EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[Muttley Snickers]

There is no "e" after the 175 gm, it does say on the rear label this package is sold by weight not volume, some settling of the contents may occur during shipping.

I got done like a dinner, scandalous affair...... 

[Joule Thief]

I started to put the shopping away and found that one bag of chips was a bit lighter than the other so I weighed them both, one was at 177 grams and the other at 152 yet the packages say 175 grams.

make sure there isn't a 25 gram mouse packed in the first bag 

[PA0PBZ]

I got done like a dinner, scandalous affair...... 

I feel your pain, what a lousy way to start the new year!

[SeanB]

Packed by a multihead form fill and seal machine. You probably got a bag where all the heads filled low mass, so it could not get a solution in the desired mass range for the pack, so dumped all that were ready to complete the cycle on schedule. It runs multiple weighing hoppers, and fills them from a central feed, then per cycle ( that is the determining factor, all heads that indicate settled and ready are used for the fill cycle in progress while the others are either filling up after release or are in a settle time regime to get a final mass) calculated which heads need release to fit in the desired set point and allowable variation.

Slower machines use a vibratory feeder and a hopper, and use variable feed speed to get a rough fill then a fine fill to desired mass, but then your cycle time is going to be longer as you wait for a feeder to go ready then dump it. The multihead will at any time have 2 cycles in process, the pack being filled and the next pack dropping down the feed tube, with the cycle being fast enough that as the fill reaches the base of the tube a bag is dropping down to relieve it, and then the sealer jaw closes to form the end seals for 2 bags and separates them with a serrated cutter during the seal cycle.

A complex mix of programmable logic, mechanical design, hot metal, rubber feed belts, servo motors ramping up from zero to 100Hz in 5 cycles on a variable speed drive ( and if you have a few of these machines you do common the motor DC bus to them all to save having to use a 1kW brake resistor block per machine) and PID loops which have to all be set up, along with some high resolution mass measurement in a very noisy environment. When they work they work well, but when they sort of work it can be a pain to get them running properly again.

Here is a new base sealer, you can see the parts and operation, though the multihead filler is not shown. Nice machine, hate to think of the price though, but I can get a locally made one for around $20k.



The multihead filler, showing the computer controls and the method of operation. Not chips but friut, but same principle.

[Muttley Snickers]

Yes but technically I still got diddled.

I cant link it from here and I didn't mean to take the thread off topic but there was a recent TV show down here called Mega Factories which was a guided tour of the Frito Lay plant in the US, mouth watering stuff, anyway it's on Youtube.

My complaint about the chips is not that we are out by 23 grams it's that the manufacturer is and they should have it down pat by now, this is only one packet out of who knows how many, worth a call to be fair I think.

Anyway companies that make false claims in regards to promised values and in particular the lack of required chips need to be held accountable, maybe I'm not that far off topic after all.

[Simon]

try this for being scammed on food:

[Brumby]

If it's still sealed, then you have a demonstrable complaint.  Make a call.

You might get nothing out of it other than the satisfaction of getting it off your chest, but they might offer you something.


Many years ago I had a tin of John West tuna that had far more liquid than normal, so I rang them.  They sent a rep to my work who checked it out and agreed there had been more 'cook out' than there should be - and he exchanged the tin for a bag of half a dozen other John West products.  No fuss.  No argument.  Just good PR.

[Simon]

Well I'm pretty sure this is not the first one I've had, I know that they are all like this, It's the usual scam and I'm surte they will hide behind the usual "photo is a serving suggestion", I will just never buy food their again and not much of anything else, had some mains socket timers from them fail as well.

[cs.dk]

Many years ago I had a tin of John West tuna that had far more liquid than normal, so I rang them.  They sent a rep to my work who checked it out and agreed there had been more 'cook out' than there should be - and he exchanged the tin for a bag of half a dozen other John West products.  No fuss.  No argument.  Just good PR.

I've tried similar with "Beauvais" many years ago. Bought some sliced cucumber salad in a supermarked, which was not so crisp as they used to be. They really was poor, did not eat them.
Complained to the factory and got a hell of a big package with allmost all their products in, as a compensation. Thats customer care

[Simon]

Well in this case any such action would just be damage control, customer care would be to not sell this rubbish in the first place. If they were to offer free replacements etc I would tell them to stuff it and instead refund every transaction they could to people who bought these scams.

[cs.dk]

Well in this case any such action would just be damage control, customer care would be to not sell this rubbish in the first place. If they were to offer free replacements etc I would tell them to stuff it and instead refund every transaction they could to people who bought these scams.

I don't know if you were refering to my post;
But they usually make some really good products - And when they fail (it may be once in my lifetime to return a thing to them), they compensate great. I still buy their products.

