FranLab is getting evicted

[Nominal Animal]

Airing of the SAME problems time and time again over years in public simply undermines Fran IMO.

Doesn't seem to have. And this has been kind of a catch-all thread for things that a lot of us deal with. Lab spaces, storage, rent vs buy, income sources, expense management, taxes etc.

Yep.  I for one have reflected a lot more on my own options for the future because of this thread.

Fran is one of us.  Sure, she has her own "odd" requirements/limitations, but so does everyone else.  I definitely do.  Others, like Dave, have family, which sets its own requirements/limitations, for example.  Seeing how hers affect her options and choices in the course of a few years, is a very useful yardstick for reconsidering ones own (especially to consider if they are real, or just assumed requirements, in my own case).

Thus, I definitely find this thread a useful catch-all for the abovementioned things, that just happen to bite Fran frequently due to her requirements/limitations.

[magic]

FYI, there is a new platform coming that will actively not invite political/controversial channels at all. Guess who's one of the first sign-ups 
https://tokin.video/

This means it will be infested with SJWs. There is nothing controversial about their content, it's just basic (modern) science
Headquartered in the US and run by tech bros, you just know what to expect.

[EEVblog]

FYI, there is a new platform coming that will actively not invite political/controversial channels at all. Guess who's one of the first sign-ups 
https://tokin.video/

This means it will be infested with SJWs. There is nothing controversial about their content, it's just basic (modern) science
Headquartered in the US and run by tech bros, you just know what to expect.

They are going to focus on "science, electronics, tech, health, film, music, gaming and sports."
99% chance of the platform becoming a nothing burger of course, but zero downside for me.

[mendip_discovery]

FYI, there is a new platform coming that will actively not invite political/controversial channels at all. Guess who's one of the first sign-ups 
https://tokin.video/

This means it will be infested with SJWs. There is nothing controversial about their content, it's just basic (modern) science
Headquartered in the US and run by tech bros, you just know what to expect.

They are going to focus on "science, electronics, tech, health, film, music, gaming and sports."
99% chance of the platform becoming a nothing burger of course, but zero downside for me.

I quite like the,

What are Tokins?
Tokins are limited. All users will be granted an equal amount.
Tokins are NOT a currency.
Tokins are NOT a cryptocurrency.
Tokins will never be bought or sold.

It's not like firms would pay users for thier votes or setup plenty of shill accounts to up the tokins.

[EEVblog]

It's not like firms would pay users for thier votes or setup plenty of shill accounts to up the tokins.

https://www.google.com/search?q=buy+youtube+likes

[.RC.]

After being on internet forums for a couple of decades I have found likes and dislikes when they were introduced are always abused heavily.  It seems a lot of people can not handle someone having a differing opinion to themselves and just hammer that dislike button.  This creates problems when you get rewarded for "likes". It also creates problems that people will actively post stuff to get dislikes. On top of that you just end up with echo chambers.

More and more I now see a "thank-you" option, which seems to stop the serial clickheads.

Probably one thing that amuses me about forums that are single topic threads is how it brings people together, that had they met in person would not acknowledge each other or even perhaps hate each other. We could have some hard core <insert political party here> lovers that hate on <insert other political party here>, but they get along fine talking electronics with people who are the opposite because they do not know they are the opposite.  It is like christmas day in the trenches in WW1.  Both sides started a harmless soccer game in no mans land against each other. 

Fantasy optimism I know.  But perhaps, one day. 

[Simon]

I have youtube premium because apart from hating adds I think it's value for money and would like the creators to get something

About 1/4 of my Youtube review comes from Premium subscribers. I have it too, no ads is great, and part of that money goes to videos that I watch that month.

too bad "someone" insists on odysee exclusives , and no I am not signing up to their pro thing until they deal with the rightwing nutcase conspiracy theorists that litter their platform.

Someone has to help build alternative platforms to Youtube. I decided to step up to the plate.
"rightwing nutcase conspiracy theorists" on Odsyee? Have you seen Bitchute or Rumble?
At least Odysee's top 100 channels is absolutely littered with electronics, science, tech, and space channels, many of whom I convinced to join. I see literally zero content I don't want to see on Odysee, I'm logged in and only see the channels I follow, easy.
Also, almost all those same "nutjob" channels are also on Youtube.
The #1 channel on Odysee is Veritasium, a science channel.
I bet there are zero of those channels on Bitchute and Rumble's Top 100 channel list.

