Author Topic: Dilbert loses newspapers, publishers, distributor, and possibly its website  (Read 80778 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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Of course you are. You are Australian. Every Australian I've talked with about free speech agrees they aren't really free to express themselves while they are in Australia. I'm not saying that isn't also true for people from many other nations, but I've found Australians particularly bothered by this.

At least we not being arrested for hate speech, or the cops knocking on the door to "check your thinking" because you insulted someone :P

It's correct that we don't have constitutionally protected free speech (or a bill of rights), we do have actually have free speech:
https://www.ag.gov.au/rights-and-protections/human-rights-and-anti-discrimination/human-rights-scrutiny/public-sector-guidance-sheets/right-freedom-opinion-and-expression
But yeah, but we do have some really shitty laws, like being able to lock up journalists, and the whole covid thing, amoung others. But overall, "free speech" is pretty decent here.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Trump's famous interview where he muses about injecting disinfectant to cure COVID is a good example of what I'm talking about.

Bringing it back to Adams, he has a famous list of hoaxes:
https://twitter.com/ScottAdamsSays/status/1631295633138016259
 

Offline james_s

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Of course you are. You are Australian. Every Australian I've talked with about free speech agrees they aren't really free to express themselves while they are in Australia. I'm not saying that isn't also true for people from many other nations, but I've found Australians particularly bothered by this.

At least we not being arrested for hate speech, or the cops knocking on the door to "check your thinking" because you insulted someone :P

It's correct that we don't have constitutionally protected free speech (or a bill of rights), we do have actually have free speech:
https://www.ag.gov.au/rights-and-protections/human-rights-and-anti-discrimination/human-rights-scrutiny/public-sector-guidance-sheets/right-freedom-opinion-and-expression
But yeah, but we do have some really shitty laws, like being able to lock up journalists, and the whole covid thing, amoung others. But overall, "free speech" is pretty decent here.

I was really shocked to learn the UK had arrested several times more people for speech violations than Russia, that's truly terrifying that a modern, civilized nation would be doing that. The law is so broad and vague that any one of us could be charged.
 
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Well, at least in Australia, you can quote the bible without getting prosecuted.  Not so here in Finland (see Päivi Räsänen).  She was one of the original proponents of the hate speech laws now being applied against her, repeatedly.

(I don't particularly like her, but it does take quite a weird worldview to interpret her words as 'incitement' to anything.  She always says that Christians/Lutherans especially should be compassionate and accepting towards every individual, and not judge them, since everyone has their own flaws.)

It is quite funny that even though we just set a law that lets everyone change their gender just by self-reporting (at most once per year), and we still have various gender quotas in statutes, asking the question "what is a woman" –– especially in the sense that what is the legal definition of female, since Finnish language has only one word for "sex" and "gender": "sukupuoli" –– is considered deplorable far-right/alt-right trolling.

There is only one use of "sukupuoli" in the Finnish law, encompassing all four aspects: legal sex/gender ("juridinen sukupuoli"), biological sex ("biologinen sukupuoli") dictated by genetics, gender ("sosiaalinen sukupuoli"), and gender identity ("sukupuoli-identiteetti").  I'd like to know –– and also discuss/debate, because I only really know how to learn by asking questions, because otherwise I can only parrot statements given to me axiomatically instead of integrating them into my understanding –– how all of this is supposed to work, both legally, and socially.  No can do: I'm told I'm a right-wing troll by even suggesting such a discussion.  Dammit!
 
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Online ebastler

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Bringing it back to Adams, he has a famous list of hoaxes:
https://twitter.com/ScottAdamsSays/status/1631295633138016259

The fact that Scott Adams frames all of these as "hoaxes", despite the fact that many of them are well-documented to be true (including proper context), is bad, but unfortunately what I expect of Adams these days.

The fact that you buy into this, and repeat the "hoax" framing, is disappointing. You are using this forum to push your own opinions and agenda. Not what I would expect from a good host -- and specifically a host who has the power to determine which threads get locked, which posts deleted, which users banned.
 
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Offline AVGresponding

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I was really shocked to learn the UK had arrested several times more people for speech violations than Russia, that's truly terrifying that a modern, civilized nation would be doing that. The law is so broad and vague that any one of us could be charged.