[Simon]

yes which is why I said "in this case" which I meant to refer to my case not yours

[cs.dk]

yes which is why I said "in this case" which I meant to refer to my case not yours

Ohh sorry... Language barriers sometimes

[Simon]

I didn't explain it well to be honest.

[quad]

Meanwhile, in the Batteriser office...

"Quick, the forum guys are distracted! Quietly change the shipping date to March 2016! Downgrade to the current output to 550mA! Remove all references to anything higher! Post a vague status update that we're still on track to ship units out 'for the New Year'!"

[Simon]

Meanwhile, in the Batteriser office...

"Quick, the forum guys are distracted! Quietly change the shipping date to March 2016! Downgrade to the current output to 550mA! Remove all references to anything higher! Post a vague status update that we're still on track to ship units out 'for the New Year'!"

I'm more than distracted from this batterizer thing, I know little about it and have nothing to loose from it. how have they managed to rile up the battery manufacturers ?

[EEVblog]

how have they managed to rile up the battery manufacturers ?

a) Using a name that is deliberately similar to Energizer
b) Making ridiculous performance claims they can't possibly meet, hence potentially exasperating issues with name confusion in a)
c) Claiming that I and other bloggers are paid by "big battery"
d) Claiming that batteries are tossed out with up to 80% of energy left in from most products, and hence, perhaps by association that "big battery" is somehow complicate in this "secret".

It might ultimately ruin our fun getting our hands on a Batteriser, but I don't blame Energizer for suing them at all.

[rich]

Are we sure this kerfuffle is a 'suing'?
I thought it was an opposition to a Trade Mark application?

[quad]

A couple of people on Facebook are asking the hard questions...

[RonZ]

Dave
Loved the video well done. I can across this while seeing what info was around for single cell boost converters like the one I bought http://www.trademe.co.nz/electronics-photography/other-electronics/electronic-components/other/auction-1006395137.htm (advertised on eBay as well) cost $2.90 NZ I expected it to be junk and it was. The ripple output voltage is huge I measured this as outputting 1.2 volts pp delivering 5 volts of output into a 47 ohm resistor. This corresponds to a current a bit over 100mA. So if the Batteriser is anything like this piece of junk. I wouldn't even contemplate using it. Incidentally this video persuaded me to join the eeVBlog forum.

[Kalvin]

Dave
Loved the video well done. I can across this while seeing what info was around for single cell boost converters like the one I bought http://www.trademe.co.nz/electronics-photography/other-electronics/electronic-components/other/auction-1006395137.htm (advertised on eBay as well) cost $2.90 NZ I expected it to be junk and it was. The ripple output voltage is huge I measured this as outputting 1.2 volts pp delivering 5 volts of output into a 47 ohm resistor. This corresponds to a current a bit over 100mA. So if the Batteriser is anything like this piece of junk. I wouldn't even contemplate using it. Incidentally this video persuaded me to join the eeVBlog forum.

Have you tried to place a capacitor to the output. It looks like the board itself doesn't have decent capacitor at the output, so I guess that the board assumes that the device to be powered will contain applicable capacitor.

[Fungus]

Dave
Loved the video well done. I can across this while seeing what info was around for single cell boost converters like the one I bought http://www.trademe.co.nz/electronics-photography/other-electronics/electronic-components/other/auction-1006395137.htm (advertised on eBay as well) cost $2.90 NZ I expected it to be junk and it was. The ripple output voltage is huge I measured this as outputting 1.2 volts pp delivering 5 volts of output into a 47 ohm resistor. This corresponds to a current a bit over 100mA.

I've got a few of those. Yes, they struggle to produce more than about 30mA with only a single battery as input. A capacitor would help with the ripple, but...only up to a point.

They work much better with 2 batteries as input and very well indeed with 3 batteries - I've powered many Arduino projects with one of those and a 3xAA battery pack.

Remember: Batteriser doesn't boost to 5V, it only boosts to 1.5V. That's a big difference, over three times less.

Proportionally speaking Batteriser is more like using your booster with 3 batteries.

[nixxon]

What is Worth noting about the address? Looking at the satelite photo, there is a lot of tarmac (asphalt) on the property and some tall trees as well. But again, what is Worth noting?

(I don't know why, but some Words get Capital letters automagically when writing a post)

[miguelvp]

What is Worth noting about the address? Looking at the satelite photo, there is a lot of tarmac (asphalt) on the property and some tall trees as well. But again, what is Worth noting?

Qualcomm

[mikerj]

It's also the address of SK Telecom Americas, and they seem to have some kind of start-up funding program.