FYI, there is a new platform coming that will actively not invite political/controversial channels at all. Guess who's one of the first sign-ups 
https://tokin.video/

Yea, I guess so. what concerns me is that although I may not see them as it learns what I don't like people do find them and sadly - humans, and worse, it affects us all as a society. I'd make this argument for any of the platforms, until one takes the lead in throwing out the garbage no one will. It's got nothing to do with free speech, people telling lies is not the same as free speach.

[MK14]

(Please take this summary, as very approximate, it is difficult to be precise and I don't want to give away too many spoilers) Fran discusses, her recent experiences (somewhat bad/rude), with the somewhat 'younger' generation.  Discussing how modern life has changed, compared to a number of decades ago, and speculates on how modern life is turning out, for some people, now and in the future.

[Quarlo Klobrigney]

It's a world where men have been removed from the home and replaced with technology and online gaming.
No discipline no consequences, anything goes let's do it in the road.


I am old enough to have gone to Woodstock and glad I didn't.
At this rate this world is done, stick a fork in it.


Meanwhile don't live in an S-Hole like Philly because there are places where time and society have not moved forward to such a degraded place as Philly. I suggest you seek such a place to have a better life.

[Quarlo Klobrigney]

No, but it goes back to the 1800's as far as any metropolis, as seen in every movie about it, and recently on YouTube showing the filth, drugs, and crime et. al.
I came from such a northern city, to be unnamed, just as bad only with no industry to speak of since the 80's.
Now with the lack of resources to maintain its own infrastructure, crime, drugs, murders, despair, etc. are rampant.
I will never go back.

[EEVblog]

Yea, I guess so. what concerns me is that although I may not see them as it learns what I don't like people do find them and sadly - humans, and worse, it affects us all as a society. I'd make this argument for any of the platforms, until one takes the lead in throwing out the garbage no one will. It's got nothing to do with free speech, people telling lies is not the same as free speach.

We saw the problem with that approach during covid.
Countless people lost way more than a platform to speak their mind.
Sorry, you can't just ban people "telling lies" without the system being absolutely corrupted to the core.
I like the new Twitter approach of Community Notes.

[magic]

Takes some guts of them to say "we're unaffiliated with crypto/web3" and then use a word "tokinomics" which is one letter and 0 syllables away from hit crypto term "tokenomics".

Favorite argument of little children and Silicon Valley businesses: I am not a taxi service, because I say so.

Maybe that's why they are so big on all the identity politics and self-identification stuff

[Simon]

Yea, I guess so. what concerns me is that although I may not see them as it learns what I don't like people do find them and sadly - humans, and worse, it affects us all as a society. I'd make this argument for any of the platforms, until one takes the lead in throwing out the garbage no one will. It's got nothing to do with free speech, people telling lies is not the same as free speach.

We saw the problem with that approach during covid.
Countless people lost way more than a platform to speak their mind.
Sorry, you can't just ban people "telling lies" without the system being absolutely corrupted to the core.
I like the new Twitter approach of Community Notes.

When you have someone claiming to be a doctor telling people that a facemask will kill you due to the CO2 you will breath back in you have a problem. If thunderfoot can find out that the guy was actually struck off for malpractice I think youtube can. But thunderfoot's video explaining the truth was taken down while the fake doctors video remained despite his best attempts to explain it to youtube. These are the same facemasks that surgeons wear for hours to do operations. You need humans in the loop, algorithms can't do it and a free service cannot pay enough quality humans to moderate.

[nctnico]

Yea, I guess so. what concerns me is that although I may not see them as it learns what I don't like people do find them and sadly - humans, and worse, it affects us all as a society. I'd make this argument for any of the platforms, until one takes the lead in throwing out the garbage no one will. It's got nothing to do with free speech, people telling lies is not the same as free speach.

We saw the problem with that approach during covid.
Countless people lost way more than a platform to speak their mind.
Sorry, you can't just ban people "telling lies" without the system being absolutely corrupted to the core.
I like the new Twitter approach of Community Notes.

When you have someone claiming to be a doctor telling people that a facemask will kill you due to the CO2 you will breath back in you have a problem. If thunderfoot can find out that the guy was actually struck off for malpractice I think youtube can. But thunderfoot's video explaining the truth was taken down while the fake doctors video remained despite his best attempts to explain it to youtube. These are the same facemasks that surgeons wear for hours to do operations. You need humans in the loop, algorithms can't do it and a free service cannot pay enough quality humans to moderate.