Your citations for this blatantly ridiculous claim?
nuqDaq yuch Dapol?
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Offline BrianHG

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Bringing it back to Adams, he has a famous list of hoaxes:
https://twitter.com/ScottAdamsSays/status/1631295633138016259

The fact that Scott Adams frames all of these as "hoaxes", despite the fact that many of them are well-documented to be true (including proper context), is bad, but unfortunately what I expect of Adams these days.
Yes, a few of them are well 'videoed' as they were news broadcasted live and and available on youtube.

For example, yes, Trump on live TV did suggest and tell a medical professional that maybe we should inject bleach to get rid of covid.

And I did think that Dave was referring to some more important credible scientific errors in news past, not these BS politically charged mumbo jumbo issued listed in his attached link.  Trying to defend or acknowledge that junk shouldn't be worth anyone's time.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2023, 09:16:54 am by BrianHG »
 
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Online Nominal Animal

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For example, yes, Trump on live TV did suggest and tell a medical professional that maybe we should inject bleach to get rid of covid.
I could not find any clips where he suggested anyone do that, only clips where he suggested that doing something like that should be looked into.

Are you sure you remember the clip right, and are not just parroting a statement oft repeated you like?  Again, to make sure your emotions don't color your view, consider reviewing the clip again, but imagining the speaker is someone else; and see if you still truly believe in the above statement you made.

Besides, if adults are so stupid that when they hear someone talk about injecting disinfectant, go and kill themselves with bleach, I consider it a win for the species: Darwin award worthy.  Same goes with cats in microwave ovens, repeated strain injury warnings on keyboards, and so on.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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The fact that you buy into this, and repeat the "hoax" framing, is disappointing.

I'm at least somewhat trying to keep this thread Scott Adams focussed, unlike most here it seems.

Quote
You are using this forum to push your own opinions and agenda. Not what I would expect from a good host -- and specifically a host who has the power to determine which threads get locked, which posts deleted, which users banned.

I'm a user like anyone else. I have opinion like anyone else. But not once, in 12 years have I ever banned anyone from this forum for having an opinion I don't like.
And do you really think I'm pushing "opinions and agenda" here? Really? You have absolutely no clue how restrained I am on here, nor do you have a clue what my "agenda" is.
Someone has to keep this forum from turning into shit, because I can assure you if there weren't a few mods here trying to at least keep the wheels from falling off the billy cart, then it would have died long ago.

How about you actually post something on topic in this thread instead of mind reading me. Another thing Adams teaches BTW, brining it back on topic again. Let's see you actually try...
 
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Offline PlainName

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Trump's famous interview where he muses about injecting disinfectant to cure COVID is a good example of what I'm talking about. Here is someone with a huge audience and power casting doubt on the very scientific method that you and I advocate for. It's a classic tactic of trying to make an unqualified, uninformed, & unscientific opinion (Trump's) equal to that of real scientific researchers. That's the kind of testing and questioning that I'm against.
I understand, but still disagree.

He was still "musing" or "asking questions", not suggesting people actually do so.  "It would be interesting to check that.  It sounds interesting to me." (Followed by a shrug.  I just reviewed the YT video.)

That is Trump's MO, presumably used to prevent any negative comeback. "Some smart people have said he fiddles with kids. Maybe he does - I don't know." Of course, he says that kind of thing not because anyone has actually said what he purports but to plant the idea, and then reiterates that he's not saying that "but maybe there's something in it".

Specifically to the bleach thing, there is surely a time and place to ask things and suggest things, and when speaking as The Official Word in front of the entire world is surely not it. He did it then to a) bring his idea forward where it couldn't be dismissed, and b) make sure everyone knew he owned it. But, again,  he gave himself an out, just in case.

Trump is actually a great example of how 'just asking' is really not that at all.
 
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Online Nominal Animal

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That is Trump's MO, presumably used to prevent any negative comeback. "Some smart people have said he fiddles with kids. Maybe he does - I don't know." Of course, he says that kind of thing not because anyone has actually said what he purports but to plant the idea, and then reiterates that he's not saying that "but maybe there's something in it".
This is what I call "social games" (or word games), trying to manipulate others, and I hate it.

