls it the Didderiser

[Smokey]

I haven't been following this topic for a while. Just took a peek at the Indiegogo campaign of Batteriser. There's an interesting comment on top. Kind of implies that some people are getting their devices. Either that, or the guy is preparing in advance for the most likely outcome - disappointment. Or maybe he's referring to their 'non-performance' when it comes to delivering the goods. 

pretty sure he just means "non performance" of the organisation, rather than the actual product.  They have confirmed they still haven't shipped anything

Maybe we should sell them some of those "natural enhancement" pills that I keep seeing on commercials at 2AM. They claim to help with performance.

There would be a bit of irony in that. (Not the "Rain on your wedding day" kind of irony, but the "Selling Snake Oil to Snake Oil Salesmen" kind."

I don't think they need any enhancement.  You have to already have pretty big balls to pre-sell $394,649USD worth of product you know isn't going to work as advertised.

[EEVblog]

Hi group,
A while ago I built a small boost converter to explore the behaviour of the Batteriser.
The details can be found in this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/new-project-a-batterruser/msg739648/#msg739648
These were used in this video, made by forum member 5ky, to check the Garmin GPS.
When I built these boost converters, I made the circuit small, but not small enough to fit on top of an AA cell.
Today I decided to explore if the circuit could be built small enough. Using 0402 capacitors and resistors I can get the circuit to fit the space:
This circuit will deliver about 500mA from a 0.9V cell
Most of the components are around 0.7mm tall. The inductor is the biggest challenge it around 1mm tall. With a 0.8mm circuit board, the total height is 1.8mm
Can you see any benefit to building this ?

Well, you don't have to worry about a patent infringement suit from Batteroo

[EEVblog]

Most of the components are around 0.7mm tall. The inductor is the biggest challenge it around 1mm tall. With a 0.8mm circuit board, the total height is 1.8mm

Cut out a slot to fit the inductor into.
Or if you want to get fancy, perhaps even a multi layer PCB and use the inner layers for the inductor, with a low profile ferrite pressed into slots. Performance might suck though.
Most houses will do you a 0.5mm PCB without any problems. Thinner is also possible using prepreg as the board.

[drussell]

I have got no idea on how to get this on top of an AAA cell !!

I'm not convinced that Batteroo have any idea how to do that, either! 

[onlooker]

Or, they may use flex PCB and possibly with the sheet metal that contacts the B+ terminal as support.