The core problem is that the general public wants answers. Doesn't matter if the answer makes sense or is right/wrong. In the past this was filled in by religion. During the past decades modern media like TV and more recently, internet has taken over that role.

Just look at TV when a dissaster happens. You get an endless amount of talking heads, most of which are self appointed experts, spouting their wild theories & speculations simply to give people the sense the situation is being handled.

[Nominal Animal]

Thing is, Simon, there is no such thing as scientific truth.

I mean, in 2012 a respectable article found that only a small fraction of the scientific findings in preclinical cancer research could be verified.  We're talking about 20% or less; with 80% or more being basically junk science.

More specifically, doi:10.1111/jebm.12424 states that while there is not enough clinical or preclinical data wrt. SARS-CoV-2, "RCT evidence for other respiratory viral illnesses shows no significant benefit of masks in limiting transmission but is of poor quality and not SARS-CoV-2 specific".

Surgeons and dentists do not wear masks to avoid spreading or contracting viral infections or aerosols, they use them to avoid ingesting and emitting droplets and gobbets of bodily fluids.

I have seen at least one Finnish report (comparing nurses using various protective gear) that indicates you need FFP2 or better to make a difference wrt. bacterial or viral (aerosol) transmission, but I can't be arsed to find a link right now.  Proper hand hygiene had a bigger effect than surgical masks.

The point is, science is a method, not a set of facts; and you cannot use science to say someone is lying and someone else is speaking the truth.  You can only reflect on the current understanding, which is not necessarily the prevalent scientific consensus because the latter is indirectly heavily skewed by research financing.  (That is, researchers prefer to avoid controversial opinions because that can limit their future research funding –– unless they're either getting paid by someone to make the controversial claims already, or they have what they consider to be convincing evidence.  So, even though they think something is false, they often avoid admitting it, in order to not risk current and/or future funding.)

[mendip_discovery]

The core problem is that the general public wants answers. Doesn't matter if the answer makes sense or is right/wrong. In the past this was filled in by religion. During the past decades modern media like TV and more recently, internet has taken over that role.

Just look at TV when a dissaster happens. You get an endless amount of talking heads, most of which are self appointed experts, spouting their wild theories & speculations simply to give people the sense the situation is being handled.

We now live in a world of almost instant world wide access to information. This mixed in with fairly easy access to equipment to share into this information means we get a lot of info. Not all of it correct.

I have always got annoyed at the talking heads they get onto the news to talk as they are often hyped up as an expert. But they are just the idiot willing to go on TV. If the reporter asks the right questions they can get trick an expert into a position where they say something that is technically true but without all the info it's just misleading.

There was a show a few years back that was taking the piss out of main TV channels I think it was called channel hopping, anyway it had a segment where a reporter was reporting live on a street where the press claimed that somthing may happen, the whole show would flick back to this street to see a reporter hyping it all up and talking to residents who were just confused, then back to the stuudio where an expert would be asked stuff like could a meteorite hit this street and he would say there is a very very small chance of it happening, so you hear it here first a meteorite could fall on this street.

With regards to a video service I think some of the issues they services have is they like to show you more of the stuff you have just seen, it doesn't take long before you are suckered into a world of very narrow focus. I out of curiosity watched an A T*te video and it's taken a lot of Marco Reps, Dave, ToT and Elctroboom to return my feed back to the way I liked it.

[Simon]

More specifically, doi:10.1111/jebm.12424 states that while there is not enough clinical or preclinical data wrt. SARS-CoV-2, "RCT evidence for other respiratory viral illnesses shows no significant benefit of masks in limiting transmission but is of poor quality and not SARS-CoV-2 specific".

Surgeons and dentists do not wear masks to avoid spreading or contracting viral infections or aerosols, they use them to avoid ingesting and emitting droplets and gobbets of bodily fluids.

And you have just fallen for the trap. I did not state an opinion as to whether the masks worked or not. I simply stated that there was this nutty guy that was firstly a lyer and a fraud before he even started talking about masks, what he had to say about masks is easily found to be yet another lie. Despite this his videos remained. I know why surgeons wear masks, I never said they wore them to stop the spread of infection. Indeed, when you have just cut someone's body open making them extremely vulnerable, the last thing you want to do is accidentally spit or drool into the wound. And for this reason real doctors not like the fake one making the bullcrap up, do wear these very masks for long periods of time and are able to perform rather delicate procedures.