In my opinion, the correct response is "Who are those smart people?" and "Why do you think it could be possible there's something in it?".
If they are not able to make a coherent argument as to the latter, I do love to restate the question, replacing the asker in it, and follow up with a reference to psychological projection – because it surprisingly often is.  You know, make them define their question precisely, since they are asking it; and not let them get away with fuzzy emotive insinuations.

If the question itself has merit, it can be defended –– but only if someone challenges the question, instead of just canceling the asker.

Specifically to the bleach thing, there is surely a time and place to ask things and suggest things, and when speaking as The Official Word in front of the entire world is surely not it.
Sure; those speaking to millions do need to be held to a higher standard than those who just talk amongst friends/colleagues.

Trump is actually a great example of how 'just asking' is really not that at all.
Just like leading questions –– "have you stopped beating your wife yet?" ––, there are insinuations that are technically phrased as questions, that either cannot be answered, or are not intended to be answered.  They do need to be challenged; but I still insist that shunning or cancellation is always the wrong solution, evil.

However, the exact line between genuine and non-genuine questions is very difficult to draw.

I would prefer that anyone asking questions that can be interpreted as non-genuine, were challenged directly: pressed to precisely define or rephrase the question to make it unambiguous and answerable, with a basis as to why the question should be considered in the first place.

For example, in my hypotethical capital punishment law case, I would simply answer that there being currently more than one repeated murderer who have killed again soon after being released, some people see capital punishment as the most efficient way to stop them from repeating their offenses, but I believe they forget the practicalities of such a punishment as evidenced by the statistics in other countries that do apply capital punishment.

In the case of politicians talking bullshit –– which happens fairly often at least here, on all sides of the political spectrum ––, I would like for the reporters to confront them about it, and let the people decide for themselves.  What I do not want, is for reporters to decide not to publish it because they do not think people should hear it (either because it is embarrassing to the politician that many reporters support, or because it is an insinuation by a snide/annoying politician and reporters don't want people to mistakenly believe it has merit).

No "cancellation" by any news media or reporter, in other words, no matter how inane their utterances.

Long ago, "news" referred to events, with reporters seeking them out.  Nowadays, "news" refers to emotions celebrities have to events that are happening or have happened, with reporters considering themselves as the filters, the gatekeepers of knowledge, protecting the public from Misinformation and Disinformation.  At least here in Finland, that is.  Hopefully you have better reporters wherever you are...

(As I mentioned to JohanH, Hbl is still pretty good; comparing to Hesari shows rather interesting skew in the latter... Similarly for Swedish vs. Finnish-language news reports on Yle, the national broadcaster.)
« Last Edit: March 12, 2023, 12:12:34 pm by Nominal Animal »
 

Online Wallace Gasiewicz

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Trump's quote:



Sounds to me he was talking about lung lavage not "injection"

That is IF he knew what he was talking about, I don't know.

Did not mention bleach.
 
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Online ebastler

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The fact that you buy into this, and repeat the "hoax" framing, is disappointing.
I'm at least somewhat trying to keep this thread Scott Adams focussed, unlike most here it seems.

Talking about Scott Adams is fine, of course. What I find disappointing is that you parroted his "hoax" framing and made it your own that way.

Quote
But not once, in 12 years have I ever banned anyone from this forum for having an opinion I don't like.
And do you really think I'm pushing "opinions and agenda" here? Really? You have absolutely no clue how restrained I am on here, nor do you have a clue what my "agenda" is.

Agree, I do not recall a user being banned for the wrong opinions, only for breaking the forum rules. But I find it notable that threads where certain political opinions are dominant will remain open, while others (with opinions you seem to care less about) get locked. The "diversity, equity and inclusion" thread comes to mind, and this one of course.

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How about you actually post something on topic in this thread instead of mind reading me. Another thing Adams teaches BTW, brining it back on topic again. Let's see you actually try...

You mean, like here? You will also find that all my earlier posts in this thread were on topic.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2023, 01:03:11 pm by ebastler »
 
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Offline m k

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Besides, if adults are so stupid that when they hear someone talk about injecting disinfectant, go and kill themselves with bleach, I consider it a win for the species: Darwin award worthy.  Same goes with cats in microwave ovens, repeated strain injury warnings on keyboards, and so on.

