EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[EEVblog]

I still dont understand how a product advertised to deliver 2A initially? then lowered to 500mA, can pass FCC testing at 1.5mA and be legit???

That brings up the point about the current.
Bob is now saying it was only designed for 500mA max current, as if they just realised this now and it's shock. But I'm pretty darn sure that somewhere in these countless pages there is evidence of him saying publicly that it had 1.5A max current output?

[Cyberdragon]

Bob is still claiming a x6 increase in battery life on the golf GPS.
He's going to be very embarrassed when people get the Batteriser and actually test it with the exact same GPS

No...he won't. These jerks have no shame.

[samgab]

I still dont understand how a product advertised to deliver 2A initially? then lowered to 500mA, can pass FCC testing at 1.5mA and be legit???

That brings up the point about the current.
Bob is now saying it was only designed for 500mA max current, as if they just realised this now and it's shock. But I'm pretty darn sure that somewhere in these countless pages there is evidence of him saying publicly that it had 1.5A max current output?

It was so long ago now I've forgotten, but weren't both, or at least one of those Rupedupepoofarharvar brothers PHD's in EE? Or something?

[Brumby]

From the Batteriser site:

Dr. Bob Roohparvar
CEO
30+ years experience in disrupting power management industry at Flextronics, Flexpower, and Broadcom. Redesigned the original iPhone charger, reducing size by over 50%. Holds a Ph.D. in Electrical Engineering from Iowa State University.

Frankie Roohparvar
Chairman & Inventor
Holds over 500 US patents in complex electrical systems, and is currently CEO of Skyera. Holds an M.S. in Electrical Engineeering from Santa Clara University, and M.B.A.s from Columbia Business School as well as Haas School of Business, University of California Berkeley.

Peter Pietrangelo
VP of Product Development
25+ years experience in product packaging design for high volume manufacturing of HDDs and camera modules. Served as Sr. Director positions at DOC and GLO-USA as well as Global Design Manager at VPT/Flextronics taking charge of camera module packaging for over 1,000 camera designs including the iPhone4 and Microsoft Kinect cameras.

Plus
Mitchell Nishi (VP Finance) and Sammy Saloum (Advisory Board - Strategy & Business Development)


No mention if anyone has any High School chemistry knowledge.

[Fungus]

That brings up the point about the current.
Bob is now saying it was only designed for 500mA max current, as if they just realised this now and it's shock. But I'm pretty darn sure that somewhere in these countless pages there is evidence of him saying publicly that it had 1.5A max current output?

Their own FAQ has always said there's no limit:

http://batteriser.com/faq/

[EEVblog]

Their own FAQ has always said there's no limit:
http://batteriser.com/faq/

 
There own FAQ is wrong, andnot accidently wrong, but deliberately wrong and deceiving on the primary parameter required of a product like the Batteriser.
And this is from guys of the supposed technical caliber listed in the post above.
I still gobsmacked at why they would ruin their careers and reputation on this blatant technical rubbish?

[Galenbo]

...You can't have admittedly pre-production silicon prototype issues requiring new silicon and call it shipping problem. It's impossible.
They have design problems after their shipping date, and way after they claimed to be ready for production.

This perfectly lines up with companies that start engineering a product after they claim to have the product.

[AmmoJammo]

Even if it can supply 1.5 amps for the AA version, the D sized version would need to supply around 4 times this to make it suitable for most devices that use D cells...

So even once they've developed the IC for the AA version, they'll have to go through it all again for the C and D sizes! 

Then they'll need prototypes for them all, and FCC/UL testing for each version.

If they aren't shipping what they already have, which is a device that won't do as claimed, I don't think they're going to ship anything, because whats the point in developing another IC, for a device that still won't do as claimed?

[Marcel_X]

From the Batteriser site:

Frankie Roohparvar
Chairman & Inventor
Holds over 500 US patents in complex electrical systems, and is currently CEO of Skyera. Holds an M.S. in Electrical Engineeering from Santa Clara University, and M.B.A.s from Columbia Business School as well as Haas School of Business, University of California Berkeley.