So it is fairly obvious that this video was pure lies. But youtube let it stand. I am quite happy to accept that wearing a mask may not prevent transmission, but here the fraudulent doctor is not making this sort of reasonable argument. he has come up with something totally different that cannot even stand up to reality.

[Nominal Animal]

And you have just fallen for the trap.

No, my post was about the fact that science provides no facts or truths.  You yourself wrote "thunderfoot's video explaining the truth".  Truth based on what?

I simply stated that there was this nutty guy that was firstly a lyer and a fraud before he even started talking about masks, what he had to say about masks is easily found to be yet another lie.

Problem is, all those adjectives are opinions, not verifiable facts.  Especially "Easily found to be", when I just linked to a recent study that explicitly says we do not have reliable data on this.  See?

Just because you (or I) feel something is obviously true, does not make it objectively true.

My point is, whatever you think is obviously the truth or obviously a lie, is relative to your opinion.  If you start censoring based on that, no matter how good intentions you have, it will sooner or later devolve into a corrupt system where only correct opinions are allowed.  No such censoring system has ever, in the known history, been able to avoid becoming a corrupt one.  Not even the academic ones.

The most dangerous path is when you start censoring content based on the author, instead of the content itself.  It is itself a corrupt method, anti-scientific, because instead of the content of the message, it examines the messenger.

As a media, the only correct option is to avoid having to mark posts "true" or "false"; and not to try and filter or censor them using "truth" as a criteria.

[Nominal Animal]

If we go along the "we'll delete everything that can be debunked, and showed to be unreproducible or contrary to measurable data and statistics", we'll have to start with a large amount of peer-reviewed articles (including 80%+ of all preclinical cancer research), all advertisements, most of opinions, most of newsmedia and news articles, and so on.

It is a beautiful idea, like humans interacting with each other in only positive ways; it's just not a realistic, workable one.

[PlainName]

censoring content based on the author, instead of the content itself

I agree that the ideal is not to do that, but if someone is consistently a nutjob then what are the chances that this one time they will be right? It could happen, but the probability is it won't. If you give everyone the benefit of the doubt then you waste an inordinate amount of resources hiding the better stuff, don't you? And because the conspiracy theory stuff is better received, allowing that to propagate unchecked just increases the number of people taken in.

I think this is one area where we cannot have either extreme, but positioning towards one end is better than plonking down in the middle.

[wilfred]

“Tell me anyway--Maybe I can find the truth by comparing the lies.”   - Leon Trotsky

Maybe he was ahead of his time, or people haven't really changed all that much.

[mendip_discovery]

At the time lots of scientists where shunned becuase they went against the accepted norm. So how do we prevent somone being cancelled on the media platforms just becuase they go accepted knowledge.

I feel I need to quote the film MiB,

A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet.

[PlainName]

Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe

Still is

I think the scriptwriter really meant 'center of the solar system'.

[Simon]

And you have just fallen for the trap.

No, my post was about the fact that science provides no facts or truths.  You yourself wrote "thunderfoot's video explaining the truth".  Truth based on what?

I simply stated that there was this nutty guy that was firstly a lyer and a fraud before he even started talking about masks, what he had to say about masks is easily found to be yet another lie.

Problem is, all those adjectives are opinions, not verifiable facts.  Especially "Easily found to be", when I just linked to a recent study that explicitly says we do not have reliable data on this.  See?

Just because you (or I) feel something is obviously true, does not make it objectively true.

My point is, whatever you think is obviously the truth or obviously a lie, is relative to your opinion.  If you start censoring based on that, no matter how good intentions you have, it will sooner or later devolve into a corrupt system where only correct opinions are allowed.  No such censoring system has ever, in the known history, been able to avoid becoming a corrupt one.  Not even the academic ones.

The most dangerous path is when you start censoring content based on the author, instead of the content itself.  It is itself a corrupt method, anti-scientific, because instead of the content of the message, it examines the messenger.

As a media, the only correct option is to avoid having to mark posts "true" or "false"; and not to try and filter or censor them using "truth" as a criteria.

Will you stop trolling? we are not talking about the effectiveness of masks in the covid context.

fact: man who is not a doctor claims to be one
fact: he lied!
Fact: the already discredited individual claims that a face mask used by doctors all over the world, a commonly used everyday item will basically suffocate you.
fact: what he said is a lie. That is all the point I was making, what the hell are you on about?

So are you saying that there is scientific uncertainty about whether or net an item used for many decades without problem is suddenly going to start sufocating people?

[Quarlo Klobrigney]

Now back to our regularly scheduled program already in progress....