Around here all moose warning traffic signs were earlier placed after an incident.

If oven maker has bought a dead cat you can bet the warning will appear.
Can't verify that old Honda motorcycle mirror had a behind you text but I've seen one once, maybe it was a prank.

One must wonder how much bias is affecting reading.
Is the word changing, longer text clearly is.
Is the non biasing part blurring away.

What should happen to those who are sentenced to be in prison for possessing marijuana in free marijuana state?
Is it same with the "not really questioning" one with substance amount of cargo ship load?
How much more criminal is a slower marijuana possessing runner who couldn't escape to free marijuana state?
Advance-Aneng-Appa-AVO-Beckman-Data Tech-Fluke-General Radio-H. W. Sullivan-Heathkit-HP-Kaise-Kyoritsu-Leeds & Northrup-Mastech-REO-Simpson-Sinclair-Tektronix-Tokyo Rikosha-Triplett-YFE
(plus lesser brands from the work shop of the world)
 

Offline vk6zgo

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Of course you are. You are Australian. Every Australian I've talked with about free speech agrees they aren't really free to express themselves while they are in Australia. I'm not saying that isn't also true for people from many other nations, but I've found Australians particularly bothered by this.

At least we not being arrested for hate speech, or the cops knocking on the door to "check your thinking" because you insulted someone :P

It's correct that we don't have constitutionally protected free speech (or a bill of rights), we do have actually have free speech:
https://www.ag.gov.au/rights-and-protections/human-rights-and-anti-discrimination/human-rights-scrutiny/public-sector-guidance-sheets/right-freedom-opinion-and-expression
But yeah, but we do have some really shitty laws, like being able to lock up journalists, and the whole covid thing, amoung others. But overall, "free speech" is pretty decent here.

I was really shocked to learn the UK had arrested several times more people for speech violations than Russia, that's truly terrifying that a modern, civilized nation would be doing that. The law is so broad and vague that any one of us could be charged.

The problem is, several so-called news outlets are happy to "lie in their teeth", if they can get people with very little knowledge of the country referred to to click onto their page.
 

Offline vk6zgo

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Trump's quote:



Sounds to me he was talking about lung lavage not "injection"

That is IF he knew what he was talking about, I don't know.

Did not mention bleach.

Ok,"bleach" is a bridge too far, but none of the other common externally used disinfectants are safe to use internally, as most people know by the time they are around 7 years old.
(Ok, mercury was used internally for various conditions in the past, but it has very dangerous side effects.)

An adult man making such a suggestion casts severe doubt on his intelligence.
If the things Mr Trump suggested were possible, they would have been used in the past against other quite dangerous lung infections.
 
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Offline Kim Christensen

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Trump's famous interview where he muses about injecting disinfectant to cure COVID is a good example of what I'm talking about.
Bringing it back to Adams, he has a famous list of hoaxes:
https://twitter.com/ScottAdamsSays/status/1631295633138016259

Well, at least Adams provided a tick-box for "Hoax Quiz" as the first selection...  :-DD
 

Online xrunner

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effects.)

An adult man making such a suggestion casts severe doubt on his intelligence.
If the things Mr Trump suggested were possible, they would have been used in the past against other quite dangerous lung infections.

I've asked a few extreme right-wing friends I know about remarks like that from Trump (I usually know better than to expect anything rational from them about him). They say "Oh come on! He was joking to troll the media! (or insert some other group _______").

That's their answer to anything stupid he says - he's just joking.  :-\
« Last Edit: March 12, 2023, 04:28:23 pm by xrunner »
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 
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Online fourfathom

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An adult man making such a suggestion casts severe doubt on his intelligence. [(Trump video)]

IMO there is no debate when it comes to Trump's intelligence.  He has very little, at least not how we would measure it here.  He does have other skills though.

But Scott Adams is correct when he includes the "bleach" thing in his list of hoaxes.  Trump said something stupid (which was not surprising), but he didn't say what has been claimed, and not just in this particular case.
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Offline PlainName

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Quote
But Scott Adams is correct when he includes the "bleach" thing in his list of hoaxes.