Frankie's got a lot of 'e's in his title M.S. in Electrical Engineeeeeeeering. I wonder....

[g.lewarne]

The comments on their indegogo are heating up my popcorn......shows a'comin!

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Even if it can supply 1.5 amps for the AA version, the D sized version would need to supply around 4 times this to make it suitable for most devices that use D cells...

So even once they've developed the IC for the AA version, they'll have to go through it all again for the C and D sizes! 

Hi,

I thought that the C & D cells would be able to do higher current, but when I checked the datasheets:





I found that the internal resistance of the C & D cells is more less the same as the AA cell.  I thought about this, then I realised it is a resistors in series and parallel kind of thing. As you scale the physical dimensions there is a larger parallel path and longer series path.

So the larger cells don't really help with maximum current, they do have increased capacity.

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

[EEVblog]

Looks like they are deleting comments on Indiegogo. I posted this 19 days ago in this thread:



Now it's gone:

[lpickup]

Latest update today:

We'll have a clearer sense of the exact timeline by next week, so we plan on sending another update regarding shipping at that time.

So by say the end of next week (18th worst case) they have a "clearer sense" of the "exact timeline".
So he's not talking about shipping, he's talking about knowing the timeline.
...

I know you know this, but he's not talking about "knowing" the timeline.  He said he will have a "clearer" sense.  Same old language to give them plenty of wiggle room by next week when the timeline will be "clearer" (maybe they will be able to tell whether it's 2016, 2017 or 2018 they are talking about).

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Hi,

Here is a capture of the comments:



Let us see if they get deleted when they wake up in the West coast.

Jay_Diddy_B

[Brumby]

Censorship is the first sign of someone running scared.

Genuine people address such pressure with acknowledgement and a professional response.

[Fungus]

Letting them down slowly...?

[GNU_Ninja]

Letting them down slowly...?

And we all know Batteroos 'test' on the Garmin GPS was comprehensively debunked earlier in this thread by forum member 5ky. 

[onlooker]

"have a clearer sense of the exact timeline..." could just mean they will know they have to have more unknown delays.

"We are still committed to ..." is not very reassuring. The use of the word "still" sounds like they are going to drop the commitment at any moment, and, then, take a different path, such as refund all backers.

[CrashO]

Reading the comments on indiegogo   

[lpickup]

Letting them down slowly...?

I like how he phrases that such that it appears that 2X is the MINIMUM amount of improvement you'd see.

[SpidersWeb]

I'm waiting for the complaints from people who discover a shorter battery life. I'm looking forward to the shipping date.

If they did a CR2032 holder with a diode and boosted the output to 3.6 that would've been neat (for me anyway) or a a clip on step-up so people could easily run Arduino or similar projects off a single AA with minimal fuss. But attempting to extend the life of junk batteries which are probably going to leak soon anyway - meh.

[AmmoJammo]

From their facebook page...



"for the new year" doesn't that imply this year? It does to me anyway...

[SL4P]

Notwithstanding the fact the product is based on false assumptions, Batteroo looks like the perfect example of graduate, boardroom 'engineers' that have never actually done any practical work, hence no experience in testing and engineering for production.  A lot of talk, but no delivery.

I doubt their initial intent was to defraud, but they simply had very little idea what they were talking about from day one.

About now, they should setup a roadside lemonade stand that offers to swap out the batteries in children's' toys!  ...but health certification for the 'Kool Aid' substitute may be difficult with the track record of Batteriser...  at least 'staying on the shelf' due to delayed shipping, it will last much longer than real 'Kool Aid' !

Perhaps one of the backers could ask which 'products' were tested at 2, 4, 6 times extended operation, and the testing methodology.

Of course, these tests are irrelevant with new chip design/silicon coming 'soon'...
Sigh.

[Marcel_X]

Ali is getting frustrated...

[EEVblog]

From their facebook page...

How can they go from "We'll have a clearer timeline by end of next week" to now making out it's all hunky-dory and a good chance of shipping before new years?
Crazy.