Pedantically, yes. But bleach is often shorthand for disinfectant (fewer syllables, easier to remember, etc) and for 'cleaning material' which Trump obviously means (and he does say 'cleaning'). I wouldn't call that misquote a hoax in the accepted sense. In fact, I would say that trying to pass it off as a hoax is actually the kind of straw-clutching that conspiracy theorists like to zoom in on.
 

Offline Kim Christensen

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Besides, if adults are so stupid that when they hear someone talk about injecting disinfectant, go and kill themselves with bleach, I consider it a win for the species: Darwin award worthy.  Same goes with cats in microwave ovens, repeated strain injury warnings on keyboards, and so on.

Somehow I don't think the cat chose to be microwaved... So Darwin doesn't really apply there.  :(
But, there are lots of people like that and they vote too. And then there are those who get caught preying on gullible people...

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When one quarter to three quarters of accepted peer-reviewed publications end up being retracted or unreproducible or heavily revised, I'm not sure scientists' opinions should be considered to have much more weight; especially if they control any kind of research funding.  Money talks, and publishing is necessary for continued grants.

I would like to see a legitimate, non-Fox Newsish, source for this info please.

 

Offline schmitt trigger

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Back to Adams, he said today that he's had more invites on shows than ever. So apart from his syndication financial "cancelling", he's doing phenomenally well. The tide turned very quickly on that one by the looks of it.

Gosh, wish I could be cancelled like that! Who do I have to piss off? 


As many talk show hosts have discovered, being rude and offensive to a certain group, will endear you with opposing groups. Financial success follows.
Of course…There are limits to this, as Alex Jones has found out.
 

Offline PlainName

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I'll be careful to bail at $2m.

OK, $5m just to be comfortable.

Perhaps $10m would be a nice round figure though.
 

Online Nominal Animal

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Somehow I don't think the cat chose to be microwaved...
:palm:  Cats also don't get awarded Darwin awards.

I would like to see a legitimate, non-Fox Newsish, source for this info please.
Demanding for sources when you yourself haven't provided a single one for your own assertions is a well-known extreme-left trolling pattern.

So, you first.  I'll do that right after you provide sources for the assertions you've made in all your preceding posts in this thread.  Just to make sure you're not just trolling me.

Sniping aside, here you go:

For an example of 60% of articles failing reproducibility test, look at psychology (Nature, 2015, cited 56 times).  (And that's not all crappy papers, only the ones whose results cannot be reproduced.)

In preclinical cancer research, 89% of articles failed reproducibility testing, ie. their results could not be reproduced.  Also note that this Nature article has been cited 1851 times, so it is definitely main-stream science, not some lone goofball spouting nonsense. 

Or you could go read about the survey of 1576 scientists Nature did in May 2016.  The initial numbers often cited from that are fractions of scientists having had issues with reproducibility, not fractions of articles, so don't just skim it.  Over half of those reported they believed there was a "reproducibility crisis" going on even then.
 
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Offline nctnico

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But Trump's opinion is not equal, not even close, to that of an expert in the field of study being questioned.
It kind of is. Science is truth by majority. The opinion of a single expert is worth just as much as the opinion of a total idiot. Without a reference (= a panel of experts backed by scientific data), you can't say which opinion is closest to the truth. Absolute truth doesn't even exist.

When the single expert is quoting peer reviewed studies and giving his opinion based on that, and the idiot is just making stuff up as he goes along, it's pretty obvious who you should listen to.
But how do you know that from just watching TV? People like a president are supposed to know what is wise to do and what is not (even if they don't know themselves, they are expected to have knowledgable advisors backed by a team of scientists).

Good information has become a very scarse commodity in today's world. I just read an article that Fox News is being sued for parrotting Trump because it made them more money. The companies that build voting machines are claiming damages worth 3.5 billion US dollars. The presenters knew very well that what they where telling on TV was an outright lie.

And even peer reviewed reports can be completely wrong. Think about the 'study' that claimed measles vaccine caused autism. Turned out to be completely made up by the author but it has done a lot of damage (including deaths).
« Last Edit: March 12, 2023, 06:09:22 pm by nctnico »
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